Who is the best peak player since 2000?

[Khomutov]

The 09-10 caps were also maybe the most run and gun team since the lockout with ov playing with both backstrom and semin

He played with Backstrom and Knuble, Semin was on the second line.

 

[Realgud]

Lemieux, not even close.

 

[Martinez]

Suppose I could've just made this poll Ovechkin vs. Crosby.

It’s a good idea though. Should do 9 more so we can get the top 10

 

[authentic]

Impressive, but if you want to expand Sakic's peak, you can get the following numbers for him from 1998-2001 (in consecutive games):

295 points in 215 games (1.37 points per game), an 82 game pace of 113 points
123 goals (0.42 goals per game), an 82 game pace of 47 goals
+98

This span includes the '99 season, which is the third lowest scoring season (2004 is the lowest scoring) since 1956.

If you comb through that 215 game stretch and isolate the best stretch of 115 games, you may get numbers similar to Forsberg's during that 115 game stretch you highlighted.

However, while Sakic had a strong 2001 playoffs, his 2000 playoffs wasn't great (just two goals and nine points in 17 games; he was a PPG player in the 1999 playoffs).

165 in 115 is the best stretch I could find for Sakic from the 1998-99 season until 2001-02, and he did it while averaging roughly 3:30-4 more minutes per game, but just over a minute of that was on the PK. Forsberg killed more penalties from 1994-98, then Sakic more from 98-2002.

 

[DCarriere]

Ovechkin AINEC, 2006-2010 with the best peak year (2008).

To put this into perspective, in the 2007-2008 season, Ovechkin finished with 65G+47A = 112 points. The next closest player on his team had 69 points.

 

[daver]

To put this into perspective, in the 2007-2008 season, Ovechkin finished with 65G+47A = 112 points. The next closest player on his team had 69 points.

After 38 games in 2010/11, Crosby had 32 goals, and 65 points, Malkin was next with 32 points.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Too many options here - it's a 3 horse race to me; Crosby, Ovi or Malkin. McDavid might get there, but I don't think we can say that his one season (and 6 games) of dominance is enough to put him with the other three yet.

 

[authentic]

Too many options here - it's a 3 horse race to me; Crosby, Ovi or Malkin. McDavid might get there, but I don't think we can say that his one season (and 6 games) of dominance is enough to put him with the other three yet.

1 season? He has as many Art Ross trophies as Crosby and Malkin already.

 

[Midnight Judges]

There is no case for Crosby over Ovechkin in this poll.

 

[ManofSteel55]

1 season? He has as many Art Ross trophies as Crosby and Malkin already.

So how long do you consider "peak" to mean then? McDavid from three seasons ago wasn't at Crosby or Malkin's peak level. Two years ago he hit another level and would have been in the discussion. Last season after Christmas he certainly would be but his first quarter season was far below that standard because he had the flu for so long. So really we're talking about a season, a season and a half (with a half in the middle of those two which don't reach that level). Look, I'm an Oilers fan but you can't homer yourself so much in these discussions. McDavid is on his way to being ahead of these guys if he gets some team success. But he isn't there yet.

 

[ManofSteel55]

There is no case for Crosby over Ovechkin in this poll.

Sure there is. Ovi's goal socring trumped Crosby's in their peak, but Sid was a far more complete player while being just as dynamic in the offensive zone in every way but shooting.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Sure there is. Ovi's goal socring trumped Crosby's in their peak, but Sid was a far more complete player while being just as dynamic in the offensive zone in every way but shooting.

Crosby wasn't a complete player back then. And it doesn't matter anyway because OV tilted the ice more than Crosby so who cares about how good he was in his own zone.

 

[bobholly39]

To put this into perspective, in the 2007-2008 season, Ovechkin finished with 65G+47A = 112 points. The next closest player on his team had 69 points.

Oh God let's not start with this crap in here...

I absolutely hate that argument. Same reason I felt that the pro-Hall crowd last year was exaggerating big time. 2nd scorer on your team can tell you some things - but it's hardly as big or significant a factor as some people make it out to be.

I have no problem with you picking Ov - nor highlighting his 2008 season as the best peak season based on the merit of his 65 goals and overall play - i just don't think the 2nd place scorer on the team is all that pertinent

 

[bobholly39]

There is no case for Crosby over Ovechkin in this poll.

Depends on the question. Ovechkin's full seasons are certainly more impressive than Crosby's, and in that sense absolutely.

But if we're asking who was "better" at his best - Crosby absolutely has a case. It's a flip of coin kind of situation - but to claim that Ov was a level above Crosby is silly. Now if you're picking OV hands down based on length of peak, or full seasons vs half seasons - that's fine. But if OP isn't putting that limitation, i think they both merit consideration.

As does Malkin.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Depends on the question. Ovechkin's full seasons are certainly more impressive than Crosby's, and in that sense absolutely.

But if we're asking who was "better" at his best - Crosby absolutely has a case. It's a flip of coin kind of situation - but to claim that Ov was a level above Crosby is silly. Now if you're picking OV hands down based on length of peak, or full seasons vs half seasons - that's fine. But if OP isn't putting that limitation, i think they both merit consideration.

As does Malkin.

Crosby has no argument because anyone can get hot for ~30 games a season. Crosby himself is a perfect example in 16/17 when after the first 30 games he was on pace for 60+ goals and people (including you I remember) thought he would get it, but he ended up barely hitting 40. Whoever picks a 40 game Crosby and his fantasy 82 game pace over the actual 82 game production OV and/or Malkin put up is just delusional.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Crosby wasn't a complete player back then. And it doesn't matter anyway because OV tilted the ice more than Crosby so who cares about how good he was in his own zone.

I guess that depends on when you consider his peak, but Crosby was a complete player at a very young age. To suggest otherwise is false. Ovechkin made more highlight reels, sure. But both players dominated in the offensive zone. How are you evaluating who "tilted the ice" more exactly?

 

[Varan]

After 38 games in 2010/11, Crosby had 32 goals, and 65 points, Malkin was next with 32 points.

that was Malkin's worst year statistically

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

There is no case for Crosby over Ovechkin in this poll.

Ah yes. 2008. The season Crosby was the leagues leading scorer 50% through the season before getting injured.
Let me know when Ovechkin wins an art ross in a season where Crosby wasent injured like that. Also let me know when he wins an art ross by 17 points.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Ovechkin fairly easily for me. Malkin's 2009 year was 2nd.

 

[authentic]

So how long do you consider "peak" to mean then? McDavid from three seasons ago wasn't at Crosby or Malkin's peak level. Two years ago he hit another level and would have been in the discussion. Last season after Christmas he certainly would be but his first quarter season was far below that standard because he had the flu for so long. So really we're talking about a season, a season and a half (with a half in the middle of those two which don't reach that level). Look, I'm an Oilers fan but you can't homer yourself so much in these discussions. McDavid is on his way to being ahead of these guys if he gets some team success. But he isn't there yet.

I never said he was ahead if you read the first few posts of the thread, I was only correcting you that he does infact have 2 full seasons of dominance. Peak could be anywhere from 1-3 seasons plus playoffs but he has the 3rd most votes already which is pretty telling.

 

[Bieber fever]

Tim thomas

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Dark horse vote for 2001 Sakic.

 

[Randyne]

Ah yes. 2008. The season Crosby was the leagues leading scorer 50% through the season before getting injured.
Let me know when Ovechkin wins an art ross in a season where Crosby wasent injured like that. Also let me know when he wins an art ross by 17 points.

2007-08
Crosby's numbers before getting injured:
46 GP 63P = 1.37 PPG
He caught hot streak at the first 20 games with 30P = 1.5PPG
After that his PPG dropped to 1.27 = 26GP 33P

Ovechkin's hot points production started on the last 46 games:
46 GP 71P = 1.54 PPG

 

[daver]

that was Malkin's worst year statistically

So? It doesn't change the fact that Crosby was that far ahead of his teammates in scoring that year.

 

[Regal]

Crosby has no argument because anyone can get hot for ~30 games a season. Crosby himself is a perfect example in 16/17 when after the first 30 games he was on pace for 60+ goals and people (including you I remember) thought he would get it, but he ended up barely hitting 40. Whoever picks a 40 game Crosby and his fantasy 82 game pace over the actual 82 game production OV and/or Malkin put up is just delusional.

29 year old Crosby isn't 24 year old Crosby. And we're not talking about random players on a hot streak to start the year, we're talking about a player who is regularly in the league leaders for points and has led the league in PPG multiple times at, playing an age where a peak season would be expected, and not just producing at a high level, but looking like the player who should be scoring at that level while doing it. The Ovechkin crowd likes to paint the regular season as the ultimate goal and that seasonal totals are the only way to judge players, hence Crosby is always a "what if", reducing a player his numbers above all else. But everyone else has seen enough of Crosby to know what he was capable of