Who has had a worse offseason? Vegas or Colorado

[Love]

Vegas had the worse off-season and IMO are pretenders. They will never win anything with those centres. They’ll continue to be talked about as if they’re one of the elite cup contending teams in the league but they won’t get it done when it matters most.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I love how the narrative is that Kuemper and Gru are equal or that Kuemper is better after this trade was completed. HF just voted a few days ago and this was the result. I pushed for Kuemper before Gibson was voted in, but it's always hilarious to see the narrative change so quick just because he's at a more popular team now.

1) Andrei Vasilevskiy (89.9%)
2) Connor Hellebuyck (59.7%)
3) Carey Price (47.7%)
4) Marc-Andre Fleury (41.3%)
5) Tuukka Rask (35.1%)
6) John Gibson (38.3%)
7) Semyon Varlamov (29.2%)
8) Philipp Grubauer (34.5%)
9) Robin Lehner (26.7%)
10) Juuse Saros (28.9%)
11) Igor Shesterkin (28.3%)
12) Thatcher Demko (25.0%)
13) Jacob Markstrom (44.4%)
14) Ben Bishop (31.3%)
15) Darcy Kuemper (36.0%)
16) MacKenzie Blackwood (Tiebreaker: 60.6%)
17) Jordan Binnington (19.4%)
18) Ilya Sorokin (17.1%)
19) Linus Ullmark (16.7%)

This is brilliant! Kudos.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I love how the narrative is that Kuemper and Gru are equal or that Kuemper is better after this trade was completed. HF just voted a few days ago and this was the result. I pushed for Kuemper before Gibson was voted in, but it's always hilarious to see the narrative change so quick just because he's at a more popular team now.

1) Andrei Vasilevskiy (89.9%)
2) Connor Hellebuyck (59.7%)
3) Carey Price (47.7%)
4) Marc-Andre Fleury (41.3%)
5) Tuukka Rask (35.1%)
6) John Gibson (38.3%)
7) Semyon Varlamov (29.2%)
8) Philipp Grubauer (34.5%)
9) Robin Lehner (26.7%)
10) Juuse Saros (28.9%)
11) Igor Shesterkin (28.3%)
12) Thatcher Demko (25.0%)
13) Jacob Markstrom (44.4%)
14) Ben Bishop (31.3%)
15) Darcy Kuemper (36.0%)
16) MacKenzie Blackwood (Tiebreaker: 60.6%)
17) Jordan Binnington (19.4%)
18) Ilya Sorokin (17.1%)
19) Linus Ullmark (16.7%)

Colorado has a system and team that inflates goaltending numbers. The Avs ranked 1st and 6th in high danger chances against the last two years.

That’s why a good portion of the fan base isn’t worried about this Grubauer/Keumper swap.

Pavel Francouz posted a better SV% last year than Grubauer did this year. Not many think Francouz is even starting caliber.

If Kuemper can post good numbers in Arizona, there’s no reason to believe he can’t do the same, or better in Colorado.

 

[Buck Naked]

Colorado has a system and team that inflates goaltending numbers. The Avs ranked 1st and 6th in high danger chances against the last two years.

That’s why a good portion of the fan base isn’t worried about this Grubauer/Keumper swap.

Pavel Francouz posted a better SV% last year than Grubauer did this year. Not many think Francouz is even starting caliber.

If Kuemper can post good numbers in Arizona, there’s no reason to believe he can’t do the same, or better in Colorado.

I understand that, it's beside the point though. People voted Grubauer as a much better goalie, now that narrative is changing. Not that you guys don't feel worried. If we would do that vote again, Kuemper would most likely beat Grubauer, despite not having played any games since the other vote took place. That's what's funny.

 

[Muffin]

I understand that, it's beside the point though. People voted Grubauer as a much better goalie, now that narrative is changing. Not that you guys don't feel worried. If we would do that vote again, Kuemper would most likely beat Grubauer, despite not having played any games since the other vote took place. That's what's funny.

Recency bias. Had you made the poll last off season Kuemper would’ve won in a landslide. Remember how everyone said goaltending was Colorado’s biggest weakness. Grubauer put up amazing numbers on a stacked team in a weak division and the narrative changed.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I love how the narrative is that Kuemper and Gru are equal or that Kuemper is better after this trade was completed. HF just voted a few days ago and this was the result. I pushed for Kuemper before Gibson was voted in, but it's always hilarious to see the narrative change so quick just because he's at a more popular team now.

1) Andrei Vasilevskiy (89.9%)
2) Connor Hellebuyck (59.7%)
3) Carey Price (47.7%)
4) Marc-Andre Fleury (41.3%)
5) Tuukka Rask (35.1%)
6) John Gibson (38.3%)
7) Semyon Varlamov (29.2%)
8) Philipp Grubauer (34.5%)
9) Robin Lehner (26.7%)
10) Juuse Saros (28.9%)
11) Igor Shesterkin (28.3%)
12) Thatcher Demko (25.0%)
13) Jacob Markstrom (44.4%)
14) Ben Bishop (31.3%)
15) Darcy Kuemper (36.0%)
16) MacKenzie Blackwood (Tiebreaker: 60.6%)
17) Jordan Binnington (19.4%)
18) Ilya Sorokin (17.1%)
19) Linus Ullmark (16.7%)

Yeah I wouldn't use polls on here to prove a point hardly anyone votes and most people just vote for the player on their. The polls on here are just embarassing tbh.

 

[Muffin]

Fans that are unhappy with Colorado’s off-season had unrealistic expectations, in reality they’re up against the cap with big raises for Landeskog and Makar. They wouldn’t even be able to afford Ryan Murray had they re-signed Grubauer.

Their improvement always had to come from guys like Newhook and Byram.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Don't see why Landeskog is worth more than Hyman other than the fact that he's a captain? Look at their numbers from their past season, they provide basically the same value. Yet for some reason the Oilers are stupid to sign Hyman at 5.5 while it's amazing that Avs signed Landeskog at 7. They're both players who are great next to superstars but provide little without them. I don't think they should cost $7 million.

Don’t see why Landeskog is better than Hyman? Have you used the eye test? Landeskog is a better hockey player and doesn’t suffer from tunnel vision like Hyman does.

Nevermind the fact that Hyman is older, has a ton of miles on him, and has looked like crap ever since his latest surgery. He may not even be the same player now that he was before that.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Vegas had the worse offseason.

They not only shipped out their best goaltender and franchise cornerstone, they also sent the message to their players that they can all be dealt at any moment without being consulted first, even if they win awards and are universally appreciated by fans and teammates.

I predict that Vegas will not be a very attractive destination in the future for FAs as a consequence.

I don't understand. The GM of a hockey team reports either to a president or to the team owner, he doesn't answer to the players. The players are in essence contractors with guaranteed contracts bound by a CBA. They know, or at least they should know, that they can be moved at any time unless they have a protection clause in their contracts that allows them to veto said move. There are a few players that are exceptions to this rule, but this isn't like the NFL where the franchise QB carries more clout than everyone sans ownership in the franchise.

If you have a GM that is more concerned with being the player's friend than a manager of a hockey club willing and able to make hard decisions, you end up like the Maple Leafs, who are shallower than a kiddie pool and twice as complacent.

 

[koteka]

The real answer is Tampa

San Jose says “Hold my beer.”

 

[DJJones]

I love how the narrative is that Kuemper and Gru are equal or that Kuemper is better after this trade was completed. HF just voted a few days ago and this was the result. I pushed for Kuemper before Gibson was voted in, but it's always hilarious to see the narrative change so quick just because he's at a more popular team now.

1) Andrei Vasilevskiy (89.9%)
2) Connor Hellebuyck (59.7%)
3) Carey Price (47.7%)
4) Marc-Andre Fleury (41.3%)
5) Tuukka Rask (35.1%)
6) John Gibson (38.3%)
7) Semyon Varlamov (29.2%)
8) Philipp Grubauer (34.5%)
9) Robin Lehner (26.7%)
10) Juuse Saros (28.9%)
11) Igor Shesterkin (28.3%)
12) Thatcher Demko (25.0%)
13) Jacob Markstrom (44.4%)
14) Ben Bishop (31.3%)
15) Darcy Kuemper (36.0%)
16) MacKenzie Blackwood (Tiebreaker: 60.6%)
17) Jordan Binnington (19.4%)
18) Ilya Sorokin (17.1%)
19) Linus Ullmark (16.7%)

Do this poll again and they'd be reversed and Fleury will drop like a stone.

 

[Buck Naked]

Don’t see why Landeskog is better than Hyman? Have you used the eye test? Landeskog is a better hockey player and doesn’t suffer from tunnel vision like Hyman does.

Nevermind the fact that Hyman is older, has a ton of miles on him, and has looked like crap ever since his latest surgery. He may not even be the same player now that he was before that.

I've seen them both a lot and agree that Landeskog looks a bit better with the eye test. Is he that far off though? No way. They're both complementary players. Landeskog's been looking awful away from Rantanen and MacKinnon. Is that a player worth $7 million per year?

 

[Buck Naked]

Do this poll again and they'd be reversed and Fleury will drop like a stone.

Exactly this.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I don't understand. The GM of a hockey team reports either to a president or to the team owner, he doesn't answer to the players. The players are in essence contractors with guaranteed contracts bound by a CBA. They know, or at least they should know, that they can be moved at any time unless they have a protection clause in their contracts that allows them to veto said move. There are a few players that are exceptions to this rule, but this isn't like the NFL where the franchise QB carries more clout than everyone sans ownership in the franchise.

If you have a GM that is more concerned with being the player's friend than a manager of a hockey club willing and able to make hard decisions, you end up like the Maple Leafs, who are shallower than a kiddie pool and twice as complacent.

They’re not even given a heads up phone call or a thank you phone call in the case of Vegas.

There’s a huge gap between dealing players like they’re livestock and being their friend as the GM. You don’t have to fall into either extreme to run a NHL team.

In fact, Vegas is pretty much the only team that takes this approach where they completely disregard the players’ interest and they don’t commit to anything. It’s OK to do that with your 4th liners, they know what they’re in for. To go out and state publicly that Fleury is your man and will retire in Vegas, only to ship him out a few months later without a phone call is very low.

That’s not the way to build a team culture, and I predict that players in FA will avoid signing in Vegas for that reason in the future.

 

[triggrman]

OP question "Which team is in a better spot?" Answer, Colorado is the better team right now.
Title says "Who has had the worse offseason: Vegas or Colorado?" Likely Vegas but Colorado was closer here, IMHO
And poll question says. "Team/GM with the worse moves?" IMHO, Vegas handling of MAF puts them over the top here.

I answered the OP question but these 3 questions are all different.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

They’re not even given a heads up phone call or a thank you phone call in the case of Vegas.

There’s a huge gap between dealing players like they’re livestock and being their friend as the GM. You don’t have to fall into either extreme to run a NHL team.

In fact, Vegas is pretty much the only team that takes this approach where they completely disregard the players’ interest and they don’t commit to anything. It’s OK to do that with your 4th liners, they know what they’re in for. To go out and state publicly that Fleury is your man and will retire in Vegas, only to ship him out a few months later without a phone call is very low.

That’s not the way to build a team culture, and I predict that players in FA will avoid signing in Vegas for that reason in the future.

Fair enough, that's a reasonable and rational response.

 

[triggrman]

I don't understand. The GM of a hockey team reports either to a president or to the team owner, he doesn't answer to the players. The players are in essence contractors with guaranteed contracts bound by a CBA. They know, or at least they should know, that they can be moved at any time unless they have a protection clause in their contracts that allows them to veto said move. There are a few players that are exceptions to this rule, but this isn't like the NFL where the franchise QB carries more clout than everyone sans ownership in the franchise.

If you have a GM that is more concerned with being the player's friend than a manager of a hockey club willing and able to make hard decisions, you end up like the Maple Leafs, who are shallower than a kiddie pool and twice as complacent.

There's a area in between this. You know, they one were you personally call the player to discuss the trade.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

There's a area in between this. You know, they one were you personally call the player to discuss the trade.

I don't disagree.

 

[hockeydog23]

How is Landeskog overpaid when people kept telling us there’s no way he signs under 8M$? I think he’s fairly paid but I hate the terms though. I agree that we overpaid for Kuemper but we basically had no other choice. Losing Saad while not getting any replacement hurt but let’s hope rookie Newhook is ready for a top 6 role. What hurt with the Kuemper trade is that we could’ve used that 1st and Timmins to get a guy like Rakkell.

Agree, that the most painful thing about the Keumper trade is losing trade assets for a future improvement this year.

 

[hockeydog23]

Don't even think the Avs had a bad offseason. They shed over $7 mm in salary of complementary players who don't show up in the post season at all. Donskoi completely disappeared in the second round of the past two playoffs. Graves... pretty much single handedly lost OT for Colorado in game 5 with his tunnel vision shots from the point leading to a breakaway. It's also tough seeing a guy whose role is presumably to provide grit be turn down fights and be manhandled by Reaves the way he was after the Janmark hit in game 1 v. VGK. Sakic's plan was specifically to rid the team of those two players through the expansion draft, mission accomplished. He protected Logan O'connor for god's sake to make sure Seattle wouldn't pick a cheap player and leave him with both Compher and Donskoi still on payroll.

Also, they finally added someone who the other team is afraid of being punched by (McDermond), and made a bunch of depth signings to replace bottom of the lineup players that left. They are expecting Byram and Newhook to come in and take on major roles, those highly touted prospects should more than make up for the combined loss of Graves and Donskoi on the ice. If that's not an upgrade it will be a disappointment. And, they signed Makar and Landy to team friendly deals. Landy's term may hurt on the back end, but Makar making less than Seth Jones, Zach Werenski, Erik Karlsson, and Doughty, is pretty great. He easily could have demanded 11 MM and probably gotten it. I will say, that I wish the Avs had signed Saad to same deal he got in St. Louis.

Finally, they got better in goal, for almost half the cap hit. The trade for Keumper felt a bit steep, but the assets given up will have almost no impact on THIS year's cup run other than maybe limiting their ability to trade for a difference-maker during the season. I just don't see how the Avs offseason was a negative as a foregone conclusion.

 

[Sempiternal]

I think Grubauer was an unexpected kick to the balls. He had an amazing regular season and I think that will sting A LOT. That being said, relying on Robin Lehner is VERY risky.

I think it's a tie, since both lost a goalie and it isn't a very confident position for both teams going into this season.

 

[missionAvs]

Shit I misread this. I read who had the worst post season and voted the Avs. Vegas had the worse offseason for sure.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Voted Vegas bc who is their #1 center.

 

[Team Cozens]

Add Toronto

 

[Team Cozens]

Voted Vegas bc who is their #1 center.

JaCk EiChEl