Which player threw away most of his incredible talent?

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Jimmy Carson

Guy was a tremendous talent early on but no work ethic to keep improving it.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Bryan Fogarty.

/thread

Kovalev

/thread reopened

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Marian Uharček.

Kind of hard to see, looking at his stats, though his Czech2 stats are missing from the Eliteprospects page. What was being said about him, and when? He’s one year older than Palffy who’s tearing up the league between ages 18-21.

First picture when you google him was of a guy with a huge stack of poker chips, maybe he was the Jagr of poker in the Dukla Trencin locker room?

 

[alko]

Kind of hard to see, looking at his stats, though his Czech2 stats are missing from the Eliteprospects page. What was being said about him, and when? He’s one year older than Palffy who’s tearing up the league between ages 18-21.

First picture when you google him was of a guy with a huge stack of poker chips, maybe he was the Jagr of poker in the Dukla Trencin locker room?

You cant measure Talent only with points. Even in lower leagues.

Here and here is something about him.

And there was other: Peter Pinďár. Maybe even more talented. Crushed the Czechoslovakia U18 league record in 80s. But booze destroyed his talent.

Btw, there is other interesting older thread abut this.

 

[Albatros]

Kovalev

/thread reopened

If anything Kovalev made the most of what he had.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

You cant measure Talent only with points. Even in lower leagues.

Here and here is something about him.

And there was other: Peter Pinďár. Maybe even more talented. Crushed the Czechoslovakia U18 league record in 80s. But booze destroyed his talent.

Btw, there is other interesting older thread abut this.

No, I get that, but if he’s compared to Jagr, then I thought that perhaps his stats would be similar to his, before falling off a cliff.

I google translated that first long interview and browsed through it a bit. I gathered that he thought he peaked in 1990, had good youth tournaments where he played first line and Jagr fourth (Jagr’s a year younger), and that he saw his game as similar to Palffy’s in that they were both good skaters who liked to score goals, and didn’t care too much for the defensive side of the game.

And he thought the leaders mishandled him, falsely accused him of drinking too much alcohol, while he on the other hand started chasing fast money in casinos, which increasingly became a problem for him?

Correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t read it all and the translation was unsurprisingly wonky.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Jimmy Carson

Guy was a tremendous talent early on but no work ethic to keep improving it.

a lot of this thread is what does a guy who has always been the best wherever he's been his whole life do when things get hard?

do you give up?

do you settle for being just an okay player for a while and make some money before someone replaces you?

or do you work like hell to improve yourself?

jimmy carson, cody hodgson, robbie schrempf, alexandre daigle... vs say markus naslund... or the sedins

but i think a lot of it isn't just personality or laziness or whatever, but also finding the right situation, having the right vets or coaches around you, or just timing.

like if the sedins when they were struggling and marc crawford just would. not. play. them, what if they didn't have mattias ohlund in that locker room to talk to? what if their captain wasn't a swedish superstar who was in exactly the same situation as them when he was a young player? what if instead of looking after them and mentoring them, trevor linden felt threatened by them and treated them the way brandon sutter reportedly treated jared mccann and jake virtanen and nikolai goldobin?

what if pittsburgh didn't trade for jiri hrdina midway through his rookie year? what if igor larionov wasn't there when bure went totally cold after his second week in the league and only scored three goals in the next two months? what if markus naslund got traded to a team with all of its scoring depth on the LW instead of on the RW like vancouver?

what if cody hodgson had a normal dad? what if jimmy carson hadn't had to go to edmonton and went to a team where he was pushed in a way that worked with his personality?

and how much of this is sometimes just a kid getting to go back to junior or europe instead of having his confidence destroyed at 18?

someone like joe sakic, everybody at the time said it, this kid had something inside him where he was going to succeed no matter what. but probably for a lot of guys, it's crossing paths with the right people at the right time.

 

[plusandminus]

Would a guy like Eric Lindros qualify, choosing a playing style that made him prone to concussions, thus shortening his career?

(As I wrote in another thread, playing style can make a players more or less injury prone. Maybe guys like Lidström should get more credit for that.)

 

[Moose Head]

Would a guy like Eric Lindros qualify, choosing a playing style that made him prone to concussions, thus shortening his career?

(As I wrote in another thread, playing style can make a players more or less injury prone. Maybe guys like Lidström should get more credit for that.)

Exactly. Look at Orr. If he didn’t play kamikaze hockey he’d still be the best ever but maybe he plays 10 more exceptional years after 76

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Exactly. Look at Orr. If he didn’t play kamikaze hockey he’d still be the best ever but maybe he plays 10 more exceptional years after 76

also forsberg

and i remember back in the day on coach's corner, don cherry showed this clip of roenick playing completely out of control going end to end and scoring a total beauty. and cherry goes, ok well yeah he's as exciting as anyone in the league but if he doesn't learn how to dial it back someone's going to catch him with an open ice hit while he's going all out like that and he's going to get seriously hurt. prophetic.

 

[Gubbhornet]

a lot of this thread is what does a guy who has always been the best wherever he's been his whole life do when things get hard?

do you give up?

do you settle for being just an okay player for a while and make some money before someone replaces you?

or do you work like hell to improve yourself?

jimmy carson, cody hodgson, robbie schrempf, alexandre daigle... vs say markus naslund... or the sedins

but i think a lot of it isn't just personality or laziness or whatever, but also finding the right situation, having the right vets or coaches around you, or just timing.

like if the sedins when they were struggling and marc crawford just would. not. play. them, what if they didn't have mattias ohlund in that locker room to talk to? what if their captain wasn't a swedish superstar who was in exactly the same situation as them when he was a young player? what if instead of looking after them and mentoring them, trevor linden felt threatened by them and treated them the way brandon sutter reportedly treated jared mccann and jake virtanen and nikolai goldobin?

what if pittsburgh didn't trade for jiri hrdina midway through his rookie year? what if igor larionov wasn't there when bure went totally cold after his second week in the league and only scored three goals in the next two months? what if markus naslund got traded to a team with all of its scoring depth on the LW instead of on the RW like vancouver?

what if cody hodgson had a normal dad? what if jimmy carson hadn't had to go to edmonton and went to a team where he was pushed in a way that worked with his personality?

and how much of this is sometimes just a kid getting to go back to junior or europe instead of having his confidence destroyed at 18?

someone like joe sakic, everybody at the time said it, this kid had something inside him where he was going to succeed no matter what. but probably for a lot of guys, it's crossing paths with the right people at the right time.

I agree to a certain extent. But, there are definitely players that does not ever grow up. Mikael Renberg once stated in an interview that a key for his NHL career to turn out as good as it did was realizing that he didn't have the defensive skill set to do anything fancy in his own end, and decided then just to use the easy option. That is a part of growing up and realizing thay you want be as dominant as you were in your junior years. Rob Schremp on the other hand, after he had given up on the NHL and moved to europe, posted a tweet were he said that "Anybody can back check but how many players can do this?" + a clip of him doing fancy stick moves. Me who had watched him play that season in europe was just thinking "Then why don't you back check?". The guy was close to 30 then and should have understood by then that dangling just gets you so far...

 

[crobro]

Steve Shutt

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Steve Shutt

Shutt? No, he is the answer in the other thread "who made the most out of their limited talent?" Shutt was an average skater, with no moves, who didn't carry the puck, was an average to below average playmaker with an incredible shot and excellent hand-eye coordination. Threw it away? No.

 

[alko]

No, I get that, but if he’s compared to Jagr, then I thought that perhaps his stats would be similar to his, before falling off a cliff.

I google translated that first long interview and browsed through it a bit. I gathered that he thought he peaked in 1990, had good youth tournaments where he played first line and Jagr fourth (Jagr’s a year younger), and that he saw his game as similar to Palffy’s in that they were both good skaters who liked to score goals, and didn’t care too much for the defensive side of the game.

And he thought the leaders mishandled him, falsely accused him of drinking too much alcohol, while he on the other hand started chasing fast money in casinos, which increasingly became a problem for him?

Correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t read it all and the translation was unsurprisingly wonky.

Yeah, that and others. There is much more, but in short:

Head coach of Dukla Trencin Julius Supler didnt gave him much ice-tim after he came back from U20 WCH. Was accused of alcoholism. But he says, he never had such issues. It was only a bad rumor about him. He was so frustrated, that he started gambling and that was the end of his rise to star. He played lower leagues, but ice-hockey wasnt for him anymore a top priority. Now he is a profi poker player.

 

[The Panther]

Steve Shutt

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Doug Wickenheiser.

The best guy to ever practice the game. Once the actually puck dropped it was a different story.

RIP. Feel bad mentioning him in this all things considered but he was the 2nd name that came to mind after Fogorty.

 

[DeysArena]

Doug Wickenheiser.

The best guy to ever practice the game. Once the actually puck dropped it was a different story.

RIP. Feel bad mentioning him in this all things considered but he was the 2nd name that came to mind after Fogorty.

Wickenheiser didn't throw away his talent. He just couldn't take the pressure of playing in Montreal for a coach that resented him.

 

[57special]

Wickenheiser also blew out his knee before his NHL career started. This was in the pre arthroscopic era where such an injury could derail a career.

 

[Wackster]

but actually one is cody hodgson.

excellent hockey sense and shot, with good defensive instincts on top of that. below average skating and size.

so he destroys the lower levels. CHL player of the year, led the WJC in scoring.

but when he makes the NHL, his physical limitations are... well limitations. so instead of taking a cue from the centers above him in the lineup, who each worked like hell to erase their early limitations to become trophy-winning stars (henrik getting his skating and strength up to NHL level, kesler developing his previously non-existent offensive skillset and one hell of a wrist shot), hodgson + father demand plum offensive icetime so that he can be the best one dimensional weak and slow offensive center he can be.

remember this is a 21 year old kid walking onto the number one team in the league, that was just in the finals, complaining about his role behind a guy who had just won the MVP and scoring title and another guy who won the selke while finishing fourth in goals.

man, if he had just focused on being better instead of getting himself traded to buffalo where he got to live out his dream of leading a bad team in scoring and not being held accountable until his body fell apart...

people compared him to sakic, and if our skating people can turn bo sluggy horvat into a powerful skater, cody could have developed sakic's step if he'd really wanted to. in 2010 or so, i wanted to hand him #19.

Also he had a disease that shot down his career completly but he was already a wash up

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Wickenheiser didn't throw away his talent. He just couldn't take the pressure of playing in Montreal for a coach that resented him.

He also had a fairly serious injury in St Louis
Greatest Hockey Legends.com: Weird Hockey Injuries

 

[crobro]

Due to drinking

real Cloutier
Jacques RICHARD
Bill Derlago

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Wickenheiser didn't throw away his talent. He just couldn't take the pressure of playing in Montreal for a coach that resented him.

That’s a huge part of it I’m sure. Especially with the comparisons to Savard and a coach who wanted the club to draft Savard. It’s just I’ve heard reports he looked like a superstar at times in practice yet as you said he couldn’t handle the on ice pressure. It was unfortunate for him but I feel he belongs on the list.

 

[jiboy]

I would nominate Mike Ribeiro.

All the talent in the world but low work ethic , drug abuse and super cocky.

 

[ted2019]

Jimmy Carson. His heart wasn't into the game.

 

[Stephen]

Would a guy like Eric Lindros qualify, choosing a playing style that made him prone to concussions, thus shortening his career?

If Eric Lindros didn't play the style that he did, he wouldn't have been the apex predator that he was. Maybe his career resume would have looked more complete if he had chosen a conventional level of skill and power and been closer to a Mats Sundin or Joe Thornton. But he also wouldn't have been Eric Lindros.