Which players would be superstars no matter what team they play on?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by The Cheat, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. Algernop Kreider

    Algernop Kreider Ant strength

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    New York
    Why does his shooting percentage mean that he isn't a superstar? Here are the shooting percentages of the top 5 goal scorers:

    Seguin - 19.8%
    Nash - 20.0%
    Tarasenko - 16.3%
    Stamkos - 17.8%
    Malkin - 20.0%

    Everyone on this list is shooting at an abnormally high percentage. Who cares? You wouldn't say Stamkos doesn't deserve to be considered one of the league's top scorers just because of his shooting percentage.

    The fact is, in Nash has played two full seasons in NY: one where he was on pace for 36G+36A, and one where he had concussion issues all year. This season, he's been the best player on the ice as often as not. He has absolutely been playing like a superstar.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
  2. BoltNutt

    BoltNutt Boltnutt

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Texas
    Except players like Stamkos have a career average of 17.5% shooting percentage.

    Nash has a career average of 12.6%, so he is overachieving at the moment... and will mostly likely come back down once the season is over.
     
  3. DL44

    DL44 Status quo

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    16,091
    Likes Received:
    1,991
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    All offensive based superstars are superstars on any team in the league. Superstars are superstars... Your Seguins, Malkins, Crosbys, Sedins, Kessels, prime Thornton, P Kane, Tavares, etc, etc....

    Defensive / 2-way "superstars" and most goalies would take a significant reputation hit when placed on much poorer teams than their currently stacked ones... Toews, Bergerons, Kopitars...
     
  4. BigBen

    BigBen Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I know this is the opposite of what you're asking, but I don't think Seguin would be where he is without Benn. He would still be great, just not over a PPG.
     
  5. TomDelonge

    TomDelonge Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,068
    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    Define "superstar"

    Agree about the majority opinion on Nash, the man has proven his ability on every team he has been apart of, and while may not have lived up to his hype, still a fantastic player.

    Toews "superstar" status would take a hit. Swap him with Mikko Koivu or Patrick Marleau and Hawks still win the Cup, and Toews is still regarded as a top two way center in the game, but not nearly given the praise and status he has achieved today.
     
  6. TomDelonge

    TomDelonge Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,068
    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    Seguin may or may not be where he is now without Benn, that is up for debate. However, I don't think you could ever take away Seguin's star status, even if the trade never happened. He has always been in the spotlight.
     
  7. FytinSioux

    FytinSioux Blackhawksssssss

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Occupation:
    College
    Location:
    ND
    But they sacrifice offensive production for defensive responsibility. Nobody asks Kessel or Kane to go out against the other teams top line to try and shut them down. Kessel and Kane are asked to go out and put up points, the defensive responsibility is left for others on the ice. Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar excel defensively so that is part of their role. There's no doubt in my mind Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar could put up more points if that was all they were asked to do.
     
  8. TomDelonge

    TomDelonge Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,068
    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    One of the funniest misconceptions on this board.
     
  9. Stickpucker

    Stickpucker Playmaka

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    6,081
    Likes Received:
    12,219
    Trophy Points:
    126
    I think Toews would be a 20 g 30 a player on the Hurricanes. Would he still be a superstar then?
     
  10. DL44

    DL44 Status quo

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    16,091
    Likes Received:
    1,991
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Location:
    Location: Location:
    most definitely.

    Pretty much my point.


    The superstars of the league that would be superstars on any and every team are the high end offensive players. Others would fade and their perceived effectiveness would fade or be tied to the strength of their teams.
     
  11. Pip

    Pip Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    65,213
    Likes Received:
    2,306
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Granduland
    Agreed
     
  12. terex

    terex Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In Toews's case, put him with Crosby's wingers and he would struggle to put up 40 points. Toews would be a very good player, but not a star in the league, if he didn't play for a powerhouse.
     
  13. terex

    terex Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So much of Toews's "star power" is reputation. Swap him and Jordan Staal at the 06 draft, and it's not unthinkable that Staal becomes the leader of the Hawks and Toews plays as a 3C (or even is converted to wing) in Pittsburgh before moving on in free agency.

    I'm not saying Staal and Toews are equivalent right now, or really ever were. I'm saying the Hawks would still be a great team with Staal, and Toews would still be a very good two-way forward. Just without the mystique/"intangibles."
     
  14. leafsrock67

    leafsrock67 Tank Nation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    34
    Chris Kunitz
     
  15. FreeBird

    FreeBird Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    7,448
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Any player drafted by the Leafs is immediately canonized.
    I'll now Duck as incoming weaponry has lit up my desk top. :help: :help:
     
  16. AnimalFear

    AnimalFear Registered User

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,597
    Likes Received:
    319
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Getzlaf, Doughty, Karlsson, Stamkos, Weber, Datsyuk, Toews, Kane, Bergeron, maybe others. I want to say Ovechkin, but I can imagine him being torn to shreds were he in Edmonton with no good center and an awful coach and defense.
     
  17. Algernop Kreider

    Algernop Kreider Ant strength

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    222
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    New York
    Ovechkin would hold up without Backstrom better than Toews would without Hossa and Sharp.
     
  18. SelanneDucks8

    SelanneDucks8 Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Florida
    Homer vote for Getzlaf... And a vote for stammer
     
  19. MakeTheGoalsLarger

    MakeTheGoalsLarger Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,433
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Location:
    Antarctica
    take out 2 good players from any team and that team wouldn't be as good .

    what you're saying doesn't prove anything.
     
  20. Viqsi

    Viqsi where we're going we don't need draft picks

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    40,206
    Likes Received:
    8,700
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Jackets 1st, Preds 2nd
    Location:
    Kölumboos
    Kind of a trick question, since generally such folks are presumed to be disqualified for recognition as "superstars". The thread might as well be called "Which so-called superstars aren't actually superstars?" ;)
     
  21. Chris Hansen

    Chris Hansen THESE LEGS ARE FRESH

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    10,535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seriously?

    You think Jonathan Toews would put up just 50 points playing... what, like 21 minutes a game and getting tons of PP time? The guy put up 24-30-54 in in 64 games as a rookie playing 18:40 per game on a mediocre Blackhawks team that missed the playoffs.
    As a rookie. He's a much better player today than he was then.

    50 points?
    HF HF'ing hard.
     
  22. Maplebeasts

    Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    12,286
    Likes Received:
    2,836
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Barrie, Ontario
    If you blanket an entire fan base off the words of a few, especially with this whole "Leaf fans are the only fans that overhype their players/prospects" bologna, you probably deserve all of the flak incoming from them. Think before you post
     
  23. Eazy for Kuzy

    Eazy for Kuzy Registered User

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    26,471
    Likes Received:
    3,927
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ovechkin lit up the league in his rookie year on a Caps team barely better than today's Oilers.

    He scored 52 goals and 102 points with Dainius Zubrus and Chris Clark. He'd still score a lot playing with Hall and RNH. I'm guessing his numbers don't change much.
     
  24. gphr513

    gphr513 Watch the world burn

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    17,701
    Likes Received:
    599
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    The Canadian ones.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"