Which player was feared more Stevens vs Kronwall

[Machinehead]

Stevens and Matt Cooke don't belong in the same sentence. Or Wilson really.

The majority of Stevens hits were legal even by today's rules. Skates on the ice, solid contact through the body, elbows down. Everyone seems to think he ran around throwing hits all the time like his one on Kariya or Lindros. People should watch some of Lindros's biggest hits to see what players got away with in those days before they call Stevens dirty.

He was a predatory hitter for sure, but he was no Matt Cooke. Messier was a Matt Cooke, not Stevens.

And I don't chest thump about Stevens (I hated him when he played), but in terms of those kinds of hits involving the head I've also gotten older and know a lot more about the devastating impact of Post concussion syndrome.

These days people sometimes mistake hypocrisy for growth.

Why do people keep bringing up the rules?

How does that make blatant intent to injure better?

"He wasn't dirty. He *legally* tried to end careers and enjoyed doing it!"

 

[Phil Kessels Hot Dog]

This Is like comparing a cat to a bear.
Sure the cat will occasionally scratch you all too hell, but it's ultimately nothing.
One of the rare times were AINEC actually legitimately can be used.

More like comparing a turtle to a bear.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Why do people keep bringing up the rules?

How does that make blatant intent to injure better?

"He wasn't dirty. He *legally* tried to end careers and enjoyed doing it!"

Why do people bring up the rules? Because he's been compared to Matt Cooke.

And because I think it's important that he was playing the sport in a legal manner, and that most of his hits would still be legal under current NHL rules.

This is a league that named a leadership award after a guy who illegally elbowed guys in the head throughout his career. In terms of calling a player dirty, there's a long list of guys I put ahead of Stevens.

EDIT: And to be clear, I'm a Wings fan who hated Stevens when he played. He destroyed Kozlov and my favorite team's chance at winning a Cup. But these days people are basing his career on a top 10 youtube highlight reel.

 

[Matty Sundin]

Kronwall was great but Stevens was the best hitter of all time.

 

[NinjaKick]

Why do people keep bringing up the rules?

How does that make blatant intent to injure better?

"He wasn't dirty. He *legally* tried to end careers and enjoyed doing it!"

because Stevens was never suspended for a hit, he played under the rules at the time. The league allowed Stevens to do what he did. It was like letting a rabid dog off the leash imo.
now if you were to tell me that your definition of being dirty is the intent to cause serious harm... I would agree

 

[Machinehead]

Why do people bring up the rules? Because he's been compared to Matt Cooke.

And because I think it's important that he was playing the sport in a legal manner, and that most of his hits would still be legal under current NHL rules.

This is a league that named a leadership award after a guy who illegally elbowed guys in the head throughout his career. In terms of calling a player dirty, there's a long list of guys I put ahead of Stevens.

Just lol at the bolded.

I think the pearl clutching over Matt Cooke but not Stevens is just recency bias.

 

[Machinehead]

because Stevens was never suspended for a hit, he played under the rules at the time. The league allowed Stevens to do what he did. It was like letting a rabid dog off the leash imo.
now if you were to tell me that your definition of being dirty is the intent to cause serious harm... I would agree

Yes, my definition of dirty is intending to cause serious harm to other players.

Tripping is against the rules. Trying to hurt people is dirty.

 

[snipes]

because Stevens was never suspended for a hit, he played under the rules at the time. The league allowed Stevens to do what he did. It was like letting a rabid dog off the leash imo.
now if you were to tell me that your definition of being dirty is the intent to cause serious harm... I would agree

Exactly. Stevens was not a “dirty” player by the standards of the era.

He didn’t target knees like an Ulf Samuelsson, nor was he known for stick work.

When we retroactively apply today’s standards to when Stevens played, he looks like a guy that would miss 20-30 games per year in suspensions. However, back then as someone previously mentioned, the onus was on the puck carrier to keep their head up.

The way Stevens would step up and close gaps during that Devils trap era was how young D men were taught to inflict pain on puck carriers “caught in the trolley tracks”. Today of course we teach things differently given the new scientific evidence that has come out the last 10-15 years.

 

[NinjaKick]

Yes, my definition of dirty is intending to cause serious harm to other players.

Tripping is against the rules. Trying to hurt people is dirty.

no problems with that.

beautiful dog btw

 

[snipes]

Just lol at the bolded.

I think the pearl clutching over Matt Cooke but not Stevens is just recency bias.

Stevens was nothing like Cooke.

 

[Cor]

What is more dangerous? A tactical nuke, or a Molotov

 

[CupsOverCash]

I feel like Kronwall was a fantastic hitter but I think Stevens was on another level.

 

[Machinehead]

no problems with that.

beautiful dog btw

Thank you, that's Donnie.

He's Trouba's dog and our board has adopted him as a mascot. We like him better than Trouba.

Stevens was nothing like Cooke.

They go about it very different ways, I'll concede that.

Cooke is more of a rat and that has a lot to do with it. The sneaky/cheap bastards tend to draw more visceral hatred.

That being said, what Stevens did was objectively more dangerous.

 

[snipes]

Thank you, that's Donnie.

He's Trouba's dog and our board has adopted him as a mascot. We like him better than Trouba.

They go about it very different ways, I'll concede that.

Cooke is more of a rat and that has a lot to do with it. The sneaky/cheap bastards tend to draw more visceral hatred.

That being said, what Stevens did was objectively more dangerous.

Yeah that’s a better way to frame it. Cooke was a piece of shit and a rat in a cheap and gutless way.

Stevens was objectively more violent and devastating in his hits even if they were legal. Like he changed peoples lives permanently from his hits. There are handful of people in the entire 100+ year history of the NHL that could do that like Stevens. He was objectively one of the most, if not the most, ferocious and violent open ice hitters in the history of the NHL.

 

[TheAngryHank]

I feel like Kronwall was a fantastic hitter but I think Stevens was on another level.

So if they made a movie about Stevens career they would cast Anthony Hopkins , meanwhile Cooke and Marchment are knocking over liquor stores.

 

[Picklepete]

Scott Stevens by galaxies and solar systems.

True !

 

[snipes]

So if they made a movie about Stevens career they would cast Anthony Hopkins , meanwhile Cooke and Marchment are knocking over liquor stores.

While Cooke and Marchment are busy being stick up kids at a liquor store, Stevens is more like Michael Corleone running an organized crime empire if we’re using criminal comparables.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Just lol at the bolded.

I think the pearl clutching over Matt Cooke but not Stevens is just recency bias.

You can lol because you have nothing substantial to refute it with, but as someone who watched him play, it's true.

Skates on the ice, elbow tucked, solid body contact, which makes head contact incidental and unavoidable. Stevens was a nasty player, but I wouldn't call him dirty because of his hitting.

Pearl clutching? Yeah that's it. It couldn't possibly be Matt Cooke's long history that included boarding, spearing, multiple elbowing incidents, the Karlsson skate cut. He was the master of fly-bys that picked the head.

 

[Mattb124]

Steven's, if only because the hits he made that were legal at the time when played that were not when Krowall played.

 

[NinjaKick]

So if they made a movie about Stevens career they would cast Anthony Hopkins , meanwhile Cooke and Marchment are knocking over liquor stores.

she puts the lotion in the basket

 

[NinjaKick]

some people brought up Konstantinov as a better comparison... man we were absolutely robbed of a great career cut short with Konstantinov... he's the Russian Scott Stevens imo. My Dad's favorite player. Good times.

 

[El Cohiba]

Stevens by a mile. Much more complete player and was a bigger threat in open ice-- most of Kronwall's were along the boards from him pinching. Stevens threw hip checks and would kill you open ice with your head down

 

[TheAngryHank]

some people brought up Konstantinov as a better comparison... man we were absolutely robbed of a great career cut short with Konstantinov... he's the Russian Scott Stevens imo. My Dad's favorite player. Good times.

And Fischer, with Lids also on the blue line the cups would have rained down.

Edit , Vladdy was my first NHL jersey

 

[Machinehead]

You can lol because you have nothing substantial to refute it with, but as someone who watched him play, it's true.

Skates on the ice, elbow tucked, solid body contact, which makes head contact incidental and unavoidable. Stevens was a nasty player, but I wouldn't call him dirty because of his hitting.

Pearl clutching? Yeah that's it. It couldn't possibly be Matt Cooke's long history that included boarding, spearing, multiple elbowing incidents, the Karlsson skate cut. He was the master of fly-bys that picked the head.

I also watched Stevens play and I also watch hockey now.

The idea that his hits would considered clean in today's league is not even worth entertaining.

 

[lucaseider]

Dirty players have been vilified my entire life and certainly long long before.

I think the thing with Stevens is that while he was out to hurt you, he did it in a way that was much more respected. He wasn't out there targeting knees, or using his stick as a weapon, and when guys had a problem with his hits he had no problem "answering the bell" so to speak.

That being said, the way he was willing to fight is part of the intimidation factor, straight up no one wanted to fight him because he tore dudes heads off with punches.

strange, i remember stevens thinking probert was his girlfriend, since when they got together all stevens wanted to do was hold him. it's funny people saying he wasnt dirty when all he tried to do was hurt people, not hit them. When your goal is to injure someone, you are dirty, no different then the matt cookes of the world.