News Article: Who is the Rangers #1D?

[JohnC]

The problem with Del Zotto is consistency and maybe a little mentally. When he's on his game he's money. Defensively and offensively

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I have doubts.

Doubts about him being healthy?

Fair enough.

But doubts about him being the best when he's healthy? I don't think it's a question really. He's better then McDonagh defensively, and he was on pace to score more then him. Like McD his offense is criminally underrated.

 

[Kwayry]

That's absurd. If they were on the trade market who would get the most back? It would undoubtedly be McDonagh because he's younger, better, and locked up on a good term. If Staal had been healthy the last two years, he'd bring back more too. McDonagh and Staal don't devalue each other by their mutual presences. They both provide a higher level of play than Girardi. Therefore they are more valuable than him.

What's absurd is you keep missing a key point in the argument, I am going to try one last time, if you still don't get it, i will just move on.
He is the only RHD of the 3.
If Staal is injured, McD can play top pairing LD minutes.
If McD is injured, Staal can play stop pairing LD minutes.
In either case, the Rangers will not suffer a major drop in performance from the position.
If Girardi is injured, anybody that replaces him will see a significant drop in the position.

It's a fact of life in hockey that top pairing RHD are rare and are valuable. You may not understand it, agree with it or even care, but it is what it is.
Again, McD and Staal are better Dmen than Girardi, but his position makes him more valuable.

I think Staal might be moved to the right side. Keeps the play to his left, good for his eye.

The last thing i want to do to Staal is make him learn a new position as he recovers.

Your number one D plays the most minutes, hence it's Girardi...

I'd definitely agree with that.
Problem is people have a problem with the label "#1", Girardi doesn't feel like #1, doesn't look like #1 at anything, except where it counts, TOI. But that criteria is low on posters mind.

The problem with Del Zotto is consistency and maybe a little mentally. When he's on his game he's money. Defensively and offensively

That is an excellent point that i agree with. consistency comes with experience and age.
I'd also add confidence. i think a lot of players, including DZ were playing scared under Torts last year.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Saying Girardi is only adequate because he leeches off of other's is completely ignorant.

Insinuating that hes a 1st pairing D-man without Staal or McDonagh is whats ignorant -- it shows an astoundingly simplistic view of analyzing player value.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

insinuating that hes a 1st pairing d-man without staal or mcdonagh is whats ignorant -- it shows an astoundingly simplistic view of analyzing player value.

lmfao

 

[Kwayry]

Insinuating that hes a 1st pairing D-man without Staal or McDonagh is whats ignorant -- it shows an astoundingly simplistic view of analyzing player value.

That's a bizarre statement to make.
He is a first pairing RD on his own, he partnered with Staal and Mcdonagh through the last 3 seasons and played at high level.
What proof you have that he is not?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I just dont get this thread. We dress 6 and among those 6 we have some really good performers like McD, Girardi, Staal, sometimes MDZ and Stralman. My guess is that Moore continues his devel. Point being, they all have strengths and weaknesses but bring slightly diffetent things to the table, whocares who winds up #1? As the roman legion said, strength and unity. I look at the 6, we're blessed if Staal bounces back.

 

[ncmike]

Yes we are.
If you dig a little deeper and watch the games more carefully, DZ is trying to pick corners because there is no slot presence to screen the goalie. Hence the low shooting percentage.

I'd rather he hit the goalie in the chest than miss high and wide. At least there's a chance for a rebound.

 

[ncmike]

There's no way Girardi's more valuable than either one when he's older, not as good, and not under contract beyond this season.

I think what kwayry was referring to was the fact that Girardi can play with either one and have it not diminish his effectiveness. Like certain offensive players only shine playing with certain players. Either case it's nice having three players you can call your #1.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That's a bizarre statement to make.
He is a first pairing RD on his own, he partnered with Staal and Mcdonagh through the last 3 seasons and played at high level.
What proof you have that he is not?

Whenever hes played NHL defense without Staal or McDonagh on his left side.

 

[Kwayry]

Whenever hes played NHL defense without Staal or McDonagh on his left side.

Do you have numbers, stats to support your argument? Who was his partner, what was the drop in production ...?
Or you'd rather keep it vague?

 

[The Gloaming]

In terms of value in a trade, if everyone is healthy, it's, without a question, IMO:

McD
Staal
Girardi

McD is more valuable because he is younger, and has the skating ability of a PMD. Staal is great at shutting it down and using his stick to intercept plays.

And, I know many won't agree, but I don't think that Girardi is on their level. He's prone to brainfarts and bad decisions. Yes, I know we all love him because of his warrior mentality, but that doesn't make him a McD or Staal-level defenseman.

 

[Zil]

What's absurd is you keep missing a key point in the argument, I am going to try one last time, if you still don't get it, i will just move on.
He is the only RHD of the 3.
If Staal is injured, McD can play top pairing LD minutes.
If McD is injured, Staal can play stop pairing LD minutes.
In either case, the Rangers will not suffer a major drop in performance from the position.
If Girardi is injured, anybody that replaces him will see a significant drop in the position.

It's a fact of life in hockey that top pairing RHD are rare and are valuable. You may not understand it, agree with it or even care, but it is what it is.
Again, McD and Staal are better Dmen than Girardi, but his position makes him more valuable.

McDonagh and Staal provide a higher level of play than Girardi does. Therefore taking either one out of the lineup makes us worse than taking Girardi out of the lineup. If Girardi got hurt, then one of the other two could play on the right side or Stralman could be moved up.

I think what kwayry was referring to was the fact that Girardi can play with either one and have it not diminish his effectiveness. Like certain offensive players only shine playing with certain players.

You could say the same thing about any of our RD. Strong skating, positionally sound, all around excellent defensemen make for great partners for anyone. McDonagh and Staal both provide an elite level of play and cover up for a lot of their partners' mistakes.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Do you have numbers, stats to support your argument? Who was his partner, what was the drop in production ...?
Or you'd rather keep it vague?

Why do you need stats to back up what everyone and their mother already knows -- that Dan Girardi is the 3rd best defenseman on this team.

You over-inflating his value because he plays the right side is your problem.

 

[Kwayry]

Why do you need stats to back up what everyone and their mother already knows -- that Dan Girardi is the 3rd best defenseman on this team.

You over-inflating his value because he plays the right side is your problem.

Nobody argued that he he was better than Staal and McDonagh. Your argument was he is a not a first pairing d on his own.

Insinuating that hes a 1st pairing D-man without Staal or McDonagh is whats ignorant -- it shows an astoundingly simplistic view of analyzing player value.

Your problem is you can't back up that bombastic statement with facts.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I haven't gone through the entire discussion, but Girardi has had dominant stretches of hockey. Up until the all star game last season I would have argued he was a candidate for the Norris. He was a complete force. Like I've seen the best of Staal and McDonagh, and Girardi for that period was actually better.

Our defense is criminally underrated, our offense is incredibly overrated.

 

[Ola]

1. Marc Staal //Has played the best hockey of our Ds. Can be a proactive dominating player on he ice. I am not considering where he is today vs two years ago with all the injuries.

2. McD //Very talented, but let's the game come to him defensively a bit too much to be considered elite there and offensively, under Torts he hasn't made a decision on how to move the puck up ice for three years. The absolute best Ds in this league are the Ds who can make those decisions with the puck coming out of their own end. McD really got a non-existing game in that area besides the simplistic pass up the boards on his side of the ice.

McD could become a very very good D in this league (top 10?). But he definitely need to develop a few areas of his game. How fast can he do that under a coach who doesnt handcuff him?

3. Dan Girardi //A great warrior and locker room guy, but he ends up a zone behind the play way too often too be a good nr 1 (which Staal is).

He isnt really good offensively either. A Kevin Lowe of his era. Not a Rob Blake.

 

[darko]

And, I know many won't agree, but I don't think that Girardi is on their level. He's prone to brainfarts and bad decisions. Yes, I know we all love him because of his warrior mentality, but that doesn't make him a McD or Staal-level defenseman.

He's not on their level but he's still a legit top pairing D-man.

 

[KreidertheGlider]

Nobody argued that he he was better than Staal and McDonagh. Your argument was he is a not a first pairing d on his own.



Your problem is you can't back up that bombastic statement with facts.

Well, whenever I see him paired together with MDZ, he looks like ****. In the Boston series, I think he was a -5 in Game 2 because he wasn't paired with Staal or McD.

Girardi is a complimentary player. If he's paired with a defensive juggernaut, they benefit each other. But if he's paired with anything less, his weaknesses begin to show.

 

[Blue Seat Spartan]

By default, I consider Marc Staal to be the Rangers' #1 defenseman solely on his attributes. He has enough size to handle forwards like Milan Lucic, the mobility to close gaps, angle speedy forwards & stand up to them at the blue line, can play physically when the situation demands, and is able to log big minutes (30+ min.) when necessary.

Except for the string of bad luck that Staal has had injury-wise...

This is why it's a godsend to have McDonagh on the Rangers' blue line (thanks, Bob Gainey!). He's the best skating defenseman we've had since Brian Leetch and has the stamina to match. McD's agility enables him to join the rush, hustle back into position, and maneuver opposing forwards into turnovers - sometimes all within the same shift. And after three seasons, McDonagh has only scratched the surface in regards to his offensive potential... While Tortorella reinforced defensive accountability with McD, he neglected to hone the tools that McDonagh possesses which can make him a perennial Norris Trophy contender. I'm certain that with the new coaching philosophy by AV and working with the assistants in Scott Arniel & Ulf Samuelsson, McD can dominate the game at both ends of the rink. He could be an asset that the Rangers & the NHL haven't seen in years: a Puck-Rushing Defenseman (think: Leetch, Coffey, Ozolinsh, etc.) that's capable of starting rushes and finishing them off with goals or assists.

 

[Blue Seat Spartan]

Well, whenever I see him paired together with MDZ, he looks like ****. In the Boston series, I think he was a -5 in Game 2 because he wasn't paired with Staal or McD.

Girardi is a complimentary player. If he's paired with a defensive juggernaut, they benefit each other. But if he's paired with anything less, his weaknesses begin to show.

Don't forget the defenseman Girardi was paired with during his first two seasons in New York: Fedor Tyutin (2006-07, 2007-08). If I remember the scouting profile of Tyutin back then, he was "rock-solid from the back end". And I believe that Tyutin-Girardi was the second defense pairing during those years. Not too shabby.

Girardi was, and always has been, a top complementary defenseman in the top 4 who supplies the grit & shot-blocking component to whoever he has been paired with (Staal, McDonagh) and enables the other to focus on their primary assignments. Style-wise, Girardi's a modern version of Eric Desjardins, able to hold his own and a dark horse Norris Trophy candidate.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

McDonagh, easily.

 

[eco's bones]

Well, whenever I see him paired together with MDZ, he looks like ****. In the Boston series, I think he was a -5 in Game 2 because he wasn't paired with Staal or McD.

Girardi is a complimentary player. If he's paired with a defensive juggernaut, they benefit each other. But if he's paired with anything less, his weaknesses begin to show.

Girardi may not have play that well on his own paired with Del Zotto but Del Zotto played like **** the entire playoffs--didn't matter who with.

1. Marc Staal //Has played the best hockey of our Ds. Can be a proactive dominating player on he ice. I am not considering where he is today vs two years ago with all the injuries.

2. McD //Very talented, but let's the game come to him defensively a bit too much to be considered elite there and offensively, under Torts he hasn't made a decision on how to move the puck up ice for three years. The absolute best Ds in this league are the Ds who can make those decisions with the puck coming out of their own end. McD really got a non-existing game in that area besides the simplistic pass up the boards on his side of the ice.

McD could become a very very good D in this league (top 10?). But he definitely need to develop a few areas of his game. How fast can he do that under a coach who doesnt handcuff him?

3. Dan Girardi //A great warrior and locker room guy, but he ends up a zone behind the play way too often too be a good nr 1 (which Staal is).

He isnt really good offensively either. A Kevin Lowe of his era. Not a Rob Blake.

Girardi--Lowe--not a bad comparison. Lowe was a very good--not elite--player. Steady in his own end, great positionally, physical (a little more combative than Girardi), did not take a lot of penalties.

 

[aufheben]

Why do you need stats to back up what everyone and their mother already knows -- that Dan Girardi is the 3rd best defenseman on this team.

You over-inflating his value because he plays the right side is your problem.

Good question. Girardi is a perfect compliment to a true #1 like Staal or McDonagh.

 

[Bardof425*]

Doubts about him being healthy?

Fair enough.

But doubts about him being the best when he's healthy? I don't think it's a question really. He's better then McDonagh defensively, and he was on pace to score more then him. Like McD his offense is criminally underrated.

No, doubts about who is our #1. I do not think he's better than McD defensively for starters. I think Marc is underrated offensively as is Mac. However, with Mac's superior skating skills he intimidates forwards to cross the ice. Marc has great reach and is stronger than he gets credit for but he can get turned around one on one. Mac is pretty much money in that situation.