Which Trade was Burke's best *** Reset April 28, 2014 ***

Defense

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
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Phaneuf trade and it's not even close!

Kaberle trade was good to heal the wound a little from Kessel deal.

Let's just hope Burke can pull something off once again.

He can move big name players in Phaneuf, Kaberle, and Kessel. Let's just hope he fleeces somebody.
 

Jimmy Firecracker

They Fired Sheldon!
Mar 30, 2010
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Mississauga
I disagree.

I think trading guys like Stajan, Hagman (who was a free agent signing) and White (who, although loved around here, was replaceable) for our new top defence pairing is a pretty astute move.

Don't get him started on the Phaneuf deal. We've all heard it before. Don't encourage him.

Although I'm curious as to why the Beauchemin deal was bad.
 

JMcLeaf

__________
Mar 21, 2010
18,601
19
Definitely the trade that landed us our Captain and Aulie for players with blue & white disease.

Except for Ian White of course. He was immune to that horrendous disease being a descendant of Chuck Norris and all

images
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
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I disagree.

I think trading guys like Stajan, Hagman (who was a free agent signing) and White (who, although loved around here, was replaceable) for our new top defence pairing is a pretty astute move.

That failure of that trade wasn't about losing the players we lost.... it was the overcommitment of financial assets to non-puckmoving blueliners.

Out of curiosity what do you think the Leafs should have done when they were struggling? Just stay the course?

On the Calgary trade? stay the course and wait for Komisarek to get healthy. The year had been burned anyways, so there was no reason to make such a shortsighted move. If Komisarek had gone the other way in the deal (or in a related deal), then maybe the Phaneuf trade would've made sense.

On the Beauchemin trade? A few options. One would be to trade him for a package that doesn't include a horrible contract for us and then try to replace him like we need to do on July 1. Alternatively we could've again stayed the course and built towards putting a group up front that could generate sustained offensive pressure.

Don't get him started on the Phaneuf deal. We've all heard it before. Don't encourage him.

Although I'm curious as to why the Beauchemin deal was bad.

We lost a defenceman that now needs to be replaced (Liles can be relied upon to replace Kaberle's role), and got stuck with a forward who gets in the way of getting a winger for Kessel.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,878
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Of the group? Kaberle's AINEC.

Versteeg's was a very meh trade, and the other two aren't trades that any GM should be bragging about considering the situation the Leafs were in.

Versteeg was never going to be a top 9 fwd with us, if this poll was taken 3 years from now, this deal may be one of Burke's best. It would be hard to get a 2nd rd pick for him now, maybe it was a little unfair to put this deal in this group at this point in time but this was a very good deal by Burke who said at the time "we didn't think we would get the return we got at a later date". Thus he pulled the trigger in Feb, and he also shed a 3.08m contract off the books.
 

Disgruntled Observer*

Guest
Kaberle trade.

Phaneuf (although I like the player a lot) is too overpaid for that trade to be considered Burke's best.
 

Jimmy Firecracker

They Fired Sheldon!
Mar 30, 2010
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Mississauga
Look at his avatar. Must be Lupul's "albatross" contract :laugh::laugh:.

Ha ha I can't see it I'm on a mobile.

@seanlinden you say this July 1st we have to replace Beauchemin? Wouldn't you say we've done that with the aquisition of Liles?

Edit: you answered me already and I didn't see. All right. So you don't think Lupul has any chemistry with Kessel at all? And you don't think Gunner could replace Beauchemin?
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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Versteeg was never going to be a top 9 fwd with us, if this poll was taken 3 years from now, this deal may be one of Burke's best. It would be hard to get a 2nd rd pick for him now, maybe it was a little unfair to put this deal in this group at this point in time but this was a very good deal by Burke who said at the time "we didn't think we would get the return we got at a later date". Thus he pulled the trigger in Feb, and he also shed a 3.08m contract off the books.

Am I complaining about the Versteeg deal? no. I said it was very "meh" trade, "meh" referring to neither good nor bad.

Versteeg wasn't going to be a top 6 guy, and while he could've been a highly effective top 9 guy, it didn't make sense to do that with Armstrong and Kadri occupying spots... so we moved a valuable player for a late 1st + 3rd.

The only real coup here is the Kaberle trade, because Kaberle basically handcuffed Burke by giving him one option.

Ha ha I can't see it I'm on a mobile.

@seanlinden you say this July 1st we have to replace Beauchemin? Wouldn't you say we've done that with the aquisition of Liles?

Edit: you answered me already and I didn't see. All right. So you don't think Lupul has any chemistry with Kessel at all? And you don't think Gunner could replace Beauchemin?

Not at all.... Liles will do an adequate job replacing Kaberle as the PP QB and a puckmover to play with Schenn, we still lack the big minute guy to play with Phaneuf.

Lupul doesns't have any chemistry that will make him and kessel an effective #1 line. They're too similar in the sense that they are shoot first guys who are most effective in the middle of the ice. The guy playing opposite Kessel needs to be a big body that excels in the corners and can crash the crease. Asking Gunnarsson to replace Beauchemin is extremely ambitious... we would've been better served waiting a year and seeing if he actually can do it when somebody gets hurt.
 

NigelTufnel

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Dec 3, 2010
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Ottawa
That failure of that trade wasn't about losing the players we lost.... it was the overcommitment of financial assets to non-puckmoving blueliners.



On the Calgary trade? stay the course and wait for Komisarek to get healthy. The year had been burned anyways, so there was no reason to make such a shortsighted move. If Komisarek had gone the other way in the deal (or in a related deal), then maybe the Phaneuf trade would've made sense.

On the Beauchemin trade? A few options. One would be to trade him for a package that doesn't include a horrible contract for us and then try to replace him like we need to do on July 1. Alternatively we could've again stayed the course and built towards putting a group up front that could generate sustained offensive pressure.



We lost a defenceman that now needs to be replaced (Liles can be relied upon to replace Kaberle's role), and got stuck with a forward who gets in the way of getting a winger for Kessel.

I think that Phaneuf has, at the very least, some ability to move the puck. I've watched him since his calgary days and he's always been good at skating the puck up the ice and getting it deep.

Also, I dont really view it as an "overcommitment of financial assets" as you put it when you factor in the salaries of the players we sent the other way. And I really dont see how Komi comes into this at all.....he has never, ever had Phaneufs offensive ability. Also, I'm just not seeing how it's shortsighted since we didn't give up any futures....they were all current players.

As for the Beauchemin deal, it was Lupul's bad contract that allowed us to get Gardiner and I thought he showed some pretty good chemistry with Kessel in an admittedly small sample size.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
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Am I complaining about the Versteeg deal? no. I said it was very "meh" trade, "meh" referring to neither good nor bad.

Versteeg wasn't going to be a top 6 guy, and while he could've been a highly effective top 9 guy, it didn't make sense to do that with Armstrong and Kadri occupying spots... so we moved a valuable player for a late 1st + 3rd.

The only real coup here is the Kaberle trade, because Kaberle basically handcuffed Burke by giving him one option.

I can't believe I am going to say this, but I agree with you, good point. Considering Burke had 1 team to make a deal with, with Tomas naming only Boston as the team he chose to be traded to, this does give this trade special consideration as Burke's best. How he was able to do it, with Boston knowing this is somewhat puzzling. You would think Chiarelli had the hammer, but it was Burke who had the hand.
 

Schenn

In Rod We Trust
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Feb 24, 2009
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Huron County
I can't decide between the Kaberle, Beauchemin, Phaneuf trades. ughhh.
I wouldn't think the Kaberle trade was as good if Liles wasn't acquired for that pick.
Lupul will be a beast this season and Gardiner is a gem.
We go Phaneuf for scrubs.

The deciding factor for me is Keith Aulie. He pushes the Phaneuf trade even more over the top.

Damn, what a tough choice.
 

JMcLeaf

__________
Mar 21, 2010
18,601
19
On the Calgary trade? stay the course and wait for Komisarek to get healthy. The year had been burned anyways, so there was no reason to make such a shortsighted move. If Komisarek had gone the other way in the deal (or in a related deal), then maybe the Phaneuf trade would've made sense.

On the Beauchemin trade? A few options. One would be to trade him for a package that doesn't include a horrible contract for us and then try to replace him like we need to do on July 1. Alternatively we could've again stayed the course and built towards putting a group up front that could generate sustained offensive pressure.

And what if Komisarek never returned to form which he really never did? Are you implying that Komisarek would get healthy and play the role Phaneuf is now? Komisarek has never been an offensive dman and I always have seen him more as a complimentary player. I'm not a fan of Phaneuf's contract but I still think he plays an extremely important role on our team and we're better off with him than without. I also feel Phaneuf was a huge part of Schenn's growth in this past year. And why is it a shortsighted move? Stajan and Hagman had no future with this franchise, White was a good guy but he can be replaced. Phaneuf was only 24 at the time and he proved in past years that he could be an absoulte force on the back end. He also showed leadership qualities and represented the type of player Burke wants our young players to play like. The addition of Aulie to the deal makes it that much better for now and into the future. So basically I do agree that Phaneuf has a bad contract, but I still think it was a great move for our team because Phaneuf still is a great young player.

The Anaheim trade was certainly risky but so far it has worked out. If Lupul can continue to play like he did at the end of the year then I feel his contract is justified. He is one of the few players that has found chemistry with Kessel which is extremely important because we invested a lot in Phil so we need as much out of him as possible. Lupul appears to be finally healthy so he can work hard all summer and come back even better. I think he will be extremely impressive next year after a summer of hard workouts. The addition of Gardiner to that deal is just gravy.

I think your idea to stay the course could definitely work in the long run, but that's not the only way to get things done. Burke is an aggressive GM and he's going to make bold moves whether you like it or not. Some work out, some don't but I still feel our organization is in a much brighter spot than it was when Burkie first took over.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
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I think that Phaneuf has, at the very least, some ability to move the puck. I've watched him since his calgary days and he's always been good at skating the puck up the ice and getting it deep.

Also, I dont really view it as an "overcommitment of financial assets" as you put it when you factor in the salaries of the players we sent the other way. And I really dont see how Komi comes into this at all.....he has never, ever had Phaneufs offensive ability. Also, I'm just not seeing how it's shortsighted since we didn't give up any futures....they were all current players.

As for the Beauchemin deal, it was Lupul's bad contract that allowed us to get Gardiner and I thought he showed some pretty good chemistry with Kessel in an admittedly small sample size.

No, not at all. He's got the ability to rush the puck when the other team gets caught changing, but he has absolutely no poise under pressure in his own end, and that is by far the most important element of puckmoving.

It absolutely is an overcommitment of financial assets, as illustrated by the players we traded away. The diference between Phaneuf & White's salary was $3.5m. That difference is Matt Stajan, who would've been a massive upgrade to our centre situation last year. Furthermore, Phaneuf didn't add anything to the blueline that we didn't already have. Schenn & Komisarek were the big-minute physical guys. Beauchemin was a hybrid with a hard and accurate shot from the point. Ian White was a dangerous puck rusher. What he did do -- was put us short on puckmoving ability because we lost Ian White.

It was shortsighted because Burke made the move to make a statement because he was upset with his team, while ignoring the long term cap impacts of the move he made.

Getting a project like Gardiner simply wasn't worth losing a valuable defenceman in Beauchemin and taking on a bad contract like Lupul.

And what if Komisarek never returned to form which he really never did? Are you implying that Komisarek would get healthy and play the role Phaneuf is now? Komisarek has never been an offensive dman and I always have seen him more as a complimentary player. I'm not a fan of Phaneuf's contract but I still think he plays an extremely important role on our team and we're better off with him than without. I also feel Phaneuf was a huge part of Schenn's growth in this past year. And why is it a shortsighted move? Stajan and Hagman had no future with this franchise, White was a good guy but he can be replaced. Phaneuf was only 24 at the time and he proved in past years that he could be an absoulte force on the back end. He also showed leadership qualities and represented the type of player Burke wants our young players to play like. The addition of Aulie to the deal makes it that much better for now and into the future. So basically I do agree that Phaneuf has a bad contract, but I still think it was a great move for our team because Phaneuf still is a great young player.

The Anaheim trade was certainly risky but so far it has worked out. If Lupul can continue to play like he did at the end of the year then I feel his contract is justified. He is one of the few players that has found chemistry with Kessel which is extremely important because we invested a lot in Phil so we need as much out of him as possible. Lupul appears to be finally healthy so he can work hard all summer and come back even better. I think he will be extremely impressive next year after a summer of hard workouts. The addition of Gardiner to that deal is just gravy.

I think your idea to stay the course could definitely work in the long run, but that's not the only way to get things done. Burke is an aggressive GM and he's going to make bold moves whether you like it or not. Some work out, some don't but I still feel our organization is in a much brighter spot than it was when Burkie first took over.

Komisarek's play wasn't even that bad. Sure, he struggled at the beginning, so did Beauchemin. Lots of players struggle when they get to their new teams. Burke's problem was that when he traded for Phaneuf -- he put Komisarek in a positon to fail, and that's how you put your team in a position to fail. When you have the ability to spend to the cap, you should be well into the playoffs if you can get the most out of all your players.

You've got no basis to suggest that Phaneuf impacted Schenn's development. You weren't in the room.

The failure of the Anaheim trade wasn't about risk, it just wasn't a good trade to make. Even if Lupul stays healthy, it's not a good deal. We traded a valuable defenceman for a forward who blocks our progress towards becoming a good team. His so-called "chemistry" with Kessel lasted about as long as Versteeg's chemistry with Kessel, and happened in late games of the season which have always been abnormally good for us. Plus, even with Reimer in goal, that line was one of our worst on the ice at any given time.

Staying the course isn't the only way to get things done. Trades are and can be good, it just so happens that these weren't good trades.
 
Last edited:

Jimmy Firecracker

They Fired Sheldon!
Mar 30, 2010
36,469
36,133
Mississauga
Am I complaining about the Versteeg deal? no. I said it was very "meh" trade, "meh" referring to neither good nor bad.

Versteeg wasn't going to be a top 6 guy, and while he could've been a highly effective top 9 guy, it didn't make sense to do that with Armstrong and Kadri occupying spots... so we moved a valuable player for a late 1st + 3rd.

The only real coup here is the Kaberle trade, because Kaberle basically handcuffed Burke by giving him one option.



Not at all.... Liles will do an adequate job replacing Kaberle as the PP QB and a puckmover to play with Schenn, we still lack the big minute guy to play with Phaneuf.

Lupul doesns't have any chemistry that will make him and kessel an effective #1 line. They're too similar in the sense that they are shoot first guys who are most effective in the middle of the ice. The guy playing opposite Kessel needs to be a big body that excels in the corners and can crash the crease. Asking Gunnarsson to replace Beauchemin is extremely ambitious... we would've been better served waiting a year and seeing if he actually can do it when somebody gets hurt.

On the Gunnarson replacing Beauchemin topic, is it really that ambitious? Beauchmin while he was here in his one full season didn't pass 30 points and was a minus player. I could see Gunner producing more or about equal to Beauchemins 26 points and Gunner hopefully can be as good or better defensively. HE also comes cheaper.
 

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