Which team takes the biggest step back this year?

[LeafFever]

Stop claiming that like it’s some fact. It’s been proven wrong many times over on this thread. Go read instead of getting triggered

Not only is this untrue, it's been proven it was the same last summer.

 

[zeke]

Stop claiming that like it’s some fact. It’s been proven wrong many times over on this thread. Go read instead of getting triggered

It is a fact.

An obvious fact.

The Leafs have a good argument to be considered the team most likely to improve this year.

them being mentioned even once in this thread is an embarrassment to you and to hfboards.

 

[Echo Roku]

Okay I will admit I used hyperbole in describing it. That is fair, it wasn't literally everyone that was saying this but there absolutely was a lot of talk about the Leafs regressing last off season. I am not going to go searching for year old threads to find proof(Can you even after the migration?) because I actually do not care whether people think the Leafs are going to regress or not. Like not even a little bit. You can believe or not believe that there was a lot of talk about it last year.

A lot of talk you paid attention to.

Just look at LeafFever. Leafs have been mentioned as being one of the more likely like a half dozen times or something and now suddenly it’s the number one definitely going to regress team according to the boards

Even the best thread he could find from last year was mostly people who thought they could go either way

Chances are you just give more attention to Leafs negativity outside of the fan base. So everything just seems worse because it’s all you two here pay attention to to define things on.

 

[Echo Roku]

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...ely-to-make-the-playoffs-next-season.2363683/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/134010127/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/134012911/
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/134021224/

And this guy had it right:
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/134027056/

Goodie. You found less than a handful of posts being negative (not even doing what you claim) and now the entire thread declares they’re number one?

Try again

 

[Echo Roku]

Not only is this untrue, it's been proven it was the same last summer.

Claiming things don’t make them suddenly true

 

[LeafFever]

Claiming things don’t make them suddenly true

Can you name teams mentioned more in this thread? And not just 1, it sounds ike you believe they are not getting many mentions on here.
Your turn to provide proof.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

A lot of talk you paid attention to.

Just look at LeafFever. Leafs have been mentioned as being one of the more likely like a half dozen times or something and now suddenly it’s the number one definitely going to regress team according to the boards

Even the best thread he could find from last year was mostly people who thought they could go either way

Chances are you just give more attention to Leafs negativity outside of the fan base. So everything just seems worse because it’s all you two here pay attention to to define things on.

Like I said I don't care if people think the Leafs will regress. It doesn't actually have any meaningful impact on anything at all. People are wrong all the time and what people think about the Leafs does not matter at all to me or to how the team will actually perform. I would also like to add that I haven't complained about any of the posts in this thread or even complained about what people posted last year. Just pointing out that it did happen last year, and yes I would remember posters saying it about the Leafs more so then any other team because I am a fan of the Leafs. That much seems pretty obvious.

 

[Echo Roku]

there is no reasonable explanation for a team with the biggest free agent add in recent memory, and the youngest elite core talent in the league, to even be mentioned ONCE in this thread, let alone more times than any other team in the league.

they are, however, obviously in the argument for team most likely to improve.

you, and hfboards, are embarassing yourselves.

It is a fact.

An obvious fact.

The Leafs have a good argument to be considered the team most likely to improve this year.

them being mentioned even once in this thread is an embarrassment to you and to hfboards.

The funniest part about all this is that I didn’t even list them as an option myself

I’m just not stupid enough to outright reject other opinions because I’ve staked my pride on being a homer like yourself

How about you go and trying to disprove the arguments that show it’s reasonable to think it possible over repeatedly claiming it impossible?

On your best day, all you’ve proven yourself to be here is an insecure homer

 

[Romang67]

Can you name teams mentioned more in this thread? And not just 1, it sounds ike you believe they are not getting many mentions on here.
Your turn to provide proof.

First 75 or so posts, Vegas was overwhelmingly the #1 pick to regress. Then, somehow, the topic turned to whether or not the Leafs were unfairly targeted.

 

[Echo Roku]

Can you name teams mentioned more in this thread? And not just 1, it sounds ike you believe they are not getting many mentions on here.
Your turn to provide proof.

Minnesota, Vegas, Anaheim both come to mind as obvious ones. A handful more too, likely

There, just as much proof as you think is necessary

 

[Echo Roku]

Like I said I don't care if people think the Leafs will regress. It doesn't actually have any meaningful impact on anything at all. People are wrong all the time and what people think about the Leafs does not matter at all to me or to how the team will actually perform. I would also like to add that I haven't complained about any of the posts in this thread or even complained about what people posted last year. Just pointing out that it did happen last year, and yes I would remember posters saying it about the Leafs more so then any other team because I am a fan of the Leafs. That much seems pretty obvious.

Just seems like you’re admitting to it all, but trying to be nonchalant about it

Not that its a lie. The “everyone’s against us but I don’t care and will persevere” is definitely one way it can manifest

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Just seems like you’re admitting to it all, but trying to be nonchalant about it

Not that its a lie. The “everyone’s against us but I don’t care and will persevere” is definitely one way it can manifest

No it's more so I understand everyone is going to have opinions....I can either put weight into those opinions or I can not. I choose not too. It goes the other way as well. Me thinking the Leafs will be a good team next year doesn't mean a damn thing either. It is what it is and people bickering about regression on a website will never come to an actually agreement and nobody will ever actually be proven right or wrong. Has nothing to with me thinking everyone is against us because I do not actually think everyone is against the Leafs.

 

[Echo Roku]

No it's more so I understand everyone is going to have opinions....I can either put weight into those opinions or I can not. I choose not too. It goes the other way as well. Me thinking the Leafs will be a good team next year doesn't mean a damn thing either. It is what it is and people bickering about regression on a website will never come to an actually agreement and nobody will ever actually be proven right or wrong. Has nothing to with me thinking everyone is against us because I do not actually think everyone is against the Leafs.

You’re still embracing the us against them mentality... :/

Rejecting the hypobolic version of everyone being against you and trying to downplay its significance to you doesn’t change that you actively just set up a mindset like that

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You’re still embracing the us against them mentality... :/

Rejecting the hypobolic version of everyone being realistic and trying to downplay its significance to you doesn’t change that you actively just set up a mindset like that

I am not though. I don't hold this mindset solely in this conversation. Or even just with the Leafs. Hell my opinion on other teams in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean a damn thing either. It has nothing to do with me having an us against them mentality and more so a mentality that for the most part you aren't going to change someones opinion on something....especially in the middle of the summer. So I just don't see the point, let people hold whatever damn opinion they want right or wrong and in the end most of us will be wrong anyways.

 

[Echo Roku]

I am not though. I don't hold this mindset solely in this conversation. Or even just with the Leafs. Hell my opinion on other teams in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean a damn thing either. It has nothing to do with me having an us against them mentality and more so a mentality that for the most part you aren't going to change someones opinion on something....especially in the middle of the summer. So I just don't see the point, let people hold whatever damn opinion they want right or wrong and in the end most of us will be wrong anyways.

You’re not actually refuting what was said... :/

Whatever. You seem blatantly like one that could never accept what you’re doing despite doing it right in front of others’ faces

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You’re not actually refuting what was said... :/

Whatever. You seem blatantly like one that could never accept what you’re doing despite doing it right in front of others’ faces

No. You just seem intent on trying to infer what I am saying as something entirely different then what I actually am saying. Like I am not sure why you seem to think me legitimately not caring if people think the Leafs will regress is having some kind of victim mentality? I do not see the logic in that at all but you seem to be not taking that at face value. That's on you and I probably won't be able to convince you otherwise anyways.

 

[Echo Roku]

No. You just seem intent on trying to infer what I am saying as something entirely different then what I actually am saying. Like I am not sure why you seem to think me legitimately not caring if people think the Leafs will regress is having some kind of victim mentality? I do not see the logic in that at all but you seem to be not taking that at face value. That's on you and I probably won't be able to convince you otherwise anyways.

Because caring or not doesn’t contradict how you choose to frame dissent

It’s like I accused someone of murder and they claimed it was painless, and that I was just saying it was murder because it was painless

Obviously not as extreme, but yeah

 

[b in vancouver]

Not sure why anyone is saying Anaheim. That team was riddled with injuries last year and made the playoffs. For the first half of the season they were icing half their AHL line-up. And it wasn't just depth guys injured, they were constantly missing guys from the top of the line-up.
Boston was the same way for the first 30 games or so - but Anaheim had it worse.

 

[dubey]

Like I said I don't care if people think the Leafs will regress. It doesn't actually have any meaningful impact on anything at all. People are wrong all the time and what people think about the Leafs does not matter at all to me or to how the team will actually perform. I would also like to add that I haven't complained about any of the posts in this thread or even complained about what people posted last year. Just pointing out that it did happen last year, and yes I would remember posters saying it about the Leafs more so then any other team because I am a fan of the Leafs. That much seems pretty obvious.

Came in here just to see how many people would mention the Leafs as being a team to regress after signing one of the best players in the league

Didn't have to go further than a single page to see it lol

 

[zeke]

The funniest part about all this is that I didn’t even list them as an option myself

I’m just not stupid enough to outright reject other opinions because I’ve staked my pride on being a homer like yourself

How about you go and trying to disprove the arguments that show it’s reasonable to think it possible over repeatedly claiming it impossible?

On your best day, all you’ve proven yourself to be here is an insecure homer

Obviously idiotic arguments don't need disproving.

And, I agree that there is a whole lot of hilarious insecurity on display in this thread.

 

[Echo Roku]

Obviously idiotic arguments don't need disproving.

And, I agree that there is a whole lot of hilarious insecurity on display in this thread.

“Idiotic” = anything you dislike, clearly

If you’re doing to chicken out, feel free to run away like LeafFever has done plenty of times

 

[zeke]

“Idiotic” = anything you dislike, clearly

If you’re doing to chicken out, feel free to run away like LeafFever has done plenty of times

idiotic = idiotic

I'm not going to go onto a flat earth thread and argue with them either, but I will mock them.

If this were a reasonable thread about which teams are the most likely to be improved this year, then the Leafs would be the lead contender, and I would enjoy explaining why and arguing about it

But here? I came into this thread only to mock the embarassing leafs hate.

 

[blueberrie]

First 75 or so posts, Vegas was overwhelmingly the #1 pick to regress. Then, somehow, the topic turned to whether or not the Leafs were unfairly targeted.

Probably because they and the ducks were the next tier of declining teams and people were wondering if the Leafs really had one of the 5 worst off-seasons of any NHL teams.

I mean, they have more mentions than the Islanders over that same reference frame so I'm not sure what's so confusing about the Leaf push back.

 

[TDK67]

Apart from this being your usual crap about how you're not getting answers (despite the fact that and I many others time and time again have given you answers after which you tend to not respond, disappear for a while, then come back and claim the same thing again), you should probably not use the stat that the Leafs had the 4th worst xGA/60 in the entire league when trying to argue that your D wasn't bad.

But since you asked: The Leafs had the 4th worst xGA/60 in the entire league because their D was bad. That's why a team described as having a horrible D can have #'s like that.

Oof.

Guess who was tied with the Leafs for the 4th worst xGA/60 in the entire league? Washington. Both teams had an identical xGA/60 of 2.56.

"Oof."

Guess what team had the 9th worst xGA/60 with 2.50 in the entire league despite having one of the best d-pairings and a Vezina-caliber goalie? Columbus.

That 0.06 difference amounts to about 4 less "expected" goals at 5v5 in a season. Do people think Washington had a Cup caliber defensive core and/or system? How about Columbus? How about Pittsburgh, San Jose or LA? Those latter three all fall into a "middle of the pack" tier of xGA/60 that only amounts to about 10-12 less "expected" goals at 5v5 in a season (vs Toronto). Remember, that's over the course of a whole season. In a 7 game playoff series those differences might statistically amount to 1 TOTAL "expected goal against" over 7 games at 5v5.

On the top end of xGA/60--guess who comfortably lead the league with a 1.95 xGA/60? Minnesota, who got throttled by Winnipeg in 5 games. Guess who were comfortably in 2nd & 3rd place for xGA/60? Dallas & St Louis, who didn't even make the playoffs. Boston was number 4 and they barely held on to beat a "defensively horrible" Leafs squad before getting easily spanked by Tampa in round 2.

That wasn't what LeafFever was arguing though. The poster was (falsely) claiming that posters are going against statistics when saying that the Leafs' D was bad last year. While hilariously pointing to an absolutely dreadful xGA/60 as proof that their D wasn't bad.

I'm quoting and highlighting your follow up comment here because it furthers my point above--which is that spouting team rankings in various stats is a pretty pointless practice. In fact, I wish more people would look at the actual numbers because the league having such a high level of parity means that most teams aren't actually separated by much (statistically speaking).

Lastly, the Leafs are definitely not defensive stalwarts by any means, but like others have said, they're nowhere near as bad as many HF posters claim. So statistically a "step back" (let alone the "biggest step back") doesn't actually make much sense given the Leafs changes in the offseason.

They lost 3 of their worst play drivers in Polak, Martin & Komarov (bottom of the team and negative in both CF% and relCF%) and 2 of their most sheltered players in Bozak & JVR. In their place they added an elite #1C and will be promoting (positive shot differential) 2-way wingers in Johnsson, Kap, & Brown. Their young core avoided sophomore slumps (while Rielly took a big step forward) and should continue to trend up as none of Matthews, Marner or Nylander are anywhere near their prime. Outside of catastrophic injuries to several stars and/or Andersen, they really should be one of the least likely candidates for a step back next year.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

you know I wasn't apart of that boat but reading this thread makes me believe it

A worse team with John ****ing Tavares added, when you thought you've seen it alm

Resist, resist, resist !

Don't be part of the lemmings !

And you probably meant "a part" rather than "apart" which has the opposite meaning.