Who gets fired/shipped first?

[GardinerTheForward]

Leafs are young like my Jets. Also like my Jets did for a few years and still do to an extent, struggle with growing pains. Not every young player developes at the same pace.

I do see a significant difference between the 2 tho and thats D depth.. Our 2 best D are out in Buff and Morrissey and have been for some time... Plug n play here right now.. Imagine Toronto losing Reilly and ohbi dunno.. Muzzin lets say.. You guys would be a mess.. We still got Trouba and Myers and even Kulikov.

Growing pains are real. Like the Jets also drafting high end offensive based players... It takes time for them to learn to play D.. They never had to in junior really.

Winnipeg players are old bro.

This kind of mentality is the opposite of what I want for Toronto - constant excuses. “We’re only 7 years remlved from finishing last. Our stars are young!”

 

[King Mapes]

This team has been playing at a sub 87 point pace for the past 35 games (not 5 or 10 games - 35 games) after playing the first 37 games at a 120 point pace. Last year they played better as the year went on playing at a 113 point pace over their last 35 games. An 87 point pace wouldn't get this team even close to a wild card spot. This team is terrible. That shouldn't be a question to anyone who watches them play. The questions should be why are they terrible now? And is it something that can be fixed before they swept out of the playoffs in a completely embarrassing way.

We are a great team (currently top 5) regardless of how you spin numbers. We are something like 12-7-2 in our last 21 (correct me if I'm wrong) so the magical 35 game number you picked was actually really a 10-15 game stretch that brought those numbers down. It's just the way you purposely spun it.

 

[King Mapes]

I would love to see this format:
1vs2
3vs4
5/6
7/8
Then the games are evenly matched and the lower teams can still advance and have a chance...plus the middle teams get an opportunity to actually compete..Just like Babcock says...ultimately there' s little difference usually btwn 1, 2,3,4 in a division...this way a #3 for example can go deep in the playoffs AND so can 1 or even a 5!! much more fair. I think.

Hope you're joking. 1 should ever face 2 in the first round. But the fact we have 2 top 5 teams in he league potentially facing eachother in the first round then you likely get the best team in the league?

 

[34]

Hypothetically speaking, even if the Leafs miss the playoffs/get swept this season and go on to miss the playoffs next season as well...Babcock is never getting fired. He is pretty much bulletproof no matter how bad the team plays.

 

[biotk]

We are a great team (currently top 5) regardless of how you spin numbers. We are something like 12-7-2 in our last 21 (correct me if I'm wrong) so the magical 35 game number you picked was actually really a 10-15 game stretch that brought those numbers down. It's just the way you purposely spun it.

12-7-2 is still only 101 point pace, so worse than last year, and much worse than their finish last year, and with you choosing to start it on a winning streak. I didn't pick 35 games because it was magical. I picked it because it started with the first game after the Christmas break, and it started with a win so I wasn't trying to spin the results like you were.

 

[King Mapes]

12-7-2 is still only 101 point pace, so worse than last year, and much worse than their finish last year, and with you choosing to start it on a winning streak. I didn't pick 35 games because it was magical. I picked it because it started with the first game after the Christmas break, and it started with a win so I wasn't trying to spin the results like you were.

Well you said "that isn't a 10 game stretch it's 35 games!!!" When in fact it was 10 game a that brought those numbers down. Nothing wrong with a 101 point pace when you are in the best division in hockey.

Also they finished 6rh overall last year and are 5th this year. So technically it's still better.

 

[biotk]

Hypothetically speaking, even if the Leafs miss the playoffs/get swept this season and go on to miss the playoffs next season as well...Babcock is never getting fired. He is pretty much bulletproof no matter how bad the team plays.

There is no such thing as a bulletproof coach. Scotty Bowman was fired.

 

[King Mapes]

There is no such thing as a bulletproof coach. Scotty Bowman was fired.

Yeah if we got swept and then we're going to miss playoffs, he'd be gone before the regular season was up.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

DJ Smith is winning so far, but Egocock is in 2nd place LOL.

 

[34]

There is no such thing as a bulletproof coach. Scotty Bowman was fired.

Well I feel that Babcock has some type of guarantee that he will never be fired. He is just so cocky and arrogant. I don't agree with it, but not much to say I guess. I am not putting all the blame on him, but his systems are not working clearly. You would think he would change/adapt to have success right... but nope, same garbage after every game "we did not start on time". Time for a change!

 

[biotk]

Well you said "that isn't a 10 game stretch it's 35 games!!!" When in fact it was 10 game a that brought those numbers down. Nothing wrong with a 101 point pace when you are in the best division in hockey.

I said that it was not a 5 or 10 game stretch I was looking at, but a 35 game stretch.

There is something extremely wrong with a 101 point pace from a team with as much talent as the Leafs have.

I have used pace since Christmas over the years to assess how well teams would do in playoff matchups. The previous two years those indicated that Toronto would do pretty well against Washington and Boston, and they did taking the series to 6 and 7 games. This year with Toronto on an 87 point pace since Christmas and Boston on a 120 point pace since Christmas it should be a complete slaughter.

 

[King Mapes]

I said that it was not a 5 or 10 game stretch I was looking at, but a 35 game stretch.

There is something extremely wrong with a 101 point pace from a team with as much talent as the Leafs have.

I have used pace since Christmas over the years to assess how well teams would do in playoff matchups. The previous two years those indicated that Toronto would do pretty well against Washington and Boston, and they did taking the series to 6 and 7 games. This year with Toronto on an 87 point pace since Christmas and Boston on a 120 point pace since Christmas it should be a complete slaughter.

But again you're basing the playoffs off of their worst 10 game stretch of the season. 10 game stretch. We are in a better position this year than last. There is nothing wrong with a 101 point pace. Again you have unrealistic expectations on this team and it's laughable we have people complaining about a top 5 overall team that continues to improve.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

But again you're basing the playoffs off of their worst 10 game stretch of the season. 10 game stretch. We are in a better position this year than last. There is nothing wrong with a 101 point pace. Again you have unrealistic expectations on this team and it's laughable we have people complaining about a top 5 overall team that continues to improve.

But it doesn't bode well that the leafs are playing their worst after the Christmas break. Contending teams are supposed to get better as the year goes on. A 101 point team against Boston is still not even close to where we need to be

 

[King Mapes]

But it doesn't bode well that the leafs are playing their worst after the Christmas break. Contending teams are supposed to get better as the year goes on

What are you talking about? We are 12-7-2 in our last 21 games, that pace is close to our pace all year.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What are you talking about? We are 12-7-2 in our last 21 games, that pace is close to our pace all year.

Still not close to as good as Boston is. Also, the leafs are currently playing their worst hockey of the season. I'm not trying to say the leafs are doomed, but they clearly have to find another gear like Boston already has. 7-6-2 in our last 15, giving up a whopping 54 goals (3.6 a game)

 

[Stephen]

Still not close to as good as Boston is. Also, the leafs are currently playing their worst hockey of the season. I'm not trying to say the leafs are doomed, but they clearly have to find another gear like Boston already has

You're not wrong, the Leafs could be better. But the Bruins also lost three in a row this past week, so that's something.

 

[biotk]

But again you're basing the playoffs off of their worst 10 game stretch of the season. 10 game stretch. We are in a better position this year than last. There is nothing wrong with a 101 point pace. Again you have unrealistic expectations on this team and it's laughable we have people complaining about a top 5 overall team that continues to improve.

They are not a team that is in a better position this year than last year. They are a team that is going to face a better Bruins team this year. They are a team that is falling apart right now. A team that remains high in the standings only because of an extremely hot start. This is not a top 5 team on the ice right now. Just like Columbus was not a top 4 team in 2016 (when they played at a 128 point pace before Christmas and a 95 point pace after) when they were eliminated in the first round in 5 games without putting up a fight. Same goes for the Pens in 2014/15 who before Christmas were first in the NHL (118 point pace) and played at a 84 point pace after. Eliminated in 5.

Teams which do much worse in the second half than in the first half of the season don't do well in the playoffs because they are no longer a good team.

 

[moon111]

I cannot understand how under any fathomable conditions that people would expect the Leafs to be a contender at this point.
If this was a Hot Rod we were building, there's a nice fancy engine, transmission, axle etc. But the suspension is still in the
shop and won't be ready for another year at least. The only thing I can see is swapping out some older parts for new ones.

 

[mallory67]

It's inevitable that at least one of the management team is gone in the offseason, based on the bad play of the Leafs and what media and fans have been predicting.

Ironic, given that Leafs are still on an over 100pt pace season again.

Whos most likely gone?

Don't want to be THAT guy, but shouldn't you wait and see what happens with the rest of the season and playoffs?
Our "bad play" currently has us 5TH in the entire NHL and we are 19 games over .500.
Plenty of things to discuss, but posts like this make me embarrassed to be a Leafs fan.

Sheesh. Hope this is an ironic thread?

 

[Voodoo Child]

Are people seriously this insane? It's 'inevitable' someone from management is gone? I'm living in crazytown.

I'm not a Babs booster by any means - do I like him? Yes. Does he sometimes piss me off with his choices and his stubbornness? Also yes, but he's gotten results.

Babcock won't be getting fired even if the Leafs lose in the first round again, with the team improving year over year. First round exit or not this will be the first Leafs team to make the playoffs three times in a row in fifteen years.

Now next year if the same happens (or they fail to qualify) and Babs ending year five of his eight year deal, and there is mounting concern that the players have tuned him out, maybe then, but not now.

Nor will Dubas be fired, he's had the job for like eight months, got Tavares, traded for Muzzin and his first round pick Rasmus Sandin looks like a star in the making.

'But he overpaid Auston and Melander!' - Auston Matthews and William Nylander are the exact type of guys you overpay (Willy would be around 70 points if he didn't holdout, you know it and I know it).

Mitch Marner is also the exact type of guy you overpay (I hope for ten or less). You think we should be like the Canucks and Oilers, overpaying guys who have like seven goals this year?

Get a grip, people.

I think Connor Brown is gonzo in the summer but we won't get much - I'd like to package him with our 3rd to move up into the second round. As a standalone piece he returns a 3rd or lower pick and prospect.

I think Kadri is safe for now, but if Nylander continues to look good at C, and next year Bracco steps in on RW and puts up Kapanen or Johnssonesque numbers, we could ship him out - two years remaining on a sweetheart deal for a proven 30 goal scorer who agitates and plays hard - we would have a lot of people interested.

We would have to significantly sweeten the pot to get rid of Zaitsev if we wanted value back, and we would have to take back a lower and less lengthy deal in return, but Dubas wouldn't do a deal that makes the team worse.

I could be convinced to do something like Zaitsev + 3rd for Jake Allen (3X4.35 but retained to 4, he can play 25 games a year easy) or something like that. Erik Gudbranson (who makes 4 and is indisputably worse than Zaitsev, was able to be traded one for one for Tanner Pearson - no contract is unmovable).

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

This thread is so lol overreaction.

Couple of years ago we were one every of the worst teams in the league.

Now we’re 5th overall, tied with the defending champs with 10 games to go in the regular season, and because of a few bad games we’re talking about wholesale changes.

Just lol.

we are 19th in the NHL since Jan 1. NINETEENTH.

 

[King Mapes]

They are not a team that is in a better position this year than last year. They are a team that is going to face a better Bruins team this year. They are a team that is falling apart right now. A team that remains high in the standings only because of an extremely hot start. This is not a top 5 team on the ice right now. Just like Columbus was not a top 4 team in 2016 (when they played at a 128 point pace before Christmas and a 95 point pace after) when they were eliminated in the first round in 5 games without putting up a fight. Same goes for the Pens in 2014/15 who before Christmas were first in the NHL (118 point pace) and played at a 84 point pace after. Eliminated in 5.

Teams which do much worse in the second half than in the first half of the season don't do well in the playoffs because they are no longer a good team.

Leafs are playing at a 101 point pace in the past 21 games. Position wise they are better. They finished 6 last year and last I seen are 5th this year. It's a long season, every team (except Tampa) goes hot and cold. Welcome to the NHL.

 

[King Mapes]

we are 19th in the NHL since Jan 1. NINETEENTH.

Where are we since Feb 1? Let's keep taking turns spinning dates and stats to fit our arguements..

 

[Nooodles]

Hopefully the one who always bashes everyone in interviews and expect everyone else to "do their job" every day, but NEVER questions himself.

Never blames his structure.

Never steps up and say he couldn't prepare the team. Night after night.

Stubborn piece of shit.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

We will be "Trimming some fat" this off season. We have like 3 or 4 players that are simply dead weight dragging there linemates down with inadequate performance. Team still has work to do clearly so let's see how this team is improved further over the summer.