Which scenario do you prefer? Lottery Pick or Playoff spot?

[BB88]

Because he has played 0 NHL games at center, or even in the NCAA. Seeing is believing.


That’s the scary part.

They can take a step forward in the AHL.

They can have success in the AHL, much like Buffalo is doing now - or Werenski and Bjorkstrand did back in the day.

No. But you don’t need rock bottom to get there.

But you didn’t answer me previously exactly which of Johnson, Sillinger or Boqvist is goinf to see Cleveland?
Johnson& Sillinger are your best forward prospects by a country mile and they both most likely will be in the NHL and Boqvist 100% will be.

There’s like 5 teams going full tank modes and then you have easy 5-7 teams that are way worse or worse than you clearly on paper.

So how much more do you value a 10th overall over 15-17th overall?
As much that you wouldn’t mind seeing your best prospects fail.

& how exactly are Zib or RoR trades scary?
Jarmo has been a monster on trades, all the Panarin trades, both Jones trades, PLD trade and so on

 

[Cowumbus]

But you didn’t answer me previously exactly which of Johnson, Sillinger or Boqvist is goinf to see Cleveland?
Johnson& Sillinger are your best forward prospects by a country mile and they both most likely will be in the NHL and Boqvist 100% will be.

I’d send all of them (if I was tanking)

There’s like 5 teams going full tank modes and then you have easy 5-7 teams that are way worse or worse than you clearly on paper.

I see AZ, CHI, MTL, SEA, SJS and Philly as worse.

So how much more do you value a 10th overall over 15-17th overall?

I answered this 1000x. I don’t, if those are the options I’ll take the playoffs.

As much that you wouldn’t mind seeing your best prospects fail.

Just read the post again man.

& how exactly are Zib or RoR trades scary?
Jarmo has been a monster on trades, all the Panarin trades, both Jones trades, PLD trade and so on

Because some of our most valuable pieces aren’t NHL guys.

 

[BB88]

I’d send all of them (if I was tanking)

I see AZ, CHI, MTL, SEA, SJS and Philly as worse.

I answered this 1000x. I don’t, if those are the options I’ll take the playoffs.

Just read the post again man.

Because some of our most valuable pieces aren’t NHL guys.

I’m having a difficult time understanding your vision here.

It sounds like you want a full tank with at the risk of your star prospects development& instead of building an attractive team they should be closer to laughing stock of the league.

& I didn’t say Jarmo should trade for a 1C like them now, but if Johnson, Sillinger, Belluz fail to develop and form a real 1-2 duo you know those types of players are available all the time and Jarmo is a monster at those trades

 

[CBJWerenski8]

’ve learned that after 20 years of being a middling team, people are still wanting to be a middling team by “just making” the playoffs.

How far do you expect to get without a 1C? Show me a team that has won without a #1 center. Guess where you draft those guys? Guess how many franchise C are in 2023..

I was around far before we were a “middling” team. We have only been “middling” since jarmo has been here. That’s not been that long. People seem to forget that this team was absolutely dreadful for 14 years.

You need a #1C yes, but not every 1C is drafted in the top 5. You just watched “generational” talent (hockey canadas words not mine) at center drop to #4 in the draft.

The team has never had this much top end talent in its history. This team has never had this rich of a prospect pool In it’s history.

 

[Cowumbus]

I’m having a difficult time understanding your vision here.

It sounds like you want a full tank with at the risk of your star prospects development& instead of building an attractive team they should be closer to laughing stock of the league.

& I didn’t say Jarmo should trade for a 1C like them now, but if Johnson, Sillinger, Belluz fail to develop and form a real 1-2 duo you know those types of players are available all the time and Jarmo is a monster at those trades

My vision is not related to the poll.

I would say stay the course, sell some guys. The team would finish maybe 5-9OA.

 

[Cowumbus]

I was around far before we were a “middling” team. We have only been “middling” since jarmo has been here. That’s not been that long. People seem to forget that this team was absolutely dreadful for 14 years.

So we should be happy with middling because we were shit for 13 years?

You need a #1C yes, but not every 1C is drafted in the top 5. You just watched “generational” talent (hockey canadas words not mine) at center drop to #4 in the draft.

You’re not wrong. But this sentence here gets me.

The team has never had this much top end talent in its history. This team has never had this rich of a prospect pool In it’s history.

Eh.
When Jenner/Murray/Wennberg /Dano/Rychel/Milano were our prospects people were pretty high on them.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

So we should be happy with middling because we were shit for 13 years?

You’re not wrong. But this sentence here gets me.

Eh.
When Jenner/Murray/Wennberg /Dano/Rychel/Milano were our prospects people were pretty high on them.

Yes. You have to walk before you can run. Our “window” to compete isn’t even open yet. Jarmo inherited most of his first “core” and now this is his.

Why? A *gasp* WINGER went first overall.

Yeah but only Murray was drafted in the top 5 so the rest was garbage.

 

[BB88]

My vision is not related to the poll.

I would say stay the course, sell some guys. The team would finish maybe 5-9OA.

That’s not realistic at all.

Unless you are selling 2 core guys and not seeing any improvement from your kids

& that’s not staying the course, that’s taking a step back.

I just don’t understand why you want them to crash and burn.

 

[Ippenator]

That’s not realistic at all.

Unless you are selling 2 core guys and not seeing any improvement from your kids

& that’s not staying the course, that’s taking a step back.

I just don’t understand why you want them to crash and burn.

I absolutely agree with you. Now Columbus has got a real superstar in Gaudreau, a star defenceman in Werenski and most probably Columbus will keep Laine, who can be another true star, especially if he gets to play a lot with a true world class playmaker.

At the same time Columbus has very talented young center prospects and defenceman prospects. I see it as absolutely insane to waste the best years of their star players and also miss the opportunity to let those very talented youngster get to play in the NHL with those star players, learning and gaining confidence with exactly playing with those star players at their best. To me it would be an absolute waste to put Sillinger and Johnson to the AHL, and in fact I believe that at least Jiricek out of the very talented defensive prospects should get already a true shot at the NHL team this season.

Anyway, if you want a player to learn to become a true star 1st liner or 1st pair defenceman, AHL is rarely the place to develop. It’s a good place for some future middle sixers or bottom sixers to refine their game, but if you have some real gem talents that are expected to become your star 1st liners, you should never send them to the AHL - unless your team is absolutely stacked with talent already. This is hardly the case in Columbus.

 

[koteka]

I think the teams that are definitely worse than the Jackets are Montreal, Arizona, Chicago, Philadelphia, Seattle, and San Jose.

There are a bunch of teams that are on the upswing - CBJ, New Jersey, Ottawa, Anaheim, Buffalo, and Detroit.

There are some teams I cant figure out - Islanders, Vancouver, Nashville, and Vegas.

Winnepeg and Calgary deserve there own category as they could be looking pretty good, but they are losing players and or fearing they will lose players.

There are some aging teams that will one day fall — Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston, Dallas.

Ans a bunch of teams definitely better than Columbus - Tampa, Carolina, Colorado, St Louis, Minnesota, Toronto, Rangers, Edmonton, Florida, LA.

We still have huge questions about our goalies, our defense, our centers, and our head coach. Our biggest strength is our very good and very deep group of wings.

I think we will finish between 15th and 26th. I would not be at all surprised if we we ended up with a higher draft pick than last year.

I am high on the CBJ’s future. I just think it will take a couple more years to see playoff team caliber improvement.

Next year has what looks like an incredible group of centers. I don’t know how many guy would have been drafted 1st overall this year if they were able to be drafted, but I would say definitely 4 and potentially more.

I am not really answering the question. I would love to see some combination of Johnson, Sillinger, and Texier looking like good top 6 centers. I’d like to see a couple of defensemen who were way over their heads last year take a big step forward. I would love to see Gaudreau and Laine find some sort of magic. I’d be really happy if a goalie plays well and stays healthy all year and we get good enough play from a back up. But I don’t expect all those things to happen.

The realist in me expects we’ll pick 10th and just miss out on the centers I really like.

 

[EDM]

This is an easy answer: playoffs. You don’t want us to stink up the joint after adding “Johnny Hockey”. I DO NOT want to hear, “yeah they got Gaudreau but still the same old Jackets”. I don’t want to read the articles about “does Johnny regret his choice?” Hell no!!!! Go for it. Let Friedman write about how Gaudreau has lifted the Jackeys to another level. No more if the “same old Jacketd” articles.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

I know there were some great memories involved but I think this core is significantly better than what we had in 2016-2019. I think the only thing that was better about the prior core was Seth Jones vs this hole on defense that we hope can be filled by Jiricek, Ceulemans, or Mateychuk. The overall grit and intangibles of that group have been replaced by high high end skill. I think this team has significantly higher potential and the kinds of tweaks that will be needed are the short term acquisitions that can be done when the time is right.

This team isn’t lacking star quality that you can normally only get from the top of the draft. We should have an elite PP1 that can rival any in the league this year, a U23 D group going forward that stacks up with just about any in the league, and forward prospects like Johnson, Marchenko, and Voronkov that all project to be top 9 players within a year or so that we haven’t seen at the NHL level yet.

 

[BB88]

I absolutely agree with you. Now Columbus has got a real superstar in Gaudreau, a star defenceman in Werenski and most probably Columbus will keep Laine, who can be another true star, especially if he gets to play a lot with a true world class playmaker.

At the same time Columbus has very talented young center prospects and defenceman prospects. I see it as absolutely insane to waste the best years of their star players and also miss the opportunity to let those very talented youngster get to play in the NHL with those star players, learning and gaining confidence with exactly playing with those star players at their best. To me it would be an absolute waste to put Sillinger and Johnson to the AHL, and in fact I believe that at least Jiricek out of the very talented defensive prospects should get already a true shot at the NHL team this season.

Anyway, if you want a player to learn to become a true star 1st liner or 1st pair defenceman, AHL is rarely the place to develop. It’s a good place for some future middle sixers or bottom sixers to refine their game, but if you have some real gem talents that are expected to become your star 1st liners, you should never send them to the AHL - unless your team is absolutely stacked with talent already. This is hardly the case in Columbus.

I was thinking about the excitement that’s building up in Columbus.

Get Gaudreau& Werenski locked up longterm, Laine hopefully as well.
Have a stacked prospect pool.

To have all the momentun after Gaudreau signing to turn around and tank, like what.
That’s like taking the wind out of the team

Columbus needs stability and winning culture far far more than 5 spots better pick

 

[NotCommitted]

Why should I have any confidence in Jarmo drafting outside the top 10? He has not gotten anyone close to Pasta/McAvoy/Bennett

Boston had guys left over from their 2011 cup team… that’s why their team was better. Buffalo had one pick in the top 5 during that time and it was Sam Bennett. Every top 5 pick Buffalo has had has been a hit.

If every top5 pick they had was a hit and they had several and I look at where they are now and have been for about 10 years... Yeah, I'll take a round of playoffs please.

 

[Ippenator]

I was thinking about the excitement that’s building up in Columbus.

Get Gaudreau& Werenski locked up longterm, Laine hopefully as well.
Have a stacked prospect pool.

To have all the momentun after Gaudreau signing to turn around and tank, like what.
That’s like taking the wind out of the team

Columbus needs stability and winning culture far far more than 5 spots better pick

As I said, I agreed with your points. Just added some points that I believe to be important as well.

 

[BB88]

As I said, I agreed with your points. Just added some points that I believe to be important as well.

I understood that.

Overall just in a different way to my previous post I wanted to say out loud I don’t understand why some fans would want to kill all this momentun

 

[Nanabijou]

I understood that.

Overall just in a different way to my previous post I wanted to say out loud I don’t understand why some fans would want to kill all this momentun

Yeah, I’m not getting this either. CBJ have had 5 first round picks the last two years, just signed a top forward in the league. Why are we talking about choosing to be a lottery team? I don’t expect the tan to be a cup favorite this year but I’m all in with them trying to make the playoffs and see what happens. Hopefully, we see continued growth from the team the next few years just with what they have, no need to hope for a step back now.

 

[Viqsi]

Yeah, I’m not getting this either. CBJ have had 5 first round picks the last two years, just signed a top forward in the league. Why are we talking about choosing to be a lottery team? I don’t expect the tan to be a cup favorite this year but I’m all in with them trying to make the playoffs and see what happens. Hopefully, we see continued growth from the team the next few years just with what they have, no need to hope for a step back now.

Gamblers are never satisfied.

 

[majormajor]

Gamblers are never satisfied.

I think some folks think the safe approach is to keep sucking. They're not gamblers they're just wrong.

 

[LoneFunyan]

Preferring a lottery pick this year is *not* the same as tanking or rooting for suck.

It's as simple as saying 1) JG is not going to give us 19 points in the standings and 2) we were on a rebuild path anyway.

The signing of JG hasn't changed the trajectory of the flight, only its duration.

 

[alphafox]

Yeah, I’m not getting this either. CBJ have had 5 first round picks the last two years, just signed a top forward in the league. Why are we talking about choosing to be a lottery team? I don’t expect the tan to be a cup favorite this year but I’m all in with them trying to make the playoffs and see what happens. Hopefully, we see continued growth from the team the next few years just with what they have, no need to hope for a step back now.

I think it's less that anyone wants to take a step backward and more that people don't know if we are ready to step forward on the path toward the cup yet. Once you shift from a rebuild to opening up a cup window there really isn't a way to hit pause if you find out that you don't have the talent to really compete and if you look at the majority of truly great teams over the last decade+ you look at teams that have at least a set of elite guys (usually drafted in the top 5) who led them to be perennially in the cup conversation (Avalanche-MacKinnon #1OA, Cale Makar #4, Landeskog #2, etc.; Pens- Crosby #1 OA, Malkin #2, Staal; BlackHawks Kane #1OA, Toews #3, Seabrook #14; Tampa Bay Stamkos #1OA, Hedman #2OA,)


I think the real divide is those who think our set of picks over the last two years when added to Gaudreau, Laine and Werenski puts us at an elite level through volume of skill in the lineup vs those who look at our talent pool and see that no one we have is at the level of a peak Crosby, Mackinnon, Toews, or Stamkos and doesn't feel you can sustain a "dynasty" without someone like that.

 

[Viqsi]

I think some folks think the safe approach is to keep sucking. They're not gamblers they're just wrong.

I legitimately cannot comprehend the sort of mind that could somehow come to that conclusion.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Ans a bunch of teams definitely better than Columbus - Tampa, Carolina, Colorado, St Louis, Minnesota, Toronto, Rangers, Edmonton, Florida, LA.

Minnesota is entering cap hell - $12.7m in dead cap this year and then $14.7m the next two years. Their starting goalie, while only two years removed from winning the Vezina, turns 38 in November and they just shipped out their other goalie. They had to move out their 85-point winger because of their cap issues.

If Hartman and Zuccarello (now 34, btw) don't have career years again or Fleury starts to lose the race to Father Time...look out.

 

[EspenK]

I legitimately cannot comprehend the sort of mind that could somehow come to that conclusion.

We have been through this numerous times in the past. The big winning streak to finish a season, knocking off TB & playing Boston tough are two of the momentum builders that would carry the CBJ to greater heights. How did they work out? Give me a top 5 pick next year and I'll be much more optimistic about the team than if they aqueak into the playoffs and are quickly ousted. I legitimately cannot comprehend the sort of mind that can't come to that conclusion

 

[Viqsi]

We have been through this numerous times in the past. The big winning streak to finish a season, knocking off TB & playing Boston tough are two of the momentum builders that would carry the CBJ to greater heights. How did they work out? Give me a top 5 pick next year and I'll be much more optimistic about the team than if they aqueak into the playoffs and are quickly ousted. I legitimately cannot comprehend the sort of mind that can't come to that conclusion

You misunderstand. To me that is inherently a gamble to go for that pick. You're taking extreme chances with player development and progression and with where you pick in the draft. It's the idea that that is somehow a "safe" move that to me is just incomprehensible. It sounds to me like someone describing tightrope walking over Niagara Falls as a "safe" move.