Who Are Your Buffalo Sabres "Untouchables"?

[Woodhouse]

I really think that the internet and talk radio have really inflated people's expectations for picks getting moved due to the need to fill air time and get page views.

There was all sorts of chatter heading into the 2013 draft that picks could move and the first pick that got traded was NJ trading 9 for Schneider.

There was all sorts of chatter heading into this year's draft and again, there was no movement among the lottery picks and the first pick that was moved was at #20.

I don't think it will be realistic to trade up on draft day. Especially if people are talking about trading upto #1 or #2.

I was talking more of a targeted trade up than some far-fetched multiple pick deal to the top.

 

[Jim Bob]

I was talking more of a targeted trade up than some far-fetched multiple pick deal to the top.

Even those seem to be tough to pull off.

Murray talked and talked about wanting to do it this year and couldn't find a dance partner.

 

[JOHNBOY]

Myers
Girgensons
Ristolainen
Zadorov
2015 1st (BUF)

 

[B U F F A L O]

Myers
Girgensons
Ristolainen
Zadorov
2015 1st (BUF)

Must have been a Bennett fan.

 

[Dutchess]

Girgs, Risto, Reinhart and our 1st in '15. Other than that, I'm listening.

 

[stokes84]

Even those seem to be tough to pull off.

Murray talked and talked about wanting to do it this year and couldn't find a dance partner.

It will be easier to trade up in a deeper draft.

 

[MayDay]

Girgs, Risto, Reinhart and our 1st in '15. Other than that, I'm listening.

I don't see te argument for keeping our pick but trading the islanders pick.

For all we know, the isles pick could win the draft lottery. Even if that team has improved a bit, it's still not a playoff team, and with the altered lottery odds, we have to hold on to it.

The only way I trade that pick is if somehow the isles are safely in a playoff position at the trade deadline.

 

[Jim Bob]

It will be easier to trade up in a deeper draft.

That's funny because I heard that it would be easier to trade up this year as opposed to last year because the talent was flat from 10 to 35.....

Nobody did a traditional trade back in 2013 and that draft class is getting compared to 2015.

I think the odds are slim that someone trades back in the top 10 to 15 picks next year.

And save me the anything can happen stuff.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't see te argument for keeping our pick but trading the islanders pick.

For all we know, the isles pick could win the draft lottery. Even if that team has improved a bit, it's still not a playoff team, and with the altered lottery odds, we have to hold on to it.

The only way I trade that pick is if somehow the isles are safely in a playoff position at the trade deadline.

The thing is that the kinds of players the Sabres would target are unlikely to get moved at the deadline for a pick. It happens sometimes, but it is shocking.

Like the Kassian-Hodgson trade.

 

[ZeroPT*]

That's funny because I heard that it would be easier to trade up this year as opposed to last year because the talent was flat from 10 to 35.....

Nobody did a traditional trade back in 2013 and that draft class is getting compared to 2015.

I think the odds are slim that someone trades back in the top 10 to 15 picks next year.

And save me the anything can happen stuff.

I don't think anyone said that

 

[stokes84]

That's funny because I heard that it would be easier to trade up this year as opposed to last year because the talent was flat from 10 to 35.....

Nobody did a traditional trade back in 2013 and that draft class is getting compared to 2015.

I think the odds are slim that someone trades back in the top 10 to 15 picks next year.

And save me the anything can happen stuff.

I think most people saw a major drop off around 20. That's why nobody wanted to trade out of those spots. The talent was not flat between 10-35. I don't know where you got that idea from.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't think anyone said that

I think most people saw a major drop off around 20. That's why nobody wanted to trade out of those spots. The talent was not flat between 10-35. I don't know where you got that idea from.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1679317

How many people thought that Murray could offer up all 3 2nds and get into the mid-1st round?

Murray said he made that offer and was turned down.

Murray was aggressive and talked to a bunch of guys about moving up and couldn't find a dance partner.

I expect that trend to continue.

 

[ZeroPT*]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1679317

How many people thought that Murray could offer up all 3 2nds and get into the mid-1st round?

Murray said he made that offer and was turned down.

Murray was aggressive and talked to a bunch of guys about moving up and couldn't find a dance partner.

I expect that trend to continue.

you can't say that like every draft is the same.

In one draft it costs 1 second to move up 7 spots and in another, 3 seconds isn't enough to move 7-11 spots.

Every draft varies and the value of each pick is different.

Pick #14 in 2012 is different than pick #14 in 2014

 

[Paxon]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1679317

How many people thought that Murray could offer up all 3 2nds and get into the mid-1st round?

Murray said he made that offer and was turned down.

Murray was aggressive and talked to a bunch of guys about moving up and couldn't find a dance partner.

I expect that trend to continue.

He could have moved up, just not into the teens with three 2nd's. The 2nd round in this draft was valued very low relative to the early 20's of the 1st round, as much as I've seen I think. In 2013 the 2nd round was highly valued. It shouldn't surprise anyone that three 2nd's in that draft didn't get into the teens. How often do you see a team trade down that many spots for three picks? Trading out of the teens usually means going down a few spots to pick up another 2nd.

 

[Jim Bob]

you can't say that like every draft is the same.

In one draft it costs 1 second to move up 7 spots and in another, 3 seconds isn't enough to move 7-11 spots.

Every draft varies and the value of each pick is different.

Pick #14 in 2012 is different than pick #14 in 2014

Trading from 21 to 14 in 2012 isn't what people have been talking about.

They are talking about trading up into the top 5 or so. Those kinds of trades haven't happened in the past few years.

That trade up to get ZG was the highest pure trade up involving picks.

Here are where the first pure trade ups for picks happened:

2014 - 20th pick
2013 - 18th pick
2012 - 14th pick
2011 - 22nd pick
2010 - 15th pick
2009 - 12th pick
2008 - 5th pick

You have to go all the way back to the 2008 Draft to get a trade up involving a top 5 pick and the past few years plenty of people on the radio and on the internet have made it seem pretty easy to make those kinds of trades.

Personally, I don't think it is very likely to make a trade up for a premium pick unless a significant NHL player is moved in the deal.

 

[Woodhouse]

Trading from 21 to 14 in 2012 isn't what people have been talking about.

They are talking about trading up into the top 5 or so. Those kinds of trades haven't happened in the past few years.

That trade up to get ZG was the highest pure trade up involving picks.

Here are where the first pure trade ups for picks happened:

2014 - 20th pick
2013 - 18th pick
2012 - 14th pick
2011 - 22nd pick
2010 - 15th pick
2009 - 12th pick
2008 - 5th pick

You have to go all the way back to the 2008 Draft to get a trade up involving a top 5 pick and the past few years plenty of people on the radio and on the internet have made it seem pretty easy to make those kinds of trades.

Personally, I don't think it is very likely to make a trade up for a premium pick unless a significant NHL player is moved in the deal.

Well, I think you misinterpreted what I was hinting at earlier because that's exactly the type of trade I was talking about, not one of those cringe-worthy top five fantasy proposals or worse, some McDavid, Eichel, AND Hanifin dreamland scenario. All I said was I would prefer to keep any 2015 picks for trade flexibility, i.e. targeted players on their board. That allows Murray to try and improve the STL pick by offering a second or two and/or maybe a buried prospect; while, also if needed, some flexibility to improve the NYI pick with the STL pick and/or others as well, but the higher the pick is here, obviously the lesser the need is to entertain dumping assets unless there's someone they have graded above the rest.

 

[Ethan Edwards]

They are talking about trading up into the top 5 or so. Those kinds of trades haven't happened in the past few years.

Here are where the first pure trade ups for picks happened:

2014 - 20th pick
2013 - 18th pick
2012 - 14th pick
2011 - 22nd pick
2010 - 15th pick
2009 - 12th pick
2008 - 5th pick

You have to go all the way back to the 2008 Draft to get a trade up involving a top 5 pick and the past few years plenty of people on the radio and on the internet have made it seem pretty easy to make those kinds of trades.

Personally, I don't think it is very likely to make a trade up for a premium pick unless a significant NHL player is moved in the deal.

I'm not here to disagree with your assessment of the difficulty or your ultimate conclusion, but what's a premium pick in this next draft? The answer to that will vary today and certainly 9 months from now, but regardless I'm extremely confident it will be significantly different than all the other drafts you've mentioned, maybe except for 2013, but I think even that year won't equate. There are 10-15 guys right now, give or take, that are projected (loaded word, I know) to be of elite quality. And maybe more, the jury is still out. You have the arguable 2-3 potential "generational" players coming up, then a whole slew of dynamic players right behind them. Again, your conclusion may be correct, but IMO this draft, which I believe will compare more to the '03 draft (pre-draft, not based on what happened later, which confirmed the hype), changes the mindset of GMs when evaluating potential trades. It is also worlds away from the 2014 draft in terms of depth. I don't predict NFL draft-worthy wheeling and dealing or anything close, but I still say having 3 firsts next year provides great flexibility/maneuverability for TM, regardless of how he chooses to use them. Even if he chooses to use the picks, or is forced to use them, it still works because of the incredible depth. We're in a very enviable place right now.

 

[Chainshot]

Right at the moment?

Girgensons
Reinhart
2015 Sabres and Islanders 1st rounders

Other than those, no one else is truly untouchable. Expensive, sure, but not untouchable.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm not here to disagree with your assessment of the difficulty or your ultimate conclusion, but what's a premium pick in this next draft? The answer to that will vary today and certainly 9 months from now, but regardless I'm extremely confident it will be significantly different than all the other drafts you've mentioned, maybe except for 2013, but I think even that year won't equate. There are 10-15 guys right now, give or take, that are projected (loaded word, I know) to be of elite quality. And maybe more, the jury is still out. You have the arguable 2-3 potential "generational" players coming up, then a whole slew of dynamic players right behind them. Again, your conclusion may be correct, but IMO this draft, which I believe will compare more to the '03 draft (pre-draft, not based on what happened later, which confirmed the hype), changes the mindset of GMs when evaluating potential trades. It is also worlds away from the 2014 draft in terms of depth. I don't predict NFL draft-worthy wheeling and dealing or anything close, but I still say having 3 firsts next year provides great flexibility/maneuverability for TM, regardless of how he chooses to use them. Even if he chooses to use the picks, or is forced to use them, it still works because of the incredible depth. We're in a very enviable place right now.

Even in 2003 you didn't see a lot of movement early outside of the Penguins trading up from 3 to 1 to take Fleury.

There was a lot of jockeying around from 16 down, though.

All I'm trying to say is that the likeliest scenario is that the Sabres pick at the spots they are in the days leading up to the draft. And any movement up or down is more likely the later the picks are.

Just look at the 31st pick this year. Murray reportedly got a ton of calls given the break between round 1 and round 2 and yet he stood pat and took Lemieux.

 

[Jim Bob]

Well, I think you misinterpreted what I was hinting at earlier because that's exactly the type of trade I was talking about, not one of those cringe-worthy top five fantasy proposals or worse, some McDavid, Eichel, AND Hanifin dreamland scenario. All I said was I would prefer to keep any 2015 picks for trade flexibility, i.e. targeted players on their board. That allows Murray to try and improve the STL pick by offering a second or two and/or maybe a buried prospect; while, also if needed, some flexibility to improve the NYI pick with the STL pick and/or others as well, but the higher the pick is here, obviously the lesser the need is to entertain dumping assets unless there's someone they have graded above the rest.

I'd rather they keep the picks merely because the 2015 draft is supposed to be so good!

 

[Ethan Edwards]

Just look at the 31st pick this year. Murray reportedly got a ton of calls given the break between round 1 and round 2 and yet he stood pat and took Lemieux.

And that's the flexibility I'm talking about. Yeah, when the shoe is on the other foot (when Murray wants to trade up, for example), other GMs may all say "no" again. But when it's us holding three 1sts and 5 Top 50 picks in a stacked draft, we will hold most of the cards. Not all, and much will depend on where we and the NYI (and STL) finish, but we'll be more in the driver's seat than all or almost all other teams I anticipate simply due to pick totals. No major disagreements here, I just like being in control of three firsts in this particular draft, even if in the end we get nothing else out of it but the picks themselves. It's still a win.