Which player made most out of his limited talent?

[CaptBrannigan]

don't forget narc, hehe

that said, whatever people want to say about his character, which personally i'd be inclined to defend as vigilantly as almost any canuck ever, slug is maybe the last the animal i'd compare him to

But “rat” is so overused!

 

[VanIslander]

Tiger Williams was considered weak at skating, yet he had five 20-goal (two 30+ goal) NHL seasons, went to the all-star game, helped his team go to the Stanley Cup Finals (10 points in 17 playoff games; team-leading two game-winning goals), and remains the league's career penalty leader!

Heart, determination, bloody hard and dirty work got him goals, respect and the box.

 

[SCampo98]

Mason Raymond lasting a while because of his speed comes to mind.

 

[BHD]

Bryce Salvador. Recently read an article where he discussed his development from junior to pro.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Begs the question: isn't a really great hockey mind an asset that belongs to the domain of talent?

My "homer" pick and personal favourite would be Holmstrom. He made an NHL career out of battling in front of the net and using his choppy skating to retrieve pucks in the offensive zone for his teammates. He wasn't even that big or strong but he could take a beating and knew how to make himself effective even while playing with linemates who had far more talent than he did.

He did develop good skills at tipping pucks so I guess he had some talent.

actually, to add to this, often we hear guys like homer and smyth being called untalented, and yes part of getting their job done is being willing to go there and take a beating, but yeah they had hands for days. great hand-eye coordination, great timing, very smart players in general.

in general i think the common denominator between guys who played for a long time on successful teams with superstar linemates is brains. holmstrom, burrows, mike knuble is another one. some players when you put them with a superstar put up points but might just break even or be a net negative because they also impose a tax on your superstar. dany heatley is one example: alfredsson scores more points than ever before but he also needs to pull a lot more weight being the dirty work guy on that line. whereas the guys i just mentioned make life easier for datsyuk/zetterberg and the sedins and thornton/murray and forsberg/gagne and ovechkin, and so on.

 

[Moose Head]

Jeez, I’m going to get in trouble for this, but here goes, Phil Esposito.

 

[Gubbhornet]

I wouldn't have this guy as number one by any chance, but Samuel Påhlsson made alot more out of his carreer then most Swedes with his level of talent did back then. Few swedish forwards that reached NHL 20 years ago was willing to accept that they were not good enough to ever be top 6 and managed to transfer into a defensive role.

 

[Sadekuuro]

actually, to add to this, often we hear guys like homer and smyth being called untalented, and yes part of getting their job done is being willing to go there and take a beating, but yeah they had hands for days. great hand-eye coordination, great timing, very smart players in general.

in general i think the common denominator between guys who played for a long time on successful teams with superstar linemates is brains. holmstrom, burrows, mike knuble is another one. some players when you put them with a superstar put up points but might just break even or be a net negative because they also impose a tax on your superstar. dany heatley is one example: alfredsson scores more points than ever before but he also needs to pull a lot more weight being the dirty work guy on that line. whereas the guys i just mentioned make life easier for datsyuk/zetterberg and the sedins and thornton/murray and forsberg/gagne and ovechkin, and so on.

Definitely. Holmstrom was terrific at working the boards, but you'd never know it from hearing even most of his fans describing his game. Great subtle little plays for days.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Jeez, I’m going to get in trouble for this, but here goes, Phil Esposito.

And well you should.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Tiger Williams was considered weak at skating, yet he had five 20-goal (two 30+ goal) NHL seasons, went to the all-star game, helped his team go to the Stanley Cup Finals (10 points in 17 playoff games; team-leading two game-winning goals), and remains the league's career penalty leader!

Heart, determination, bloody hard and dirty work got him goals, respect and the box.

But he was no Terry O'Reilly.

 

[Thenameless]

Maybe Kevin Lowe?

He was not particularly large, was very slow-footed, had a terrible shot-blocking technique that he way over-used, was an average passer (though not too bad, actually), had a muffin shot, and was useless on the PP. Somehow, he ended up having an 18-year career, with 6 Stanley Cups, and he recently entered the Hall of Fame.

That's actually a decent answer. When I think of the high-flying 80's Oilers, he's the one you'd pick for "which of these does not belong".

When I think of Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Anderson, and Coffey, I think of great skaters with fantastic puck handling skills. Lowe doesn't fit into either great skater or great puck handling.

 

[Moose Head]

And well you should.

I saw him in Chicago. Pretty good player, but IMO never saw a guy exceed my expectations more than him. Just did not see a top 30 all time player who would get a ton of scoring records, especially by the margins he achieved them.

 

[Thenameless]

Tiger Williams was considered weak at skating, yet he had five 20-goal (two 30+ goal) NHL seasons, went to the all-star game, helped his team go to the Stanley Cup Finals (10 points in 17 playoff games; team-leading two game-winning goals), and remains the league's career penalty leader!

Heart, determination, bloody hard and dirty work got him goals, respect and the box.

Tiger Williams had more talent than the public perceived him to have. It's almost like he played down his natural ability in favour of being a grinder and an enforcer. I remember some of his goals looking quite "skilled", and not all of the garbage type.

 

[vikash1987]

Would Pat Maroon fit in this category? His hulk-like physical frame (6'3", 230 lbs.) has really been harnessed into a tremendous asset, and it has been used to the fullest by the last two Stanley Cup winners. This despite his very average (by elite/NHL standards) skating and puck-carrying skills.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Having coached against Maroon before, he can absolutely dangle...at lower levels, when the game isn't as fast and him being the biggest guy on the rink, you couldn't get the puck from him...

I'm also going to take the liberty of subbing out Kevin Lowe...not because he was a special talent for the purposes of this thread, he shouldn't be listed with guys like Hal Gill (nicknamed "Skillsy"), Tomas Holmstrom, my favorite player Patric Hornqvist, and - now - Rob Scuderi...Scuderi spent more time on the ice in his career than Clint Benedict I believe...

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Lehtinen probably. Very good though, first line player. One of the hardest wingers to play against.

 

[MadLuke]

Not sure how Chara fit in that conversation. Not sure many would have thought 1,500+ regular season games, hall of famers after seeing him skate in the whl-ahl-rookie nhl season, he seem to have a total dedication to put the best body on the ice he can and made the most out of the height gift he received.

 

[Chili]

Harold Snepsts came across as a heart and soul player.

 

[Plural]

Not sure how Chara fit in that conversation. Not sure many would have thought 1,500+ regular season games, hall of famers after seeing him skate in the whl-ahl-rookie nhl season, he seem to have a total dedication to put the best body on the ice he can and made the most out of the height gift he received.

His skating early in his career was shady, to say the least. But you're right, Chara worked like a madman to get his physicality and skating as good as possible. He's a Hall of Famer by determination.

 

[ted2019]

Brad Marsh

 

[buffalowing88]

Jeez, I’m going to get in trouble for this, but here goes, Phil Esposito.

I don't disagree. You watch Esposito and immediately assume it must be a guy near the end of his career. He LUMBERED around the ice and he certainly looked even slower when followed by a guy like Orr rushing up to join in. No knock on Espo, but he made his bones by being savvy and finding the right place to be. I don't think of him as some outstanding talent. Just a pure producer and gamer.

 

[buffalowing88]

Having coached against Maroon before, he can absolutely dangle...at lower levels, when the game isn't as fast and him being the biggest guy on the rink, you couldn't get the puck from him...

I'm also going to take the liberty of subbing out Kevin Lowe...not because he was a special talent for the purposes of this thread, he shouldn't be listed with guys like Hal Gill (nicknamed "Skillsy"), Tomas Holmstrom, my favorite player Patric Hornqvist, and - now - Rob Scuderi...Scuderi spent more time on the ice in his career than Clint Benedict I believe...

Scuderi is a great example. The guy played 20.5 minutes a night in the playoffs for his career. Clearly, he had value. I just remember him being leaned on a lot during the Pittsburgh years. Nothing every stood out, but that's sort of what you want. He's a Toni Lydman type defender in that you can't gauge just how valuable he is until you see someone try and replace him.

 

[Michael Farkas]

What's crazy is that in 2009, a pairing of Gill and Scuderi played a lot for a championship team...

The drop off, adjusting for era, from a PP unit that featured Crosby, Malkin, and Gonchar to a PK that had Gill, Scuderi, and Craig Adams is a sight to behold...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I don't disagree. You watch Esposito and immediately assume it must be a guy near the end of his career. He LUMBERED around the ice and he certainly looked even slower when followed by a guy like Orr rushing up to join in. No knock on Espo, but he made his bones by being savvy and finding the right place to be. I don't think of him as some outstanding talent. Just a pure producer and gamer.

Excellent passer, great wrister, couldn't take the puck away from him once he got it. Funny looking skater, but not as bad as people make him seem.

Does not belong in this conversation.

 

[Sentinel]

Luc Robitaille and Dino Cicarelli.