Which player threw away most of his incredible talent?

[jcs0218]

If Eric Lindros didn't play the style that he did, he wouldn't have been the apex predator that he was. Maybe his career resume would have looked more complete if he had chosen a conventional level of skill and power and been closer to a Mats Sundin or Joe Thornton. But he also wouldn't have been Eric Lindros.

The problem with Lindros is that he was too physically dominant from a very young age, and never learned how to play with the puck with his head up. He developed as a head down hockey player.

He got away with this because of his size.

When he was 6 inches taller and 60 pounds heavier than everyone during his junior years, he would just run over everyone. Those not run over would just bounce off him. Nobody was tall enough to make contact with his head.

The NHL was different though.

Hitters weren't bouncing off him anymore, because they were also 200+ pounds. Bruisers were also tall enough to make contact with his head, so his habit of skating with his head down resulted in repeated concussions.

 

[The Panther]

The problem with Lindros is that he was too physically dominant from a very young age, and never learned how to play with the puck with his head up.

This gets trotted out often in relation to Lindros's injuries, but I dunno.

His first concussion wasn't until the end of his sixth season (March '98), just days after he'd become the fifth-fastest player in history to reach 500 points. A year after that, he had that punctured-lung thing where he supposedly could have died (Keith Jones arguably saving his life)... and then, in the five months from Dec. '99 through May 2000, he had five concussions, culminating in the memorable blows from Stevens.

After that playoffs, Lindros's father made public the letters he'd exchanged with Philly coaches and medical staff, basically showing that they were incompetent and had effectively risked Lindros's health (and maybe life) in pushing him back to play. Arguably, of those five concussions in five months, all but the first should have been avoided with proper medical care (and concussion-precautions such as are standard today).

So... almost six seasons played before he got a concussion, and in those six seasons he was really physically dominant. I don't know if it's true to say he "never learned to play with the puck with his head up".

 

[stephenlaroche]

Due to drinking

real Cloutier
Jacques RICHARD
Bill Derlago

Based on this, Derlago is still throwing it away...

 

[PettersonHughes]

Not sure if he fit but what happened to Sam Gagner? Had several 40-50 point seasons to start his career, then tailed off around the time he turned 26 which should be his prime. Seemed like there was no consistency and he was only a PP specialist.

Raffi Torres also might belong, 5th overall pick who only had a high of 41 points in one season.

 

[Stephen]

This gets trotted out often in relation to Lindros's injuries, but I dunno.

His first concussion wasn't until the end of his sixth season (March '98), just days after he'd become the fifth-fastest player in history to reach 500 points. A year after that, he had that punctured-lung thing where he supposedly could have died (Keith Jones arguably saving his life)... and then, in the five months from Dec. '99 through May 2000, he had five concussions, culminating in the memorable blows from Stevens.

After that playoffs, Lindros's father made public the letters he'd exchanged with Philly coaches and medical staff, basically showing that they were incompetent and had effectively risked Lindros's health (and maybe life) in pushing him back to play. Arguably, of those five concussions in five months, all but the first should have been avoided with proper medical care (and concussion-precautions such as are standard today).

So... almost six seasons played before he got a concussion, and in those six seasons he was really physically dominant. I don't know if it's true to say he "never learned to play with the puck with his head up".

Completely agree. I feel like some people like the poster above kind of look at Lindros as this Titanic of a player who hits the iceberg on the maiden voyage in the NHL, sort of compressing the timeline. But for all of his imperfections, he was a straight up dominant player who literally destroyed the opposition in the NHL just like the OHL for years until he hit his string of concussion problems.

The infamous Scott Stevens hit which was his iceberg moment which ended his time in Philadelphia was in 2000. That was already his 8th season in the league. And he continued to be a PPG player as late as 2002. So while he was robbed of a conventionally satisfying 1200+ game 1200+ point career and possible championships, and was unfortunately a relatively brief career, it was still Hall of Fame worthy.

 

[Confucius]

Sanderson was good player, but not an elite one.

The guy who's name usually comes up in these conversations is Kent Nilsson.
Maybe Al Iafrate, though I don't know if he ever had the IQ.

first player in the NHL to sign a million dollar contract. Rookie of the year is pretty elite just for starters.
Exactly, he threw it away thats why you think he was just a good player

 

[Stephen]

first player in the NHL to sign a million dollar contract. Rookie of the year is pretty elite just for starters.

Derek Sanderson was 7th in team scoring in his rookie year. 24 goals isn't elite in any era.

 

[Confucius]

Derek Sanderson was 7th in team scoring in his rookie year. 24 goals isn't elite in any era.

he was asked to play D and he did. Wasnt all about scoring he could but didn't because they didn't want him to. First player to get a million a year in the NHL. Tells you what the GM thought of him.

 

[Stephen]

he was asked to play D and he did. Wasnt all about scoring he could but didn't because they didn't want him to. First player to get a million a year in the NHL. Tells you what the GM thought of him.

Doesn't seem like he was paid $1 million out of merit. He was originally paid $2.6 million by the Philadelphia Blazers to defect to the WHA, but suffered a big injury and was bought out by the owner before returning to the Bruins.

https://thehockeywriters.com/derek-turk-sanderson-a-boston-legend/

 

[Confucius]

Doesn't seem like he was paid $1 million out of merit. He was originally paid $2.6 million by the Philadelphia Blazers to defect to the WHA, but suffered a big injury and was bought out by the owner before returning to the Bruins.

https://thehockeywriters.com/derek-turk-sanderson-a-boston-legend/

well that should tell all something as well. The WHA hunted him out and gave him 2.6 million. remember this is the early seventies for goodness sake. Im sure Wikiedia has a page on him. Him Joe Namath and somebody else all partied all the time together.

Edit to add it just occurred to me that was almost 50 years ago, 50 years ago he made a million a year. My Word!

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

a lot of this thread is what does a guy who has always been the best wherever he's been his whole life do when things get hard?

do you give up?

do you settle for being just an okay player for a while and make some money before someone replaces you?

or do you work like hell to improve yourself?

jimmy carson, cody hodgson, robbie schrempf, alexandre daigle... vs say markus naslund... or the sedins

but i think a lot of it isn't just personality or laziness or whatever, but also finding the right situation, having the right vets or coaches around you, or just timing.

like if the sedins when they were struggling and marc crawford just would. not. play. them, what if they didn't have mattias ohlund in that locker room to talk to? what if their captain wasn't a swedish superstar who was in exactly the same situation as them when he was a young player? what if instead of looking after them and mentoring them, trevor linden felt threatened by them and treated them the way brandon sutter reportedly treated jared mccann and jake virtanen and nikolai goldobin?

what if pittsburgh didn't trade for jiri hrdina midway through his rookie year? what if igor larionov wasn't there when bure went totally cold after his second week in the league and only scored three goals in the next two months? what if markus naslund got traded to a team with all of its scoring depth on the LW instead of on the RW like vancouver?

what if cody hodgson had a normal dad? what if jimmy carson hadn't had to go to edmonton and went to a team where he was pushed in a way that worked with his personality?

and how much of this is sometimes just a kid getting to go back to junior or europe instead of having his confidence destroyed at 18?

someone like joe sakic, everybody at the time said it, this kid had something inside him where he was going to succeed no matter what. but probably for a lot of guys, it's crossing paths with the right people at the right time.

Say what?

 

[Voight]

Nikita Filatov.

Josh Ho-Sang is also headed to this thread in a few years if he keeps it up.

This gets trotted out often in relation to Lindros's injuries, but I dunno.

His first concussion wasn't until the end of his sixth season (March '98), just days after he'd become the fifth-fastest player in history to reach 500 points. A year after that, he had that punctured-lung thing where he supposedly could have died (Keith Jones arguably saving his life)... and then, in the five months from Dec. '99 through May 2000, he had five concussions, culminating in the memorable blows from Stevens.

After that playoffs, Lindros's father made public the letters he'd exchanged with Philly coaches and medical staff, basically showing that they were incompetent and had effectively risked Lindros's health (and maybe life) in pushing him back to play. Arguably, of those five concussions in five months, all but the first should have been avoided with proper medical care (and concussion-precautions such as are standard today).

So... almost six seasons played before he got a concussion, and in those six seasons he was really physically dominant. I don't know if it's true to say he "never learned to play with the puck with his head up".

Thats the first documented one. I wouldn't be shocked if there were some before that.

well that should tell all something as well. The WHA hunted him out and gave him 2.6 million. remember this is the early seventies for goodness sake. Im sure Wikiedia has a page on him. Him Joe Namath and somebody else all partied all the time together.

Edit to add it just occurred to me that was almost 50 years ago, 50 years ago he made a million a year. My Word!

I always wondered how he and Namath got to know each other and be buddies. Sanderson was paid a lot sure, but he was nowhere close to as popular as Namath was in his league. Nevermind in general.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

I always wondered how he and Namath got to know each other and be buddies. Sanderson was paid a lot sure, but he was nowhere close to as popular as Namath was in his league. Nevermind in general.

Maybe with the ladies...

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Doesn't seem like he was paid $1 million out of merit. He was originally paid $2.6 million by the Philadelphia Blazers to defect to the WHA, but suffered a big injury and was bought out by the owner before returning to the Bruins.

https://thehockeywriters.com/derek-turk-sanderson-a-boston-legend/

Reading this, I wish there was video of that game with the disappearing pucks.

 

[67 others]

Need to make my own contribution. Krutov didn't manage to handle the freedom given in the world outside of the soviet union. So, he basically went from being a top world player to being fat in a year.

I came to post this.

Some people are not responsible and require the strong discipline of an authority to stay in line. Removed from that and given freedoms he had never before had access too, along with being a stranger in a strange land and homesick, Krutov certainly let his excesses and vices overwhelm him. We know exactly how much talent this guy had. We saw what he was capable of at the highest level. We also watched it evaporate at an astonishing eyeblink

 

[67 others]

Kovalev

/thread reopened

I would not say Kovalev threw away his incredible talent. He was just born without hockey sense and IQ. He tried, but he would usually stickhandle past his scoring opportunity and into row c of the arena.

 

[yukoner88]

If Eric Lindros didn't play the style that he did, he wouldn't have been the apex predator that he was. Maybe his career resume would have looked more complete if he had chosen a conventional level of skill and power and been closer to a Mats Sundin or Joe Thornton. But he also wouldn't have been Eric Lindros.

It wasn't so much the hits Lindros threw (as physically taxing on the body that can be), it was more him not truly learning to stickhandle with his head up. If he kept his head up and on a swivel, he'd see kaspiritus/stevens coming for him from the middle of the ice. No one taught Lindros to protect himself when he was a target.

 

[Stephen]

It wasn't so much the hits Lindros threw (as physically taxing on the body that can be), it was more him not truly learning to stickhandle with his head up. If he kept his head up and on a swivel, he'd see kaspiritus/stevens coming for him from the middle of the ice. No one taught Lindros to protect himself when he was a target.

The idea that Lindros didn't know how to stickhandle with his head up is a completely overblown. He had a hunched over skating style and on that particular Kasparaitis play he lost sight of the puck and was made a victim of a headshot. During that head hunting era, plenty of guys got knocked out. Did Paul Kariya or Ron Francis not know how to protect themselves?

 

[BHD]

Eric Dazé?

 

[BobbyAwe]

Real Chevrefils. Broke in with the Bruins in the early 1950's and had been nearly as highly regarded in the minors as Beliveau, who came up at about the same time. Someone "advised" him to drink some beer to gain weight, he had never had a drink before, and he IMMEDIATELY became an alcoholic. Had only one good year in the NHL - basically played with a hangover every game and was done by 1959.

Johnny Bucyk said the guy had immense talent. Died penniless also. Sad story.

 

[MadLuke]

Eric Dazé?

Was is back issue du to is own action or just badluck ? From memory is short career was due to serious back problems.

https://thehockeywriters.com/what-h...er a five year span,the locker room with them.

Over a five year span, Daze had 3 surgeries to repair herniated disks in his back. He made multiple attempts to come back during 2006 and 2007, however, every time he took the ice, he was still be in constant pain.

 

[GMR]

Scott Parker.

Guy was supposed to be the next Probert when it came to fighting prowess. He was massively hyped coming out of the WHL.

 

[BHD]

Was is back issue du to is own action or just badluck ? From memory is short career was due to serious back problems.

https://thehockeywriters.com/what-happened-to-eric-daze/#:~:text=Over a five year span,the locker room with them.

Over a five year span, Daze had 3 surgeries to repair herniated disks in his back. He made multiple attempts to come back during 2006 and 2007, however, every time he took the ice, he was still be in constant pain.

I thought the opinion on him was that he didn't assert himself enough, given his stature. Although, that could come back to his back issues.

 

[Confucius]

Nikita Filatov.

Josh Ho-Sang is also headed to this thread in a few years if he keeps it up.



Thats the first documented one. I wouldn't be shocked if there were some before that.



I always wondered how he and Namath got to know each other and be buddies. Sanderson was paid a lot sure, but he was nowhere close to as popular as Namath was in his league. Nevermind in general.

1972 Namath signed a two year deal worth 500 thousand
1972 Sanderson signed a 5 year deal worth 2.65 milliom

Namath was a pauper.... even though he was the highest paid NFL player
Could you imagine an NHL player today being the highest paid player in the world in any sport.

 

[MadLuke]

I thought the opinion on him was that he didn't assert himself enough, given his stature. Although, that could come back to his back issues.

Yes for a 90s 6'6 guys, he didn't play physical if we equate size has a form of talent and not using it that could argued. But with the hindsight of how much issues is body got, playing that style (even if it was before the first massive injuries) could be argued the opposite, maybe that what helped him to stay around to make to gross 18.4 millions with is talents.