Who are some of the best HoG players lost in the annals of time?
- Thread starter Filthy Dangles
- Start date
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
- 28,807
- 16,283
weirdly a lot of discussion of pat verbeek recently. in terms of HOG players, i think the one who is more forgotten and who probably was the better player was john maclean.
they were almost exact contemporaries and teammates on that young devils team of the late '80s.
verbeek was a year older, 3rd round pick in the '82 draft. maclean was a first rounder, 6th overall, in '83.
verbeek has six games in maclean's draft year, then has his proper rookie season in maclean's first year. maclean only plays 21 games that first year.
in '85, which is maclean's first full year, both guys get 33 points.
in '86, both guys have their first 20 goal seasons.
in '87, both guys have their first 30 goal seasons.
in '88, verbeek has his breakout 40 goal season. maclean has an off year regular season before putting up 18 point in the playoffs as nj comes a game seven away from the finals and is the leading scorer of the team's young core of him, verbeek, muller, sean burke, driver, daneyko, tom kurvers, and rookie shanahan. maclean scores the third period game-tying and OT game winning goals in the last game of the regular season to get the devils into the playoffs for the first time (a crazy 10-2-1 final month that coincided with sean burke joining the team after the olympics), then scored the third period GWG against the caps in game seven to win the patrick and put the devils into the third round, and then gets the late second period go-ahead goal and eventual game winner against boston to force game seven.
in '89, maclean has his own breakout 40 goal season. now it's verbeek's turn to have an off year. he gets traded to hartford in the offseason, as the first of lou's contract purges, followed by shanahan, then muller, then burke.
by '91, both guys are coming off a run of 40 goal years. maclean has three straight, verbeek has three in his last four. this is eerie: from '85 to '91, verbeek has 538 games, 234 goals, 205 assists, 439 points. maclean has 523 games, 216 goals, 224 assists, 440 points.
but then maclean misses the entire '92 season with a knee injury.
verbeek missed 82 games over his entire nineteen year career, not counting his six game audition in '83. he finished 33rd all time in games played and retired with numbers of 1,424 games, 522 goals, 540 assists, 1,062 points.
maclean played the exact same nineteen years, but in addition to his missed season right in his peak, fell apart in his last two years, playing 50 games combined in '01 and '02. in the end, maclean has a long respectable career of his own: 1,194 games, 413 goals, 439 assists, 842 points.
but when you really look at the numbers year-by-year, they are really really close. verbeek just has better health and ages better into their mid-thirties.
but maclean was the better all-round player, far better defensively, a more imposing physical presence when he wanted to use it (though verbeek was feisty af of course), and money aside i think there's a reason that he and not verbeek was the scoring winger new jersey kept going into the '90s and their glory years.
verbeek wasted most of his peak on non-competitive hartford teams, but still the playoff discrepancy is real. maclean: 104 games, 35 goals, 48 assists, 83 points. top 2-3 scorer on '88, '94, and '95 teams. verbeek: 117 games, 26 goals, 36 assists, 62 points, scored 12 points in '88 (6th) and 7 points on the '99 stars (9th).
does have two more really really good playoff runs in '94 to come within another game seven (this time in OT) of the finals, and then on the '95 cup team.
ironically, in their last seasons, verbeek and maclean were reunited with muller on the disappointing '02 stars team that missed the playoffs for the only time in a twelve year run from zubov's first to last year (speaking of the importance of a high level PMD...) and got hitchcock fired. in other weird nj/dallas weirdness, that was also the year they traded langenbrunner and nieuwendyk for arnott and mckay, setting up the '03 run.
they were almost exact contemporaries and teammates on that young devils team of the late '80s.
verbeek was a year older, 3rd round pick in the '82 draft. maclean was a first rounder, 6th overall, in '83.
verbeek has six games in maclean's draft year, then has his proper rookie season in maclean's first year. maclean only plays 21 games that first year.
in '85, which is maclean's first full year, both guys get 33 points.
in '86, both guys have their first 20 goal seasons.
in '87, both guys have their first 30 goal seasons.
in '88, verbeek has his breakout 40 goal season. maclean has an off year regular season before putting up 18 point in the playoffs as nj comes a game seven away from the finals and is the leading scorer of the team's young core of him, verbeek, muller, sean burke, driver, daneyko, tom kurvers, and rookie shanahan. maclean scores the third period game-tying and OT game winning goals in the last game of the regular season to get the devils into the playoffs for the first time (a crazy 10-2-1 final month that coincided with sean burke joining the team after the olympics), then scored the third period GWG against the caps in game seven to win the patrick and put the devils into the third round, and then gets the late second period go-ahead goal and eventual game winner against boston to force game seven.
in '89, maclean has his own breakout 40 goal season. now it's verbeek's turn to have an off year. he gets traded to hartford in the offseason, as the first of lou's contract purges, followed by shanahan, then muller, then burke.
by '91, both guys are coming off a run of 40 goal years. maclean has three straight, verbeek has three in his last four. this is eerie: from '85 to '91, verbeek has 538 games, 234 goals, 205 assists, 439 points. maclean has 523 games, 216 goals, 224 assists, 440 points.
but then maclean misses the entire '92 season with a knee injury.
verbeek missed 82 games over his entire nineteen year career, not counting his six game audition in '83. he finished 33rd all time in games played and retired with numbers of 1,424 games, 522 goals, 540 assists, 1,062 points.
maclean played the exact same nineteen years, but in addition to his missed season right in his peak, fell apart in his last two years, playing 50 games combined in '01 and '02. in the end, maclean has a long respectable career of his own: 1,194 games, 413 goals, 439 assists, 842 points.
but when you really look at the numbers year-by-year, they are really really close. verbeek just has better health and ages better into their mid-thirties.
but maclean was the better all-round player, far better defensively, a more imposing physical presence when he wanted to use it (though verbeek was feisty af of course), and money aside i think there's a reason that he and not verbeek was the scoring winger new jersey kept going into the '90s and their glory years.
verbeek wasted most of his peak on non-competitive hartford teams, but still the playoff discrepancy is real. maclean: 104 games, 35 goals, 48 assists, 83 points. top 2-3 scorer on '88, '94, and '95 teams. verbeek: 117 games, 26 goals, 36 assists, 62 points, scored 12 points in '88 (6th) and 7 points on the '99 stars (9th).
does have two more really really good playoff runs in '94 to come within another game seven (this time in OT) of the finals, and then on the '95 cup team.
ironically, in their last seasons, verbeek and maclean were reunited with muller on the disappointing '02 stars team that missed the playoffs for the only time in a twelve year run from zubov's first to last year (speaking of the importance of a high level PMD...) and got hitchcock fired. in other weird nj/dallas weirdness, that was also the year they traded langenbrunner and nieuwendyk for arnott and mckay, setting up the '03 run.
Hockeyholic
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blundluntman
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- Jul 30, 2016
- 2,633
- 2,826
VMBM
And it didn't even bring me down
Hmmm, he is in the HHOF and has been there for ages, and quite an icon in New York and with the Rangers, has his number retired. OK, not exactly a huge name world-wide, but imo he has sort of gotten his due?
I have to say, though, that I remember a Finnish football legend and (one-time?) reporter Jallu Rantanen writing a story (something to do with the New York Rangers? Not sure anymore what it was) where he interviewed Rod Gilbert, and he kept referring to him as Brad Gilbert (who is a former tennis star/coach, of course)... Maybe there is something there.
Stanislasjc
Registered User
As a fan who grew up watching 90's hockey, I love your picks. Slick Slava Kozlov was fun to watch on that Russian line. I think he is still playing in Russia somewhere, well into his 40's now.
I didn't pay much attention to Sykora until he found surprising chemistry with Kariya and Oates in 2002-03, when the Ducks made it to the cup on the back of lockdown D and a red-hot Giguere. He had better years in New Jersey, but he was so valuable to the Ducks that year. He provided an offensive spark that they really needed.
I really enjoyed Stevie Sullivan's little run there in Chicago, and used him as a counter-example when my dad told me Martin St. Louis was too small to ever succeed at the NHL level (when I was a kid, we used to watch St.Louis when he was on the Saint John Flames, and I used to get upset when my dad dismissed him. Then again, he was right about Rico Fata sucking and I was very very wrong).
Cory Stillman was another great Saint John Flames guy, who took a while to develop. Really smart, underrated playmaker who had an 80pt season pre-2004 lockout.
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