Prospect Info: Who is our 5th best prospect?

[Frk It]

1. Moritz Seider
2. Lucas Raymond
3. Filip Zadina (by default)
4. Joe Veleno

Who ya got and why?

Click to read more...

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Veleno over Berggren is pretty confusing at this point...

 

[Hen Kolland]

Veleno over Berggren is pretty confusing at this point...

Is it? Berggren has no full seasons under his belt since being drafted, plays a position of depth and lower relative value, and is a very incomplete player outside of the offensive zone.

It just comes down to what you’re voting is guided by. Does Berggren have a higher ceiling the Veleno? Probably, but how is he going to handle the North American game at his size, stature and style of play, does he have a place in the NHL if he’s not given a highly offensive role? There are a lot of questions that he hasn’t even begun to answer.

 

[FabricDetails]

I'm going with the robot (Ras).

 

[Frk It]

Veleno over Berggren is pretty confusing at this point...

Give us more.

 

[r0bert8841]

Veleno over Berggren is pretty confusing at this point...

From the few games I have watched from both in the SHL, Veleno is hands down the better player. Berggren is good offensively but he is still very raw defensively and physically. Veleno on the other hand is a very complete player that also has an offensive upside that just happens to be playing on a pretty bad team. Veleno is way closer to NHL ready. Berggren may have a slightly higher ceiling but he is a long way from reaching it.

 

[RabidBadger]

I went with Johansson this time. I make my picks based on the ceiling projections of prospects. If AJ hits his, he could possibly be a 3 or 4 guy on the backline. I see him as a potential higher value asset in the future than Ras will be.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'd like to make a case for Albert Johansson over Berggren and Rasmussen.

He's a defenseman who is extremely talented. Very good stickhandling and passing ability, sees the ice very well, and is probably the best skater amongst our prospects after William Wallinder. He's still not a very physical player but does play a pretty well-rounded game.

Last year I was pretty happy that we got him in the 2nd round and thought that he's probably a 3rd to 5th defenseman, but now I'm thinking it's 2nd to 4th defenseman on the team. This year he's been taking many more chances offensively and is leading the rush and skating the puck out of his zone a hell of a lot more. He's got good production so far this year as a 19 year old, and pretty good advanced stats. He plays like a less physical Kronwall.

I think that's much more valuable than a guy who projects as a 2nd line winger or a 3rd line center.

 

[Frk It]

I'd like to make a case for Albert Johansson over Berggren and Rasmussen.

He's a defenseman who is extremely talented. Very good stickhandling and passing ability, sees the ice very well, and is probably the best skater amongst our prospects after William Wallinder. He's still not a very physical player but does play a pretty well-rounded game.

Last year I was pretty happy that we got him in the 2nd round and thought that he's probably a 3rd to 5th defenseman, but now I'm thinking it's 2nd to 4th defenseman on the team. This year he's been taking many more chances offensively and is leading the rush and skating the puck out of his zone a hell of a lot more. He's got good production so far this year as a 19 year old, and pretty good advanced stats. He plays like a less physical Kronwall.

I think that's much more valuable than a guy who projects as a 2nd line winger or a 3rd line center.

Still a pretty wide range of outcomes for Johansson, though. But I do like what he brings to the table.

 

[ricky0034]

Johansson

he's still got a long ways to go but to be honest at this point i'm not really sold on guys like Berggren or Rasmussen being THAT much closer to being an impact player anyways so might as well go with the guy I think has the higher ceiling

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Still a pretty wide range of outcomes for Johansson, though. But I do like what he brings to the table.

Here's how I look at it; Johansson looks to me like an 8.0C prospect. I think he's got first pairing upside, the kind of guy that plays 21-23 minutes a game. Is on the point for PP1, plays PK2 some and gets you 40+ points a season. I think at worst he becomes a 2nd pair guy that plays 18-20 minutes a game, runs PP2, PK2 and gets 30ish points a season.

Berggren reminds me of both the good and bad in Gus Nyquist's game. High skill, smooth skating playmaker from the wing. 1st liner on a poor team, 2nd liner on an average to good team, 3rd liner on a contender (Where he was with San Jose when we traded him.) Not strong defensively, and only really effective when scoring.

Rasmussen I think is more likely to become a 3rd liner as a C/W than a 2nd liner. I think he'll be valuable depth but not a piece we can't do without. I wouldn't be surprised if Yzerman moved on from him, same as Svechnikov. Most 3rd liners are replaceable unless they're the kind of 3rd liners who are Selke candidates (John Madden, Mike Fisher, etc.) and these guys are pretty rare.

 

[Frk It]

Here's how I look at it; Johansson looks to me like an 8.0C prospect. I think he's got first pairing upside, the kind of guy that plays 21-23 minutes a game. Is on the point for PP1, plays PK2 some and gets you 40+ points a season. I think at worst he becomes a 2nd pair guy that plays 18-20 minutes a game, runs PP2, PK2 and gets 30ish points a season.

Berggren reminds me of both the good and bad in Gus Nyquist's game. High skill, smooth skating playmaker from the wing. 1st liner on a poor team, 2nd liner on an average to good team, 3rd liner on a contender (Where he was with San Jose when we traded him.) Not strong defensively, and only really effective when scoring.

Rasmussen I think is more likely to become a 3rd liner as a C/W than a 2nd liner. I think he'll be valuable depth but not a piece we can't do without. I wouldn't be surprised if Yzerman moved on from him, same as Svechnikov. Most 3rd liners are replaceable unless they're the kind of 3rd liners who are Selke candidates (John Madden, Mike Fisher, etc.) and these guys are pretty rare.

At worst a 2nd pairing guy....? That's ridiculous, c'mon now.

I can understand where you are coming from with Berggren and Rasmussen.

 

[r0bert8841]

Dang some of you guys are really high on Johansson. Whenever I watch him all I can see is Brett Lebda, servicable but meh.

 

[ridilon]

I just don't understand why a 19 year old kid who puts up 8+10 over 60 games gets no love.

Ras will be a fine NHL player.

 

[Lampedampe]

From the few games I have watched from both in the SHL, Veleno is hands down the better player. Berggren is good offensively but he is still very raw defensively and physically. Veleno on the other hand is a very complete player that also has an offensive upside that just happens to be playing on a pretty bad team. Veleno is way closer to NHL ready. Berggren may have a slightly higher ceiling but he is a long way from reaching it.

I'm not buying that argument, he has been given every chance to produce. Offensively he does not look good on a offensively bad team, that's not a great sign. Veleno is mature and responsible, definitely far more NHL ready, but the reason why I personally would go with Berggren is because I just don't see Veleno's offensive potential. I think there's a world were Berggren never makes the NHL while Veleno most certainly will, but the difference in ceiling is just too high for me personally.

 

[Henkka]

I just don't understand why a 19 year old kid who puts up 8+10 over 60 games gets no love.

Should have DRAFTED VILARDI !!!

OR NECAS !!

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Dang some of you guys are really high on Johansson. Whenever I watch him all I can see is Brett Lebda, servicable but meh.

I recall Bert Lebda consistently making these plays all the time.



And I totally remember Bart Lebda doing this as well.


Lebda was GOAT.

 

[lilidk]

So far no love for Mastersemone, I think going to improve his stats dramatically this season

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

At worst a 2nd pairing guy....? That's ridiculous, c'mon now.

I can understand where you are coming from with Berggren and Rasmussen.

I don't think it's ridiculous to expect he'd be a 2nd pair defender at worst. His skillset doesn't really loan itself to a bottom pairing, so if he's not making it as a 2nd pairing guy then he likely busted. Just as Berggren is either a scoring winger or bust.

Plus Hakan thinks he's got real high end upside and even said he could be the best of them all. (Our 2019 draft picks.) I don't think he's better than Seider, but I do think he's our 2nd best defensive prospect.

 

[Frk It]

I don't think it's ridiculous to expect he'd be a 2nd pair defender at worst. His skillset doesn't really loan itself to a bottom pairing, so if he's not making it as a 2nd pairing guy then he likely busted. Just as Berggren is either a scoring winger or bust.

Plus Hakan thinks he's got real high end upside and even said he could be the best of them all. (Our 2019 draft picks.) I don't think he's better than Seider, but I do think he's our 2nd best defensive prospect.

I’d reserve that kind of floor for guys drafted top 5-10. Real blue chip kind of guys.

I think to expect that “at worst” for a guy drafted where Johansson was, with 0 games in the AHL or NHL yet, is absurd. But people typically overestimate the floor for prospects on this site all the time.

I agree Johansson has upside. I disagree entirely on what his floor is.

 

[Ezekial]

And I totally remember Bart Lebda doing this as well.


Lebda was GOAT.

Lebda pinched and scored a goal in his life.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I don't think it's ridiculous to expect he'd be a 2nd pair defender at worst. His skillset doesn't really loan itself to a bottom pairing, so if he's not making it as a 2nd pairing guy then he likely busted. Just as Berggren is either a scoring winger or bust.

Plus Hakan thinks he's got real high end upside and even said he could be the best of them all. (Our 2019 draft picks.) I don't think he's better than Seider, but I do think he's our 2nd best defensive prospect.

Worst would be him not making the NHL. The way you said it sounds like he is guaranteed to be at least a 2nd pairing guy.

 

[r0bert8841]

I'm not buying that argument, he has been given every chance to produce. Offensively he does not look good on a offensively bad team, that's not a great sign. Veleno is mature and responsible, definitely far more NHL ready, but the reason why I personally would go with Berggren is because I just don't see Veleno's offensive potential. I think there's a world were Berggren never makes the NHL while Veleno most certainly will, but the difference in ceiling is just too high for me personally.

Veleno is still creating chances, its just not ending up on the scoresheet. He looks good out there, I would say he is the best forward on his team. He is not the guy who is going to drive the scoring on an NHL line, but if you put him with some highly skilled players, he won't look out of place either. He will be doing the dirty work on the boards (which he is good at) , play solid D, and looking for scraps around the front of the net. Veleno will end up with points because he will be able to hang with top players, I envision him closer to Filppula or a Dan Cleary.

Berggren is way too 1-Dimensional right now. While offensively he does have a higher ceiling, he has a long way to go if he doesn't want to end up another Pulkkinen.

 

[izlez]

These conversations are ridiculous.

 

[ricky0034]

I just don't understand why a 19 year old kid who puts up 8+10 over 60 games gets no love.

Ras will be a fine NHL player.

almost as many points as Abdelkader and Glendening

should probably just induct him to the hall of fame right now