Who Are We?

[JacketsDavid]

Who are we? To steal from TWD "We are all Bob". That's the identity, the whole team.

 

[Byrral]

All I know is come the 2nd round of the playoffs MANY of you will have forgotten who you thought the CBJ were in Oct/Nov...

Bold prediction considering you left out what you assume to know about the CBJ come the 2nd round of the playoffs.

 

[MoeBartoli]

So it's been over two months since the question was posed: "Who Are We?" So after a few more months, do we have a clearer picture of our team's identity?

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

So it's been over two months since the question was posed: "Who Are We?" So after a few more months, do we have a clearer picture of our team's identity?

The play over the past 2 months has consistently been inconsistent. Typically an ok-to-good start in the first, followed by an atrocious second period where the team looks disengaged and sloppy in all three zones. Third periods have been crapshoots. This is a slippery slope we’re going down.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

So it's been over two months since the question was posed: "Who Are We?" So after a few more months, do we have a clearer picture of our team's identity?

Yes we do.

We are team overtime and team shootout. 12-0-3. Pond hockey is our forte.

Actually, the CBJ don't have an identity. It's a rudderless ship right now, adrift in a sea of sub mediocrity.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So it's been over two months since the question was posed: "Who Are We?" So after a few more months, do we have a clearer picture of our team's identity?

No.

 

[LoveCBJ]

IMHO: Last year we always had people in front of the net, in front of the opponents goalie. This year, everything is on the wall and behind the net, there is rarely anyone in front which makes it easy for the opponents goalie. We shoot from the dots and there is never anyone there for rebounds. Our best goals have been directly in front of the goalie. Werenski is in a sophomore slump. I see very little hustle from him.

 

[CBJx614]

Yes we do.

We are team overtime and team shootout. 12-0-3. Pond hockey is our forte.

Actually, the CBJ don't have an identity. It's a rudderless ship right now, adrift in a sea of sub mediocrity.

I think we'e stuck in between identities. We're trying to get over the grind it out style of hockey for a more skilled game, problem is the roster is still mainly built for a grind it out style of hockey. The D wants to help jump into play and be aggressive but i don' think they have enough skill outside of Jones, Werenski and Nuttivara.

Jones and Z need to be split up, I've been saying it for awhile and especially on the PP. Let them each run their own pairing.

Nutti - Jones
Werenski - Savard
Harrington - Johnson

If Murray ever comes back

Murray-Jones
Werenski - Nutti
Johnson - Savard

It's like having Zach and Bread on the same PP line, it just doesn't work. I get the feeling they both wanna be the guy the PP runs through. And they pass up good looks to try to force a shot or pass they shouldn't.

Foligno - Dubois - Anderson
Panarin - Jones

Jenner - Wennberg - Atkinson
Bjorkstrand - Werenski


I dunno, this team needs some kind of serious shakeup. If they can't get themselves going Jarmo is going to have to try to Jumpstart the team, I think these small moves are him attempting to do that. And if they don't get going hes going to have to go get the jumper cables or replace the battery entirely (big trade)

 

[EspenK]

I think we'e stuck in between identities. We're trying to get over the grind it out style of hockey for a more skilled game, problem is the roster is still mainly built for a grind it out style of hockey. The D wants to help jump into play and be aggressive but i don' think they have enough skill outside of Jones, Werenski and Nuttivara.

I agree we're stuck in the middle (cue Stealer's Wheel). I'm not sure Torts wants to get over the grind it out style. I don't think most of our key guys Panarin, Bjorkstrand, Werenski, Jones, Milano, Wennberg (giving the last 2 benefit of the doubt here) are made for the grind it out style. Envision those guys plus PLD & Anderson in a free flowing offense. Would have to beat what we have now I would think.

 

[Viqsi]

So it's been over two months since the question was posed: "Who Are We?" So after a few more months, do we have a clearer picture of our team's identity?

We do. @Double-Shift Lasse is using it as his avatar.

 

[MoeBartoli]

We do. @Double-Shift Lasse is using it as his avatar.

Hmmm......Don't rabbits usually have the reputation as prolific producers?

 

[NotWendell]

We are everything Don Cherry hates about European-style hockey.

 

[Old Guy]

Two years ago, this team stumbled out of the gate, was done by Halloween and Totrts got them to play .500 hockey the rest of the way. Jarmo spend the off-season saying he didn't think the CBJ were the 4th worst team in the league.

Last season the team added Anderson and Werenski. Johnson and Savard looked like they really knew what they were doing. They win 16 straight and finish 4th best in the league.

This year the team has a terrible power play, terrible shooting % and a Corsi rate that looks like the Titanic after the iceberg. I'll now say it......The CBJ were not the 4th best team in the league last season.

 

[EDM]

We are a badly coached team.

 

[Monk]

From this:


I deduced this:

 

[MoeBartoli]

I found this an interesting article on The Athletic, outlining the Tug of war between the Babcock more conservative play vs. the more natural free wheeling style utilizing the talent and skill of the young Leafs. The subplot is the tendency to rely on "comfortable" veterans at the expense of up and coming more talented players. I don't think we have close to the Leafs offensive talent, but some aspects of this reminded me of the debates we often have on this Board.
Mirtle: We're finally seeing the best version of the Maple...

 

[JacketsDavid]

Use to be an old theory that you used a certain coach to maximize what you had (make you competive, maybe get you to the playoffs) then often times another coach was needed to push the team to next level which sounds like what is being discussed.
Still to me I'm not sure what level of talent we actually have. We have a good goalie and pretty good blue line, but if we take JJ out of there (if he does get traded) the depth is hurt there, still see us as good but maybe more 10-12th overall (whereas beginning of year based on JJs play last season it was 4th-8th overall?). I still argue for the forwards that we are at best average there and likely closer to slightly below average (maybe 18th-21st in our forwards ability compared to other teams). Recently with injuries/slumps they (forwards) have been terrible.
Again I think we have the overall talent. But problem is we just can't score that 3rd/4th goal consistently to win games. Bigger issue is there just isn't a lot of help out there either (top line C or another very good goal scorer at wing).

 

[Old Guy]

The CBJ began the year with Safe is Death being alive and well.. Somewhere along the line, Safe is Death became sick and was near death. Then Safe is Death actually died. Now, in truly Lazarus-esque fashion (the Bible story - not the department store), Safe is Death has been resurrected. Only in time will we learn if Safe is Death is actually alive, if Save is Death is well, or Safe is Death is still near death.

Stay tuned......Safe is Death could die again.

If Safe is Death does actually die, and should be resurrected again, Old Guy promises to move from Lazarus metaphors (Bible story - not department store) and take up cat's lives metaphors.

PS....if you are keeping score at home, Lazarus (the department store - not the Bible store), never received the same treatment as Lazarus (the Bible story - not the department store).

 

[blahblah]

I tend to think that we are team in transition. We've been that "hardworking team" with mixed results. We're transitioning into more a puck moving, transition type team. We have some players that really don't fit that mold. Our team defense is horrific at times (this is not to be assumed to be pointed at our defensive players). This puts too much pressure on the goal tending and we just end up overplaying Bob.

What we did have for a solid month last season, was we learned how to be a puck possession team. We dominated some teams. Then we forgot it around the time of the stream. Since then our forecheck has been nothing special.

Our younger players are what this team is about. Some of the veterans really just need a new home. They seem to fit our team from 2+ years ago, not so much now.

As far as coaching, I think Torts is just getting in his own way. For example one of the best things he could do is more Jenner to center. We have plenty of wings. I have no idea what is going though Torts's mind but a blind person can tell when we do play him at center he is far more comfortable and is more engaged in the game. That goofy crap with roster decisions for the playoffs last season was just self destruction.

I have more to say, but I'm at work so I'll keep it short (for me at least) for now.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I tend to think that we are team in transition.

"In the process of becoming" is the terminology I used on the prior page. Not exactly the same, and maybe you don't think my assessment is as close to yours as I do, but... I do.

 

[Forepar]

Stuck in 2nd gear. Cannot tell if that is a response to Torts' coaching style, or if the talent just isn't there, or if the effort needed to play that all-out pressure game is too much (or too early in the season to expend it) as if the "hang-on" at the end of last year has them thinking "don't peak too soon?"

We saw this team pressuring opponents very early this season. It has been mediocre (at best), for most of this season, but the 9-4 start had significant stretches of solid, sometimes dominating play. I admit, not good for the past 30-some games.

I've been puzzled all year, waiting for the worm to turn.

I've watched 2 games in the past 35 days from different views than usual.
Was at the game in Ottawa, sat essentially directly across from the CBJ bench.
I saw good play for a period....I watched a bad goal let in by Bob completely deflate the entire team, not just on the ice but on the bench. A couple of bad bounces, bu it was as if we were watching the team from 2+ years ago that you always waited for the bad thing to happen that made you say "here we go again." I hadn't observed or felt that for the past 2+ years, until that night.
I haven't seen much of that since the Ottawa game, but it showed how reliant this team is emotionally on Bob (or Korpi).
They have no confidence they can win a high-scoring game - whether that comes from Torts or within, I don't know.
But didn't make much of it until after Tuesday nights game against Minnesota.

Tuesday night's game I sat in different seats than my usual - at one end, looking up the ice, lower bowl.
The one thing I noticed was a significant difference in "giddy-up" between the two teams after the first 10 minutes. For the remainder of the game, Minnesota skated hard, trying to create chances. When Minnesota was skating towards me, I could see the effort, almost hear/feel it. In the next period, with CBJ skating toward me, CBJ appeared to skate tentatively, if not lazily, trying not to give up odd-man rushes (which they gave up anyway). I never felt the speed that I've seen at times from CBJ, and certainly not the speed I've seen from elite teams. For the most part we skated right with TBL in at least the first 2 games this season...but have not seen that team.

Maybe in addition to Torts making them watch the entire Minnesota game, he should also throw on one of the early TBL games. Both teams played at an incredible pace for the entire game(s). We may have gotten out-talented in the end, but that was fun to watch and showed some of the speed we have but need to use more often. I do think a prior post by ??? mentioning that the D moving up so much has paralyzed our forwards has some merit. I'm ok with the occasional D rush, but the constant D moving up has the forwards on the ice playing passive - except for 9, who seems to be all over the ice regardless.

 

[CBJx614]

I tend to think that we are team in transition. We've been that "hardworking team" with mixed results. We're transitioning into more a puck moving, transition type team. We have some players that really don't fit that mold. Our team defense is horrific at times (this is not to be assumed to be pointed at our defensive players). This puts too much pressure on the goal tending and we just end up overplaying Bob.

What we did have for a solid month last season, was we learned how to be a puck possession team. We dominated some teams. Then we forgot it around the time of the stream. Since then our forecheck has been nothing special.

Our younger players are what this team is about. Some of the veterans really just need a new home. They seem to fit our team from 2+ years ago, not so much now.

As far as coaching, I think Torts is just getting in his own way. For example one of the best things he could do is more Jenner to center. We have plenty of wings. I have no idea what is going though Torts's mind but a blind person can tell when we do play him at center he is far more comfortable and is more engaged in the game. That goofy crap with roster decisions for the playoffs last season was just self destruction.

I have more to say, but I'm at work so I'll keep it short (for me at least) for now.

We don't agree much, but I'm in complete agreement with just about everything here. I've been calling for Jenner to play center for years now. Pretty much since after his rookie season I've wanted him back at center. It made sense when we had Dubinsky, Anisimov, Letestu and Johansen. I was told time and time again by folks here that he didn' have the playmaking skills, the vision or passing abilities.

It's similar to what Dubois said, when his dad wanted him to get engaged he would move him to center which forced him to move his feet a lot more. Wonder if it's having the same effect on Jenner.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The team is blessed with world class goaltending and two potential perennial All Stars on defense. After that the outlook gets murkier.

I think Jarmo thought that the core of veteran forwards (Dubi, Fligs, Cam, Jenner) would be joined by a rising group of young forwards (Wennberg, PLD, Anderson, Bjorkstrand, Milano) and that the two would mesh to provide above average scoring which would combine with a superior defense to make the CBJ a competitor for years to come.

On defense, JJ has obviously declined and Savard hasn't been as good as one would have thought. Murray is rarely healthy. So 3 of the dmen have fallen far short of expectations this year. After a quick start, Z hasn't been as good as one would have hoped. So only Jones and Nutivaara have met or exceeded expectations. Still, the overall defensive performance of the team has been acceptable-tied for 8th best in the NHL in goals allowed.

The simultaneous decline of Jenner, Fligs and Dubi caught Jarmo by surprise. Wennberg hasn't progressed as expected; he's regressed. Cam's season has been a disappointment, to say the least. Bjrokstrand, Anderson, Milano and PLD are probably close to the FOs expectations.

So what the CBJ have to deal with is an offense that is far below expectations-even with a world class player like Panarin. Dubinsky and Foligno are extremely problematic. They aren't likely regain their scoring levels of the past and they are making in the $6 million range for 3 more seasons after 17-18. Getting rid of their contracts is probably close to impossible unless there's serious retention or a bad contract is taken in return. Jenner's 30 goal season was a flash in the pan. He's now playing like he was probably projected to as a second round pick. So, all three of the leaders (C, A, former A) are pretty much drags on the offense. This is not good.

The offense needs to be upgraded. Getting rid of the under performers will not be easy. I'd retain a bunch on Dubinsky just to get rid of him. If I couldn't, I'd ride him out for another year and then exercise a buyout-assuming he doesn't return to form. Foligno might be able to be a 40-45 points player, so there's still hope for him. Jenner needs to go. He's young enough and his 30 goal season recent enough such that he can probably still be traded for an asset. Wennberg is an interesting case, I'd be inclined to shop him and see what I could get.

If the CBJ FO just stays the course, I don't see a playoff team in this roster. The 3 veteran drags on the offense will be way too much to overcome.

 

[Viqsi]

The team is blessed with world class goaltending and two potential perennial All Stars on defense. After that the outlook gets murkier.

I think Jarmo thought that the core of veteran forwards (Dubi, Fligs, Cam, Jenner) would be joined by a rising group of young forwards (Wennberg, PLD, Anderson, Bjorkstrand, Milano) and that the two would mesh to provide above average scoring which would combine with a superior defense to make the CBJ a competitor for years to come.

On defense, JJ has obviously declined and Savard hasn't been as good as one would have thought. Murray is rarely healthy. So 3 of the dmen have fallen far short of expectations this year. After a quick start, Z hasn't been as good as one would have hoped. So only Jones and Nutivaara have met or exceeded expectations. Still, the overall defensive performance of the team has been acceptable-tied for 8th best in the NHL in goals allowed.

The simultaneous decline of Jenner, Fligs and Dubi caught Jarmo by surprise. Wennberg hasn't progressed as expected; he's regressed. Cam's season has been a disappointment, to say the least. Bjrokstrand, Anderson, Milano and PLD are probably close to the FOs expectations.

So what the CBJ have to deal with is an offense that is far below expectations-even with a world class player like Panarin. Dubinsky and Foligno are extremely problematic. They aren't likely regain their scoring levels of the past and they are making in the $6 million range for 3 more seasons after 17-18. Getting rid of their contracts is probably close to impossible unless there's serious retention or a bad contract is taken in return. Jenner's 30 goal season was a flash in the pan. He's now playing like he was probably projected to as a second round pick. So, all three of the leaders (C, A, former A) are pretty much drags on the offense. This is not good.

The offense needs to be upgraded. Getting rid of the under performers will not be easy. I'd retain a bunch on Dubinsky just to get rid of him. If I couldn't, I'd ride him out for another year and then exercise a buyout-assuming he doesn't return to form. Foligno might be able to be a 40-45 points player, so there's still hope for him. Jenner needs to go. He's young enough and his 30 goal season recent enough such that he can probably still be traded for an asset. Wennberg is an interesting case, I'd be inclined to shop him and see what I could get.

If the CBJ FO just stays the course, I don't see a playoff team in this roster. The 3 veteran drags on the offense will be way too much to overcome.

I was right there with you and agreeing with everything until you went from there to "and therefore we need to get rid of these guys". You seem to have a reasonable idea of what ails the team, but you're going for some fairly radical ways of addressing it. Retaining on Dubi just to dump him in particular is more than a little extreme.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I was right there with you and agreeing with everything until you went from there to "and therefore we need to get rid of these guys". You seem to have a reasonable idea of what ails the team, but you're going for some fairly radical ways of addressing it. Retaining on Dubi just to dump him in particular is more than a little extreme.

There's nothing really extreme about trading a player and retaining salary or buying him out. Happens all the time.