Line Combos: Who and What makes the core of this team?
- Thread starter AslanRH
- Start date
My take:
1)
minimum 4 top 6 forwards, including 1 center)
minimum 3 top 4 defensemen
1 top 15 caliber goaltender
2 experienced role players preferrably seen as leaders in the locker room(ex: PK/defensive specialists or PPQB 3rd pairing defenseman)
______
minimum 10 total players who should be locked up for a good portion of the contending window. I think all other positions can be flexible depending on the performance and needs of the team.
2)
Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Stastny and/or O'Reilly (need them willing to resign first at a reasonable price and accepting of their roles).
EJ and Hejda.
Varlamov
McLeod
3)
Assuming Stastny and/or O'Reilly get resigned long term, I think the Avs are lacking another top 4 defenseman and that second role player (Talbot may become that) although I think if he keeps working on his game, Bordeleau does play an important role for the team.
1)
minimum 4 top 6 forwards, including 1 center)
minimum 3 top 4 defensemen
1 top 15 caliber goaltender
2 experienced role players preferrably seen as leaders in the locker room(ex: PK/defensive specialists or PPQB 3rd pairing defenseman)
______
minimum 10 total players who should be locked up for a good portion of the contending window. I think all other positions can be flexible depending on the performance and needs of the team.
2)
Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Stastny and/or O'Reilly (need them willing to resign first at a reasonable price and accepting of their roles).
EJ and Hejda.
Varlamov
McLeod
3)
Assuming Stastny and/or O'Reilly get resigned long term, I think the Avs are lacking another top 4 defenseman and that second role player (Talbot may become that) although I think if he keeps working on his game, Bordeleau does play an important role for the team.
klozge
Avs
1) This differs from team to team. I guess, you can say it's a small group of players you want to keep and build around until you have to rebuild your team again. Go more into detail and you'll see that there's no typical pattern like 1 center, 1 dman and 1 goalie for example. It depends on who you have on your team.
2) Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog. I like to also see Stastny, EJ, Hejda and Varlamov as part of the core but none of them are untouchable imo. O'Reilly is not part of the core anymore although I like to think that it needs some massive overpayment for the Avs to trade him.
3) I think the core is good enough.
Edit: McLeod is an interesting case. I can't imagine the Avs would trade him or won't re-sign him in the next few years but I don't think he's a guy you want to build around.
2) Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog. I like to also see Stastny, EJ, Hejda and Varlamov as part of the core but none of them are untouchable imo. O'Reilly is not part of the core anymore although I like to think that it needs some massive overpayment for the Avs to trade him.
3) I think the core is good enough.
Edit: McLeod is an interesting case. I can't imagine the Avs would trade him or won't re-sign him in the next few years but I don't think he's a guy you want to build around.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
For me "core" means long term "franchise" players. Basically untouchable in trades and players who will confidently still be on the team in 5 years. Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon locks right now. EJ, Varly and O'Reilly should be as well, I just wouldn't call it a lock until those contracts are signed. Top two center/wing combo, top defenseman and goalie sound like a good core to me. If Stastny gets another contract I'd add him as well, it just remains to be seen how he fits into their long term plans. Everyone else are complimentary players even if they are valuable and good.
Going forward I think the Avs are only lacking a defenseman for the core. Maybe that's Bigras, Siemens, some other prospect or a trade. I feel like they are really holding out for a good trade for someone that can be added to the core and not someone to keep the seat warm a few years.
Going forward I think the Avs are only lacking a defenseman for the core. Maybe that's Bigras, Siemens, some other prospect or a trade. I feel like they are really holding out for a good trade for someone that can be added to the core and not someone to keep the seat warm a few years.
Avs71
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- Aug 12, 2008
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Cypher
Registered User
1. A core is 4 forwards (2 of which are C), 4 defenseman and a goalie...all round the same age group
2. Avs core
O'Reilly - Duchene - XXXXXXXXXXXX
Landeskog - Mackinnon - XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX - XXXXXXXXX - XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX - XXXXXXXXX - XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX - Johnson
XXXXXXX - Barrie
XXXXXXX - XXXXXX
Varlamov
XXXXXXX
3. Avs need 2 LHD (one of which will hopefully be Siemens or Bigras, the other will need to be acquired me thinks)
2. Avs core
O'Reilly - Duchene - XXXXXXXXXXXX
Landeskog - Mackinnon - XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX - XXXXXXXXX - XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX - XXXXXXXXX - XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX - Johnson
XXXXXXX - Barrie
XXXXXXX - XXXXXX
Varlamov
XXXXXXX
3. Avs need 2 LHD (one of which will hopefully be Siemens or Bigras, the other will need to be acquired me thinks)
- Dec 2, 2007
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4 defenders are a bit much for a core... generally 2 defenders is acceptable there.
A core is what you build around. You don't build around goaltenders, bottom 6 forwards or bottom 4 defenders. If they aren't #1's at their positions or will be #1's at their positions on most teams, they aren't your core.
That is Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon and Johnson. ROR/Staz/Varly are the next rung down, the first tier of guys you acquire to go with your core and enhance your entire team. It just so happens to be that this definition perfectly mirrors draft position I noticed... amusing.
A core is what you build around. You don't build around goaltenders, bottom 6 forwards or bottom 4 defenders. If they aren't #1's at their positions or will be #1's at their positions on most teams, they aren't your core.
That is Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon and Johnson. ROR/Staz/Varly are the next rung down, the first tier of guys you acquire to go with your core and enhance your entire team. It just so happens to be that this definition perfectly mirrors draft position I noticed... amusing.
I'd agree with this, but I'd knock one defender off. Counting four defenders as part of your core is pushing it IMO. You either need two guys to lead your top two pairings, or a very strong top pair.
So I think I'd go with a #1, #2, and #3 defender as part of the core. A lot of guys can fit into that #4 slot effectively if your #3 is good enough.
I'd add that another forward is needed as part of the core in either a top level third center or one more top 6 winger. I'm more on the side of having the middle of the ice locked down.
Third line centers may have been easy to find years ago, but with the added pressure your third line has to create offense now, you need that third line to be a major focus when creating a contending team. Third line centers are playing upwards of 15 minutes on a regular basis now days.
O'Reilly - Duchene - XXXXX
Landeskog - Mackinnon - XXXXX
XXXXX - O'Reilly/Stastny - XXXXX
XXXXX - EJ
Siemens/Bigras - Barrie/Elliott
This is exactly why I think it's worth spending the extra money to keep both O'Reilly & Stastny, as Stastny ages he can either be used on the wing or moved into a primary defensive role. It should be a slow transition from Stastny as our #2 to Mackinnon/Duchene as the #1/2C combo.
In three years Stastny will be 30 going on 31 in the middle of that season. Perfect age for a upper level third line center, and Stastny isn't going to be getting any faster.
RockLobster
King in the North
Anyone who doesn't think O'Reilly is very much apart of the Avalanche "core" are, in my opinion, only saying that because they're still harboring resentment for his contract dispute last year.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
There are important pieces that every team needs but core is so much more IMO. Looking at some threads or predictions from 5 years ago it is astonishing how much things have changed since then. If the Avs can have 6+ players stick around that long it would be huge to building this team. O'Reilly is absolutely core worthy, he just needs to get that contract extension behind him and I believe it will happen. With Barrie I'm not even sure he'll be on this team by the end of the season, let alone as part of the core.
Avs_19
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- Jun 28, 2007
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Should be four guys up front:
O'Reilly-Duchene
Landeskog-MacKinnon
Pair the gamebreaking offensive center with the stud two-way winger. We could be set for a long time there.
We need another good top four defenseman. Hopefully Siemens, Bigras, and Barrie all pan out but we don't know that yet. Right now we only have EJ.
- Dec 2, 2007
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He's a very borderline player for a core as far as I am concerned and I'm harboring no ill will at this point. A core player doesn't have to be one that you wouldn't trade.
Nihiliste
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- Feb 8, 2010
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It's an interesting question. I think it could be interesting to analyze what's happened with other post rebuild teams.
CHICAGO
Core: Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook
Long term complimentary players: Hossa, Sharp, Hjalmarsson, Crawford
Past key contributors: Niemi, Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, etc etc
PENS
Core: Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury
Long term complimentary players: Orpik, Kunitz, now Martin
Past key contributors: Scuderi (lost him for key years but back now), J. Staal, Guerin, Talbot
BRUINS
A bit more arguable.
Core: Bergeron, Chara, Lucic, Krejci, Rask
Long term complimentary players: Marchand, Seidenberg, now Eriksson
Current key contributors: Kelly/Campbell/Paille/Boychuk/Mcquaid etc
Future core players: Hamilton
Past key contributors: Thomas, Horton, Ference, Seguin
I find it pretty hard to define who is a core bruin and who is a replaceable piece as they've had limited roster turnover lately but ironically have lost some big pieces in that time (Thomas, Seguin, Horton).
KINGS
Core: Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Doughty, Quick
Long term complimentary players: Carter, Voynov, Williams, Mitchell
With all that in mind I'd say for now our only safe core players are Duchene, Mackinnon, Landeskog. If the organization commits to them long term I would include EJ and Varly in that group, but not until then. It's hard to say with ROR - he's a critical part of the team but in relation to the other 3 big forwards its hard to say if he's viewed in the same group by management. With the Avs of old, the only guys I would have considered core players were Sakic, Forsberg, Roy, and Foote. Everything else around those guys was essentially an interchangeable part. I'm not sure that anyone outside of our big 3 forwards fits that bill going forward.
Or they just have a different view of what core means
CHICAGO
Core: Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook
Long term complimentary players: Hossa, Sharp, Hjalmarsson, Crawford
Past key contributors: Niemi, Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, etc etc
PENS
Core: Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury
Long term complimentary players: Orpik, Kunitz, now Martin
Past key contributors: Scuderi (lost him for key years but back now), J. Staal, Guerin, Talbot
BRUINS
A bit more arguable.
Core: Bergeron, Chara, Lucic, Krejci, Rask
Long term complimentary players: Marchand, Seidenberg, now Eriksson
Current key contributors: Kelly/Campbell/Paille/Boychuk/Mcquaid etc
Future core players: Hamilton
Past key contributors: Thomas, Horton, Ference, Seguin
I find it pretty hard to define who is a core bruin and who is a replaceable piece as they've had limited roster turnover lately but ironically have lost some big pieces in that time (Thomas, Seguin, Horton).
KINGS
Core: Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Doughty, Quick
Long term complimentary players: Carter, Voynov, Williams, Mitchell
With all that in mind I'd say for now our only safe core players are Duchene, Mackinnon, Landeskog. If the organization commits to them long term I would include EJ and Varly in that group, but not until then. It's hard to say with ROR - he's a critical part of the team but in relation to the other 3 big forwards its hard to say if he's viewed in the same group by management. With the Avs of old, the only guys I would have considered core players were Sakic, Forsberg, Roy, and Foote. Everything else around those guys was essentially an interchangeable part. I'm not sure that anyone outside of our big 3 forwards fits that bill going forward.
Or they just have a different view of what core means
Avs For Life
#92 #9 #29
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
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In the same way I think Sharp and Seabrook is part of the Blackhawks core and Pavelski is part of the Sharks core, I think O'Reilly is part of the Avalanche core.
I guess it's semantics though. If you narrow it down to dominant players Chicago might only have Toews, Hossa, Kane and Keith as their core.
I guess it's semantics though. If you narrow it down to dominant players Chicago might only have Toews, Hossa, Kane and Keith as their core.
- Oct 24, 2008
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Having an identity and being able to rely on key players in different situations, whether those be scoring, defensive, or in leadership capacities. Identify your 5-6 guys that you will pay big money to and put the responsibility on their shoulders to guide the team. Find the right guys to compliment those top-end players' strengths.
Duchene/MacKinnon/O'Reilly/Landeskog
Johnson
Varlamov
It goes without saying that we need a couple of top 4 defensemen. Hejda isn't getting any younger and we are getting his best years right now, not when we will be trying to win a Stanley Cup in 2 or 3 years time. Beyond acquiring a couple of D, I'd like to see a true 3rd line center brought in and for us to develop a couple of big, scoring wingers. The next contracts for O'Reilly, Varlamov, and then MacKinnon and Johnson will be interesting.
BoxOfChocolates
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Cypher
Registered User
Totally disagree. Radar is much more valuable at this point, all things considering (age, contract, corsi stats, etc.)
BoxOfChocolates
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O'Reilly is more valuable in a trade sense yes, however I think Stastny would be just as valuable to this team as RoR would be over the next 4-5 years.
Avs_19
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MvpKinnon
#29
Exactly! It's all about how much the player improves the team.
After we drafted MacKinnon, people didn't believe we could keep all these forwards. I'm still a fan of the idea of keeping all of Duchy, ROR, Landy, Staz, Mack.. By the time Mack is ready for that beefy contract, I think Stastny is a lot cheaper
BoxOfChocolates
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Who's still on the team from 8-10 years ago? Point being, I highly doubt either are still wearing an Avalanche jersey then. So what matters is how they perform in the next couple years when we are hopefully contending for a cup.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
It's pretty cool McLeod and Stastny have played for 7 seasons and Duchene, O'Reilly (hopefully) and Landy will be up to that kind of longevity soon as well.
