Which player threw away most of his incredible talent?

[alko]

Someone "advised" him to drink some beer to gain weight, he had never had a drink before, and he IMMEDIATELY became an alcoholic.

That screams about this:

 

[psycat]

also forsberg

and i remember back in the day on coach's corner, don cherry showed this clip of roenick playing completely out of control going end to end and scoring a total beauty. and cherry goes, ok well yeah he's as exciting as anyone in the league but if he doesn't learn how to dial it back someone's going to catch him with an open ice hit while he's going all out like that and he's going to get seriously hurt. prophetic.

Don Cherry is a perfect example of "if you throw enough shit some will stick".

 

[SealsFan]

Gilles Gratton a/k/a Gratoony the Loony? I don't know if he had more talent than what he displayed in his short career when he wasn't streaking in his goalie pads during practice or discovering his past lives or growling through his lion goalie mask.

 

[Stephen]

Don Cherry is a perfect example of "if you throw enough shit some will stick".

Not really. Guys with speed to burn and a fearless/reckless play styles put themselves into vulnerable situations at higher frequency and put wear and tear on their bodies. Aside from Roenick, the same could be true of guys like Bure, Orr, Stamkos, more recently McDavid (knock on wood).

 

[JianYang]

Kovalev

/thread reopened

I listened to a kovalev podcast, and he mentioned something I found kind of interesting.

He mentioned pittsburgh and why he had more success there than anywhere else. He acknowledged that the talent around him was immense, but he also mentioned that pittsburgh was the only organization that asked kovalev to be kovalev.

Pittsburgh's mentality was that they knew kovalev was a special talent, and they didn't try to mould him into something he's not. Kovalev was over a point per game player in his pittsburgh tenure, and nobody else got that kind of production out of him.

With some players, you are just better off to let them be. I think this is sometimes the case with players who are extremely artistic.

Ken dryden talked about lafleur, and how he would be the first guy to screw up a drill in practice, but when you just let him be him, he was magical.

Alot of players need the structure, but some guys like kovalev and lafleur needed their own template. I got the sense from the podcast that kovalev unfortunately did not get that freedom for most of his career.

 

[Albatros]

Kovalev was definitely a student of the game, Dynamo coach Yurzinov actually took him to Québec as a 17-year-old to watch Lafleur from the bench during the 1991 Super Series.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Steve Kariya

Valeri Bure

Both were duds and could have been just as good as their brother superstars. Val Bure wasn't bad in some years but he could have been so much more.

 

[Albatros]

Don't forget about Keith Gretzky and Alain Lemieux...

 

[hacksaw7]

He really struggled with mental illness and depression...Stephane Richer. Still ended up with 400+ goals and 800+ points. But could've definitely been a 500+ goal guy and a Hall of Famer if he got the help he needed and didn't struggle with the ups and downs so much. Don't really want to categorize him as somebody who threw his talent away...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Steve Kariya

Valeri Bure

Both were duds and could have been just as good as their brother superstars. Val Bure wasn't bad in some years but he could have been so much more.

both were smaller than their already small brothers. on top of everything else that made their brothers better, that killed them, especially considering the era they played in.

 

[DeysArena]

Steve Kariya

Valeri Bure

Both were duds and could have been just as good as their brother superstars. Val Bure wasn't bad in some years but he could have been so much more.

Nobody who marries DJ Tanner can be considered a dud.

 

[DitchMarner]

Steve Kariya

Valeri Bure

Both were duds and could have been just as good as their brother superstars. Val Bure wasn't bad in some years but he could have been so much more.

No love for Fedor Fedorov?

 

[Retire91]

Mikhail Grigorenko could probably be considered more of a draft bust but I think he is a good example of showing promising tools, then giving about zero f%%ks when he got to the NHL to put in the work at that level. Too used to being a big fish in a small pond and when its no longer easy just phone it in.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I never thought much of him myself, even in his draft year...just didn't think he was that talented...even for that draft class...

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Mikhail Grigorenko could probably be considered more of a draft bust but I think he is a good example of showing promising tools, then giving about zero f%%ks when he got to the NHL to put in the work at that level. Too used to being a big fish in a small pond and when its no longer easy just phone it in.

From watching him play for the Avs, I’d disagree that his lack of success was from not caring. The biggest thing holding him back was that he was very timid on the ice, he had clear talent and good size, but he just couldn’t handle the physical aspect of the NHL. Was not surprised that he had success in the KHL with more space to move around, and a decreased focus on physicality.

 

[Jedub]

Was never sure exactly how much talent Nik Antropov had, but I know for SURE that he didn't make the most of it. Though he did score the 1st goal in Jets 2.0 history!

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

No love for Fedor Fedorov?

Yes add Fedor too, he had insane hype.

 

[JianYang]

He really struggled with mental illness and depression...Stephane Richer. Still ended up with 400+ goals and 800+ points. But could've definitely been a 500+ goal guy and a Hall of Famer if he got the help he needed and didn't struggle with the ups and downs so much. Don't really want to categorize him as somebody who threw his talent away...

Richer was an immense talent. He could beat you with power or finesse. It all made sense that he didn't do more after we heard that he put a gun in his mouth after winning the cup in new jersey.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Was never sure exactly how much talent Nik Antropov had, but I know for SURE that he didn't make the most of it. Though he did score the 1st goal in Jets 2.0 history!

he belongs in a continuum of really tall guys with sweet hands and not enough anything else that people drooled over in the DPE. viktor kozlov, oleg kvasha, antropov, josef vasicek...

before he broke out i thought blake wheeler was destined to be one of those guys too, though he was drafted at the very end of that era. even though he obviously turned out to be a legitimately elite player, only in the DPE could a guy on zero published top 30 prospects lists get taken fifth overall.

 

[FerrisRox]

Steve Kariya

Valeri Bure

Both were duds and could have been just as good as their brother superstars. Val Bure wasn't bad in some years but he could have been so much more.

Neither of them were even remotely close to being as talented as their brothers. There was no comparison.

 

[crobro]

Real Cloutier

 

[Claude The Fraud]

Eric Dazé?

I would say no. Dazé had back problems. He even made a return after a year or two away from the game.

 

[VanIslander]

Due to drinking
real Cloutier
Jacques RICHARD
Bill Derlago

Are you kidding me?

Reggie Leach beastied his way to an NHL record 19 playoff goals (more goals than anyone had points! he recording 8 more playoff points thsn anyone) and the CONN SMYTHE even though - despite - losing the finals to the Habs (who shut all Flyers down except Leach).

Leach had a legendary problem with alcohol. He would be a HHOFer if he could have managed his alcohol consumption.

It might stop heart attacks, but it also inhibits eye-hand coordination and training strength.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Not really. Guys with speed to burn and a fearless/reckless play styles put themselves into vulnerable situations at higher frequency and put wear and tear on their bodies. Aside from Roenick, the same could be true of guys like Bure, Orr, Stamkos, more recently McDavid (knock on wood).

The other name that comes to mind is Marner. Incredible player, and perfectly suited for this era, but if he played with the same lack of caution 10 years ago hed literally get killed by the kind of hits hed take. I still worry hes gonna get rocked someday even in the new NHL.

He really struggled with mental illness and depression...Stephane Richer. Still ended up with 400+ goals and 800+ points. But could've definitely been a 500+ goal guy and a Hall of Famer if he got the help he needed and didn't struggle with the ups and downs so much. Don't really want to categorize him as somebody who threw his talent away...

The interesting aspect of that is that it happened in Montreal back when their organization usually could do no wrong.

Was never sure exactly how much talent Nik Antropov had, but I know for SURE that he didn't make the most of it. Though he did score the 1st goal in Jets 2.0 history!

He also spent a lot of his early career in one of the most dysfunctional dressing rooms/orgs in the league so Id cut him some slack. A lot of players around the Leafs in the 2000-2015 period noticeably didnt develop right

Which speaking of, brings us to Kyle Wellwood

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I listened to a kovalev podcast, and he mentioned something I found kind of interesting.

He mentioned pittsburgh and why he had more success there than anywhere else. He acknowledged that the talent around him was immense, but he also mentioned that pittsburgh was the only organization that asked kovalev to be kovalev.

Pittsburgh's mentality was that they knew kovalev was a special talent, and they didn't try to mould him into something he's not. Kovalev was over a point per game player in his pittsburgh tenure, and nobody else got that kind of production out of him.

With some players, you are just better off to let them be. I think this is sometimes the case with players who are extremely artistic.

Ken dryden talked about lafleur, and how he would be the first guy to screw up a drill in practice, but when you just let him be him, he was magical.

Alot of players need the structure, but some guys like kovalev and lafleur needed their own template. I got the sense from the podcast that kovalev unfortunately did not get that freedom for most of his career.

Ive heard Jagr always did his own thing as well, and I’d assume you let a dude like Hasek do whatever his thing is.

Anyways, no mention of Theo Fleury yet? As great as his career was, the drinking seemingly ended it prematurely, and surely it had an effect on his play. As good as he was I think he coulda been even better.