Which players would be superstars no matter what team they play on?

[Algernop Kreider]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Nash hardly qualifies as a superstar imo. He played on a bad team in CBJ but I bet you his stats were inflated from being the only option offensively on the team. He most likely saw a ton of ice time, loads of time on the pp, CBJ players probably gave him the puck a lot more than if they had more than one really good player. He's shooting about 20% on the season, which is much higher an his career average. He also was lousy last season and has only reached ppg for a year twice.

Why does his shooting percentage mean that he isn't a superstar? Here are the shooting percentages of the top 5 goal scorers:

Seguin - 19.8%
Nash - 20.0%
Tarasenko - 16.3%
Stamkos - 17.8%
Malkin - 20.0%

Everyone on this list is shooting at an abnormally high percentage. Who cares? You wouldn't say Stamkos doesn't deserve to be considered one of the league's top scorers just because of his shooting percentage.

The fact is, in Nash has played two full seasons in NY: one where he was on pace for 36G+36A, and one where he had concussion issues all year. This season, he's been the best player on the ice as often as not. He has absolutely been playing like a superstar.

 

[BoltNutt]

Why does his shooting percentage mean that he isn't a superstar? Here are the shooting percentages of the top 5 goal scorers:

Seguin - 19.8%
Nash - 20.0%
Tarasenko - 16.3%
Stamkos - 17.8%
Malkin - 20.0%

Everyone on this list is shooting at an abnormally high percentage. Who cares? You wouldn't say Stamkos doesn't deserve to be considered one of the league's top scorers just because of his shooting percentage.

The fact is, in Nash has played two full seasons in NY: one where he was on pace for 36G+36A, and one where he had concussion issues all year. This season, he's been the best player on the ice as often as not. He has absolutely been playing like a superstar.

Except players like Stamkos have a career average of 17.5% shooting percentage.

Nash has a career average of 12.6%, so he is overachieving at the moment... and will mostly likely come back down once the season is over.

 

[DL44]

All offensive based superstars are superstars on any team in the league. Superstars are superstars... Your Seguins, Malkins, Crosbys, Sedins, Kessels, prime Thornton, P Kane, Tavares, etc, etc....

Defensive / 2-way "superstars" and most goalies would take a significant reputation hit when placed on much poorer teams than their currently stacked ones... Toews, Bergerons, Kopitars...

 

[BigBen]

I know this is the opposite of what you're asking, but I don't think Seguin would be where he is without Benn. He would still be great, just not over a PPG.

 

[TomDelonge]

Define "superstar"

Agree about the majority opinion on Nash, the man has proven his ability on every team he has been apart of, and while may not have lived up to his hype, still a fantastic player.

Toews "superstar" status would take a hit. Swap him with Mikko Koivu or Patrick Marleau and Hawks still win the Cup, and Toews is still regarded as a top two way center in the game, but not nearly given the praise and status he has achieved today.

 

[TomDelonge]

I know this is the opposite of what you're asking, but I don't think Seguin would be where he is without Benn. He would still be great, just not over a PPG.

Seguin may or may not be where he is now without Benn, that is up for debate. However, I don't think you could ever take away Seguin's star status, even if the trade never happened. He has always been in the spotlight.

 

[FytinSioux]

All offensive based superstars are superstars on any team in the league. Superstars are superstars... Your Seguins, Malkins, Crosbys, Sedins, Kessels, prime Thornton, P Kane, Tavares, etc, etc....

Defensive / 2-way "superstars" and most goalies would take a significant reputation hit when placed on much poorer teams than their currently stacked ones... Toews, Bergerons, Kopitars...

But they sacrifice offensive production for defensive responsibility. Nobody asks Kessel or Kane to go out against the other teams top line to try and shut them down. Kessel and Kane are asked to go out and put up points, the defensive responsibility is left for others on the ice. Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar excel defensively so that is part of their role. There's no doubt in my mind Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar could put up more points if that was all they were asked to do.

 

[TomDelonge]

But they sacrifice offensive production for defensive responsibility. Nobody asks Kessel or Kane to go out against the other teams top line to try and shut them down. Kessel and Kane are asked to go out and put up points, the defensive responsibility is left for others on the ice. Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar excel defensively so that is part of their role. There's no doubt in my mind Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar could put up more points if that was all they were asked to do.

One of the funniest misconceptions on this board.

 

[Stickpucker]

I think Toews would be a 20 g 30 a player on the Hurricanes. Would he still be a superstar then?

 

[DL44]

One of the funniest misconceptions on this board.

most definitely.

I think Toews would be a 20 g 30 a player on the Hurricanes. Would he still be a superstar then?

Pretty much my point.


The superstars of the league that would be superstars on any and every team are the high end offensive players. Others would fade and their perceived effectiveness would fade or be tied to the strength of their teams.

 

[Pip]

One of the funniest misconceptions on this board.

Agreed

 

[terex]

Just curious - do you take the view that these guys were all mediocre on their junior, international, etc. teams and only play well on their respective NHL teams?

In Toews's case, put him with Crosby's wingers and he would struggle to put up 40 points. Toews would be a very good player, but not a star in the league, if he didn't play for a powerhouse.

 

[terex]

You do realize that without Toews and Keith the Hawks aren't nearly as good as they are? How in the world are they only superstars because of the team they play for when they're a huge part of the teams success in the first place...

So much of Toews's "star power" is reputation. Swap him and Jordan Staal at the 06 draft, and it's not unthinkable that Staal becomes the leader of the Hawks and Toews plays as a 3C (or even is converted to wing) in Pittsburgh before moving on in free agency.

I'm not saying Staal and Toews are equivalent right now, or really ever were. I'm saying the Hawks would still be a great team with Staal, and Toews would still be a very good two-way forward. Just without the mystique/"intangibles."

 

[buckridesagain*]

Getzlaf

 

[leafsrock67]

A better question would be what players are superstars based only on the team they play for? I can't think of any.

Chris Kunitz

 

[FreeBird]

Any player drafted by the Leafs is immediately canonized.
I'll now Duck as incoming weaponry has lit up my desk top.

 

[Evergreen]

Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Getzlaf, Doughty, Karlsson, Stamkos, Weber, Datsyuk, Toews, Kane, Bergeron, maybe others. I want to say Ovechkin, but I can imagine him being torn to shreds were he in Edmonton with no good center and an awful coach and defense.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Getzlaf, Doughty, Karlsson, Stamkos, Weber, Datsyuk, Toews, Kane, Bergeron, maybe others. I want to say Ovechkin, but I can imagine him being torn to shreds were he in Edmonton with no good center and an awful coach and defense.

Ovechkin would hold up without Backstrom better than Toews would without Hossa and Sharp.

 

[SelanneDucks8]

Homer vote for Getzlaf... And a vote for stammer

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

You do realize that without Toews and Keith the Hawks aren't nearly as good as they are? How in the world are they only superstars because of the team they play for when they're a huge part of the teams success in the first place...

take out 2 good players from any team and that team wouldn't be as good .

what you're saying doesn't prove anything.

 

[Viqsi]

A better question would be what players are superstars based only on the team they play for? I can't think of any.

Kind of a trick question, since generally such folks are presumed to be disqualified for recognition as "superstars". The thread might as well be called "Which so-called superstars aren't actually superstars?"

 

[Chris Hansen]

I think Toews would be a 20 g 30 a player on the Hurricanes. Would he still be a superstar then?

Seriously?

You think Jonathan Toews would put up just 50 points playing... what, like 21 minutes a game and getting tons of PP time? The guy put up 24-30-54 in in 64 games as a rookie playing 18:40 per game on a mediocre Blackhawks team that missed the playoffs.
As a rookie. He's a much better player today than he was then.

50 points?
HF HF'ing hard.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Any player drafted by the Leafs is immediately canonized.
I'll now Duck as incoming weaponry has lit up my desk top.

If you blanket an entire fan base off the words of a few, especially with this whole "Leaf fans are the only fans that overhype their players/prospects" bologna, you probably deserve all of the flak incoming from them. Think before you post

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Getzlaf, Doughty, Karlsson, Stamkos, Weber, Datsyuk, Toews, Kane, Bergeron, maybe others. I want to say Ovechkin, but I can imagine him being torn to shreds were he in Edmonton with no good center and an awful coach and defense.

Ovechkin lit up the league in his rookie year on a Caps team barely better than today's Oilers.

He scored 52 goals and 102 points with Dainius Zubrus and Chris Clark. He'd still score a lot playing with Hall and RNH. I'm guessing his numbers don't change much.

 

[gphr513]

The Canadian ones.