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Who is the 2nd best offensive player in the league?

2nd best offensive player in the league?

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b in vancouver

b in vancouver

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
7,845
5,695
dukeofjive said:
Marchand should at least be on the list.
Click to expand...

Marchand, Malkin, Kucherov, McKinnon are probably McDavid's biggest challengers. - Possibly Giroux or even Tavares depending on how that plays out.

As far as Marchand - I don't think people realize how many points he's been putting up for awhile now.
I don't think he's the second best but that line is amazing and if he plays a full season he'll be right up there.
85 points in 68 games last year. If you include the playoffs he put up 102 points in 80 games last season.
Since New Years '17 when Bergeron got healthy and as a somewhat normal calendar cut-off
He's actually 2nd in PPG behind McDavid. And he's actually closer to McDavid than he is to third place Malkin.
It's kind of surprising.
 
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1865

1865

Alpha Couturier
Feb 28, 2005
16,847
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Chester, UK
If only they kept a list of who got the most impact on goals. We could call them points and check who was second in the list last season.
 
Varan

Varan

Registered User
Nov 27, 2016
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Toronto, Ontario
2nd is a toss up b/w malkin and crosby. you're a flat out hater if you assume otherwise. what, kuch is better than malkin because he scored 2 more points? gtfo. i'd take crosby and malkin over kuch/marchand/giroux any day of the week

after that you include everyone else. i'd still take OV after these 3 because of his goal-scoring.

it's the big 4 and then everyone people
 
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Tage2Tuch

Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
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It’s still sid until proven otherwise followed by ovi, and Malkin IMO.


It’s insane how the big three are still the big three arguably) even a decade and a half after being drafted with the exception of the guy who’s number one on the list of course mcD.

But Kucherov is making a statement if he goes on one more year of being in the top five especially in the top 2 or 3, then he will either surpass or Join the 3 I had above behind mcdavid.


Within five years maybe sooner the top 5 point producing Centers could very well be :

Hey
McDavid
Matthews
Eichel
Scheifele
Barkov

(Maybe kuznetsov, but he won’t have Ovi at the top of his game anymore by then) and Kopitar Getlaf and probably Tavares should start to show signs of slowing down in five years for sure, as will backstrom and possibly stamkos among others taking them out of top 5 point producing Centers running. Hischier and Patrick could Make big steps but I could get hit by a car tommorow too. (Don’t even wish for that HF, lol) so we’ll see.

I would say Mackinnon (or even a chance of Barzal) but the other four guys have proved they could go PPG or near PPG for more then one season already, if Mackinnon does it again then that will be two excellent seasons (same with barzal) thus I’d put him in Barkovs spot. (Mackinnon) This isn’t as top players overall this is just points, for top young Centers going fowards or Barkov wouldn’t move at all. Barkov wouldn’t be very far below 6-8 because his defensive play being so strong won’t make him put up the elite of the elite numbers like Bergeron in a way. But still high.


I know that guys like Hughes and Co who haven’t been picked but in only by whos in the league now and it may take awhile for Hughes and lafrenniere etc to join the top because look at all the others who aren’t consensus top five guys yet.

Laine is a winger and besides, not sure if he’s be a top 5 overall of producer in five yeara. He will get lots of goals but if he couldn’t put up more then 26 assists in 82 games with all that PP time with elite point getters, I don’t know if he’s ever a top point guy. Should win and always b me in rocket convos for the next ten years at least, and if the jets ever win a cup he even has a chance at the Cobb Smyrhe.

Anyway that’s how I see it going.
 
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c4rdsh4rk

Registered User
Sep 17, 2007
625
53
injuries aside malkin is the best specimen behind mcdavid. id give 2nd to malkin/crosby.
 
nowhereman

nowhereman

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
9,263
7,657
Los Angeles
Randall Flagg said:
This is absolutely not a tier on its own. There are three players from three different tiers here.

The answer to the thread question is Kucherov.

Malkin, MacKinnon, Crosby in the next tier.
Click to expand...
That’s ludicrous. Kucherov has outscored Crosby once in his career. Now he’s in another tier after one season?
 

GellMann

Registered User
Dec 16, 2014
4,294
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Lancaster NY
nowhereman said:
That’s ludicrous. Kucherov has outscored Crosby once in his career. Now he’s in another tier after one season?
Click to expand...
Considering the once was this year, by 11 points, yes. 82 games is a significant sample size, it's almost 10% of the career of a player who plays 1000 games. Furthermore, if you double the sample size, in three fewer games over the last 164 league-games Kucherov has seven more points. Since Kucherov scored 12% more points than Crosby did in the most recent season of that stretch, the gap appears to be widening, and it's safe to put him on the tier above, especially since that is roughly what separated McDavid from Kucherov (8% of Kuch's points as opposed to 12% of Sid's to Kucherov). If you have Sid in Kucherov's tier then by the same logic Kucherov is more in McDavid's tier than Crosby is in Kucherov's tier.
 
Jeff Babchuk

Jeff Babchuk

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
1,224
70
within my bubble
TheJackAttack said:
It’s still sid until proven otherwise followed by ovi, and Malkin IMO.


It’s insane how the big three are still the big three arguably) even a decade and a half after being drafted with the exception of the guy who’s number one on the list of course mcD.

But Kucherov is making a statement if he goes on one more year of being in the top five especially in the top 2 or 3, then he will either surpass or Join the 3 I had above behind mcdavid.


Within five years maybe sooner the top 5 point producing Centers could very well be :

Hey
McDavid
Matthews
Eichel
Scheifele
Barkov

(Maybe kuznetsov, but he won’t have Ovi at the top of his game anymore by then) and Kopitar Getlaf and probably Tavares should start to show signs of slowing down in five years for sure, as will backstrom and possibly stamkos among others taking them out of top 5 point producing Centers running. Hischier and Patrick could Make big steps but I could get hit by a car tommorow too. (Don’t even wish for that HF, lol) so we’ll see.

I would say Mackinnon (or even a chance of Barzal) but the other four guys have proved they could go PPG or near PPG for more then one season already, if Mackinnon does it again then that will be two excellent seasons (same with barzal) thus I’d put him in Barkovs spot. (Mackinnon) This isn’t as top players overall this is just points, for top young Centers going fowards or Barkov wouldn’t move at all. Barkov wouldn’t be very far below 6-8 because his defensive play being so strong won’t make him put up the elite of the elite numbers like Bergeron in a way. But still high.


I know that guys like Hughes and Co who haven’t been picked but in only by whos in the league now and it may take awhile for Hughes and lafrenniere etc to join the top because look at all the others who aren’t consensus top five guys yet.

Laine is a winger and besides, not sure if he’s be a top 5 overall of producer in five yeara. He will get lots of goals but if he couldn’t put up more then 26 assists in 82 games with all that PP time with elite point getters, I don’t know if he’s ever a top point guy. Should win and always b me in rocket convos for the next ten years at least, and if the jets ever win a cup he even has a chance at the Cobb Smyrhe.

Anyway that’s how I see it going.
Click to expand...


You're drunk..?
o_O
 
Tage2Tuch

Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
9,048
2,658
CAN
Randall Flagg said:
This is absolutely not a tier on its own. There are three players from three different tiers here.

The answer to the thread question is Kucherov.

Malkin, MacKinnon, Crosby in the next tier.
Click to expand...


Mackinnon?

lol.

Do know if you respond to this I’ll know if you haven’t read it, it’s not terribly long, but s bit lengthy as it’s got oh so many good things to show. So please if you do respond take the time to read this or I’ll just ignore, thanks.


If Mackinnon is infact in a tier diffeeent then Matthews,.....then it’s the one below him.

Five seasons and only once has he had a points per game average m over 0.80. You could argue he’s one below Eichel too, unless he comes back with a near PPG season because of Eichel has do lne it in two of his first three years, (0.94, 0.95) both of which playing after a serious high ankle sprain that is known to linger for months. Jack outscored Mack in 16-17 despite playing two less months and Mackinnon got 53 pts in a full year. Lol, Eichel got 57 points in just 61 games kid (all of which right after injury) in his second year. Mackinnon was in his fourth.

Even with eichel being Injured and missing significant time on a dead last offense, HE still has 121 pts in his last 128 games. If you count Mackinnon he only put up 53 pts in 2016-2017 in a full year too when he had that number. Then he puts up his great year 97 last year in 74 games So that means he had 150 pts in his last 156 games. Meaning if you calculate how much it would of been in his last 128 it Would be a lot lower then 150, meaning Eichel May of even had more points (as he has 121) it’s probably close then him during that stretch. It shouldn’t even be close though so even if he’s within 20 it’s still great for Eichel since that’s his only great season. I could compare the two guys first theree year totals pts and it’s not close POints per game wise especially. He’s being blown away by both men when u compare production PPG at similar ages.

Eichel has had his best two seasons (of his 3’) at 0.95 PPG and Matthews has two seasons, one each at 0.84 and 1.02 PPG it should also be noted, these are the first two and three years for both these guys respectively and have played after injuries yet those numbers are still very good. Remember Mackinnon has only had one year in five over 0.80.

Mackinnon for being number 1 overall (and how he’s talked about here) he’s produced from pretty god to average-poor in the first four years of his career. In fact In eichels worst year he still got 3 pts more then Mackinnon in his fourth and eichel was just 19 In his rookie season. In fact Mackinnon has only beaten eichels worst total in 2 of is fiddt 5 seasons, and eichel has had two of his first three seasons with better production then any Mackinnon season except the last when he’s had rantanen. Eichel has never had a teammate or linemate who’s ever out up points like that
Matthews has even scored 40 goals at 18-19 in his rookie season and again hasn’t produced lower then 0.84, a feat so high Mack’s reached it just once in 5 years!

So again Mackinnon has had one year of dominance, and we’re going to be putting this guy in a tier with Crosby above the two others Eich and Matthews who already produce way better most years at a way younger age? Give me a break.

I will say this if Mackinnon comes back with a PPG year or more that would be 2 out of 6 really good seasons, which still isn’t that great but it would take Eichel and Matthews to both fall off the earth this year and Mackinnon to go PPG for him to be ahead of them much less with them.

I have no problem putting him in their “tier” but to suggest he’s ahead of two Guys who have done nothing but produce at a young age after one good season is completely ridiculous. I don’t even care how dominant that season was and it was very. Won’t take that away from him. I just don’t see why his previous four years suddenly count for nothing?
 
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