Which player was feared more Stevens vs Kronwall

[BudBundy]

strange, i remember stevens thinking probert was his girlfriend, since when they got together all stevens wanted to do was hold him. it's funny people saying he wasnt dirty when all he tried to do was hurt people, not hit them. When your goal is to injure someone, you are dirty, no different then the matt cookes of the world.

If your goal is to absolutely destroy someone WITHIN THE RULES, then that’s not dirty. That’s literally part of the game. If you want to talk “ethics” rather than the “rules”, the only ethic at the time was that if you knocked somebody into next week, you may be challenged to a fight. If you obliged, nobody complained. Stevens would always oblige. The rules are more strict now and that’s fine. A lot of those hits today would be penalized and thus dirty by any measure. They weren’t at the time. Get over it.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I also watched Stevens play and I also watch hockey now.

The idea that his hits would considered clean in today's league is not even worth entertaining.

Because it's correct.

Feel free to explain what violates todays rules, other than ones like Lindros and Kariya.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I mean, Stevens inspired the fear that he was going to end your career with a headshot, soooo...I guess him.

 

[NinjaKick]

Because it's correct.

Feel free to explain what violates todays rules, other than ones like Lindros and Kariya.

Stevens was known for his hits to the head. That was legal in his era... but in todays NHL it's a no go and even an instant suspension.

That said... Do I think Stevens would have hit to the head in todays NHL? absolutely not... he respected the rules. I even think Stevens would have changed his game and hit to the body much like Kronwall did.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Stevens was known for his hits to the head. That was legal in his era... but in todays NHL it's a no go and even an instant suspension.

That said... Do I think Stevens would have hit to the head in todays NHL? absolutely not... he respected the rules. I even think Stevens would have changes his game and hit to the body much like Kronwall did.

I agree he probably would have. But a lot of his hits to the head are still legal under today's rules because he caught guys with their head down and hit solidly to the body with his skates on the ice.

That's still legal.

People see his Top 10 hits on Youtube and think he had hits like on Lindros every game.

 

[983 others]

Hockey fans really, really, really need to learn what “main/principal” mean when talking about hits to the head and also what the NHL takes into consideration when looking at whether or not contact with the head was avoidable.

Once you actually understand the rules you’ll find that calling Stevens dirty, even by today’s standards, is quite silly.

 

[NinjaKick]

I agree he probably would have. But a lot of his hits to the head are still legal under today's rules because he caught guys with their head down and hit solidly to the body with his skates on the ice.

That's still legal.

People see his Top 10 hits on Youtube and think he had hits like on Lindros every game.

If Stevens hit you in the head... it was intentional. He knew what he was doing.
That said, I agree with you that he had a repertoire of hits that would be legal in today's NHL.. But he also has hits that were career changing and incredibly dangerous... Kariya and Lindros stand out immensely because those hits would have been a lengthy suspension today...
imo most of his big hits in his era were either taking advantage of the 1 2 second rule or even a blindside. Do I think Stevens would be less effective in today's NHL? absolutely not... he was a great leader and I think he wouldve adapted.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If your goal is to absolutely destroy someone WITHIN THE RULES, then that’s not dirty. That’s literally part of the game. If you want to talk “ethics” rather than the “rules”, the only ethic at the time was that if you knocked somebody into next week, you may be challenged to a fight. If you obliged, nobody complained. Stevens would always oblige. The rules are more strict now and that’s fine. A lot of those hits today would be penalized and thus dirty by any measure. They weren’t at the time. Get over it.

That's a cartoonish projection of the culture of the 80s and 90s. Despite what Rock 'Em Sock 'Em videos might have told us, people did not in fact think that a flying headshot was fine as long as it was followed up with a good fight.

When Colin Campbell took over for Brian Burke as the league's head of discipline, he talked about cracking down on cheapshots and specifically head shots which were regarded as being out-of-control since Pat Lafontaine had been knocked out of the league.

That was in 1998. Clearly headshots were enough of an issue art that time that the incoming rules chief felt the need to get rid of them. The Lindros hit was 2 years later. The Kariya hit was 5 years later.

 

[lawrence]

Scott Stevens. I rarely use AINEC but it isn’t. Stevens has ended players careers with his hits, clean when he played now would not be. He was one of those players that really intimidated teams when he played. Great player and team only guy.

Stevens. His reaction to Domi taking out Neidermayer, was so scary even Domi who is a tough guy himself was probably scared shitless.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Because it's correct.

Feel free to explain what violates todays rules, other than ones like Lindros and Kariya.

Remember in 2014ish when the Department of Player Safety itself said that Stevens hits would fit into the full body contact with some head contact category, which is allowable under todays rules?


The league itself has said that his hits (sans Lindros and Kariya) would be legal under todays rules.





Not to mention I doubt Stevens refuses to change his hitting game as the hitting rules change. A Matt Cooke or Raffi Torres he decidedly is not

 

[Anisimovs AK]

That's a cartoonish projection of the culture of the 80s and 90s. Despite what Rock 'Em Sock 'Em videos might have told us, people did not in fact think that a flying headshot was fine as long as it was followed up with a good fight.

When Colin Campbell took over for Brian Burke as the league's head of discipline, he talked about cracking down on cheapshots and specifically head shots which were regarded as being out-of-control since Pat Lafontaine had been knocked out of the league.

That was in 1998. Clearly headshots were enough of an issue art that time that the incoming rules chief felt the need to get rid of them. The Lindros hit was 2 years later. The Kariya hit was 5 years later.

And he did such a great job of eradicating headshots during his tenure, right?

 

[Hockeyholic]

Good lord. This is Stevens by a country mile. The fear he put into opponents was unmatched in NHL history.

 

[Ulysses31]

AS drw fans Stevens ainec. also helps that head shots were common in stevens era.

 

[tarheelhockey]

And he did such a great job of eradicating headshots during his tenure, right?

He did a terrible job, no question about it. Not just with headshots but also with obstruction, which was subject to a "crackdown" every preseason and then came back worse than ever after Christmas.

Colin Campbell had an under-recognized role in driving the entire NHL into a ditch.

 

[JianYang]

Stevens was looking to take your head off, and in his time, the standard of a clean hit was much more leniant.

I'd say he was more feared, in an era that had more fear.

 

[93LEAFS]

Kronwall while a better player is more comparable to someone like Kasparaitis of that era hitting wise. Stevens went high and was built like a tank. The Devil's also structured their defensive play to funnel people towards Stevens so he could destroy them in open ice.

 

[JianYang]

This your mans?

If you wanna show stevens getting his ass kicked, look for his fight against Dave Manson from the chuck norris division era.

 

[bobbyking]

Good lord. This is Stevens by a country mile. The fear he put into opponents was unmatched in NHL history.

yeah they feared not having a separated jaw bone

 

[93LEAFS]

He did a terrible job, no question about it. Not just with headshots but also with obstruction, which was subject to a "crackdown" every preseason and then came back worse than ever after Christmas.

Colin Campbell had an under-recognized role in driving the entire NHL into a ditch.

Headshots become much scarier during the 2000s partially due to the lack of obstruction. It increased the speed of play significantly through the neutral zone between removing no two-line passes and the decrease in obstruction that guys were getting absolutely blown up between the red-line and the hash marks while attacking with quite the regularity between 2005-2012. That combined with all the info that was coming out about CTE and long-term effects led to dramatic changes.

 

[vandymeer13]

Since Stevens wasn't a p***y like kronwall and backed up his play I'd say him. Kronwall also had a lot of illegal hits that were never called because he was a euro on Detroit. Stevens hits were borderline for that period where you had to back up your play. I'd say Derek Boogard was more intimidating then either. Him staring down Tim Jackman or Brad May are classic.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Headshots become much scarier during the 2000s partially due to the lack of obstruction. It increased the speed of play significantly through the neutral zone between removing no two-line passes and the decrease in obstruction that guys were getting absolutely blown up between the red-line and the hash marks while attacking with quite the regularity between 2005-2012. That combined with all the info that was coming out about CTE and long-term effects led to dramatic changes.

It wouldn't have been nearly as much of an issue if they had simply cracked down on it like they kept saying they were going to.

As soon as the NHL started enforcing serious discipline *poof* the cheap shots went away. Which kind of puts a spotlight on what was missing before.

 

[Auto Pilot]

While I liked Kronwall, it’s Stevens and it’s not even close. He won the Conn Smythe in 2000 with only 11 points in 23 games which was indicative of his physical play.
Oh and he’s listed at 6’2 215.

gotta say his most impressive hit was the one on Kozlov in the cup final in 95. Tracks him so quickly at the neutral to right near the faceoff circles in the Devils end then unloads on him.

also him taunting the wings in the bench saying you’re next to someone’s had to be intimidating given how he made Kozlov look like he was getting out of a car crash.





Btw didn’t TSN do a top 10 all time hitters count down on their channel with Stevens coming out on top with multiple NHLers talking about it?

 

[Seanaconda]

I know it's hard to believe for a player to play as physical as Stevens. But he wasn't a dirty player. He will never be mistaken as Matt Cooke.


Hiring Scott Stevens would make player safety department top heavy with bruisers - TheHockeyNews

Lots of cookes and Torres hits were legal but they got the rules changed while they were still in the league because the NFL cte scandal came out .

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Headshots become much scarier during the 2000s partially due to the lack of obstruction. It increased the speed of play significantly through the neutral zone between removing no two-line passes and the decrease in obstruction that guys were getting absolutely blown up between the red-line and the hash marks while attacking with quite the regularity between 2005-2012. That combined with all the info that was coming out about CTE and long-term effects led to dramatic changes.

This is a great point. I remember a few discussions on TSN and NHL Network around the 06-07 and 07-08 seasons where some of the sharper analysts were saying just that. McKenzie was beating the drum for harsher headshot penalties as early as 2007

 

[Anisimovs AK]

He did a terrible job, no question about it. Not just with headshots but also with obstruction, which was subject to a "crackdown" every preseason and then came back worse than ever after Christmas.

Colin Campbell had an under-recognized role in driving the entire NHL into a ditch.

Watching playoff games from 98 to 2004 are ludicrous. At that point they should have started putting referee sweaters on traffic cones to save money