Which player made most out of his limited talent?

[joe dirte]

Sneaked a peek on Selke voting. Among players listed as wingers on Hockey Reference, Burrows’ Selke record is 12-4-2-10-8-9, but in any given season I wasn’t sure about the positional listings. Backes and Zetterberg fared better in Selke voting, but didn’t they play center a lot? Anyway, at a glance, it looks like those two, Ryan Callahan, Marian Hossa and maybe Parise deserves mention in that discussion, but if instead of the Selke award we had the Bob Gainey defensive winger award, and Zetterberg was deemed a center in 2009-10, then Burrows would have one of those

Great. That doesn't make him the best defensive winger of a generation.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Sneaked a peek on Selke voting. Among players listed as wingers on Hockey Reference, Burrows’ Selke record is 12-4-2-10-8-9, but in any given season I wasn’t sure about the positional listings. Backes and Zetterberg fared better in Selke voting, but didn’t they play center a lot? Anyway, at a glance, it looks like those two, Ryan Callahan, Marian Hossa and maybe Parise deserves mention in that discussion, but if instead of the Selke award we had the Bob Gainey defensive winger award, and Zetterberg was deemed a center in 2009-10, then Burrows would have one of those

you're really just talking about two guys from that generation: burrows and hossa. yes backes played center, and we probably should consider both zetterberg and datsyuk centers too.

hossa obviously is the far superior two way player but if i'm picking i'd take burrows for pure defence any day. he and kesler were the best penalty killing forward duo in the league bar none, and he played above selke kesler as the first option to kill any 5 on 3.

 

[Iapyi]

don't forget narc, hehe

that said, whatever people want to say about his character, which personally i'd be inclined to defend as vigilantly as almost any canuck ever, slug is maybe the last the animal i'd compare him to

Who and what did he narc on? Can't say this rings any bells.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Who and what did he narc on? Can't say this rings any bells.

Stéphane Auger - Wikipedia

 

[Iapyi]

Stéphane Auger - Wikipedia

Okay. I do remember that incident and I do recall that Auger used to blatantly cheat when he was officiating against a certain team from Ontario.

Not sure I agree with the 'narc' term on this though. I despise 'narcs' but see it as people who narc on others to save themselves from what they righteously deserve.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Okay. I do remember that incident and I do recall that Auger used to blatantly cheat when he was officiating against a certain team from Ontario.

Not sure I agree with the 'narc' term on this though. I despise 'narcs' but see it as people who narc on others to save themselves from what they righteously deserve.

ha, fair enough. in my book, it's never okay to snitch unless you snitch on the cops.

 

[Iapyi]

ha, fair enough. in my book, it's never okay to snitch unless you snitch on the cops.

I don't see it as snitching. I see it as Burrows defending himself against deplorable actions by a person in an authoritative type of position.

 

[Iapyi]

Agreed. Looked slower than he was because he stayed on the ice for 4 minutes at a time in his heyday. I've seen him in full game vids where he surprised me a little at times when he HAD to skate to get up ice. All his highlight vids are of him scoring from the slot.

I remember watching a game when I was a mere lad and watching Esposito maintaining the puck for the entirety of a 2-minute penalty kill. The other team just couldn't get the puck off of him and he skated around the entire ice with the puck for the full 2 minutes plus.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

And I’ve heard stories that there’s a dinosaur in Loch Ness and a Bigfoot in Washington state.

While those things may be true, you don’t go outside the rules (written and unwritten) as often as Burrows did without it affecting your standing as a player in the eyes of many.

But lots of team have a guy like Burrows who plays on the edge and is loved by his own and hated by others.....thats not terribly relevant to how he conducts himself off-ice.

 

[CaptBrannigan]

But lots of team have a guy like Burrows who plays on the edge and is loved by his own and hated by others.....thats not terribly relevant to how he conducts himself off-ice.

Which is why I haven’t and won’t care about off ice...as it has nothing to do with the topic we’re in of a player making the most of limited talent.

I disagree that lots of teams have a guy who crossed all the lines of diving and hair pulling and biting and family taunting. Kassian is the only one who immediately springs to mind as a similarly unlikeable buffoon, except he has the added bonus of being deplorable off ice too! When you have enough of those types of marks on your record it’s hard not to view that player as detestable.

As the old joke goes, you can cure cancer, end world hunger, invent cold fusion, and boink one sheep...and you’re forever known a sheep boinker. And there’s a few sheep shaped notches in the Burrows bedpost.

 

[Wackster]

Obligatory mention of Ryan Smyth.

Well I'm not to sure about it. He wasn't the fastest or smootest skater but had a knack for scoring goals and had a quick release so I wouldn't include him in the list

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Interesting choices.

Dino was tiny (Hockey Ref. lists him as 5'10'' but I think that's optimistic!) and feisty, and most of his goals (esp. in the 90s) were scored within three feet of the goal-line, usually with a defenceman or two draped all over him, or him fallen over the goaltender. Not the best skater either, although I guess he was all right for his era. But it's mainly a size and feistiness thing with him. He seemed driven to get to the net and be a pain in the butt.

The knock on Robitaille was always his skating, which was choppy and visually unimpressive. His passing was good, but not great. His shot was really good, but he mainly had a slapper more than a wrist-shot or an in-close ability to deke or stickhandle, which would seem to have limited his goal-scoring ability after the early-90s... except it didn't. Robitaille is the Grade-A example of how hockey sense and IQ and individual determination are way, way more important than obvious physical skills like speed or physicality.

Dino was never drafted, and Robitaille went 171st, and then for two years couldn't crack the lowly Kings' starting line-up (not even one game). Yet, by the time both guys were done, they'd collectively scored 1,407 NHL goals.

Can confirm. Dino Cicerelli used to live down the street from my aunt in Shelby Township, MI and he'd be around for neighborhood barbeques and would play street hockey with local kids every now and then. My dad was only 5'10" on a good day and he was at least 2 inches taller than Dino when they stood shoulder to shoulder.

 

[Lt Dan]

Derek Armstrong is good candidate

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Which is why I haven’t and won’t care about off ice...as it has nothing to do with the topic we’re in of a player making the most of limited talent.

I disagree that lots of teams have a guy who crossed all the lines of diving and hair pulling and biting and family taunting. Kassian is the only one who immediately springs to mind as a similarly unlikeable buffoon, except he has the added bonus of being deplorable off ice too! When you have enough of those types of marks on your record it’s hard not to view that player as detestable.

As the old joke goes, you can cure cancer, end world hunger, invent cold fusion, and boink one sheep...and you’re forever known a sheep boinker. And there’s a few sheep shaped notches in the Burrows bedpost.

This is very over the top.

I was at the game when Luc Bourdon scored I think his only goal. The bow and arrow celebration of Burrows afterward was a tribute to him. It was fantastic.

 

[PainForShane]

Chris Kunitz gets my vote.

Max effort every night, was able to score some goals and even make the Canadian Olympic team (!) while he was playing with Sid in Pittsburgh, but before that he was on a line with prime Getzlaf and Corey Perry so to me that says that line placement wasn’t a complete fluke.

Also... undrafted, cleared waivers twice early in his career, finished with over 1000 games played and 4 cups. If it’s not Chris Kunitz he at least has to be in the conversation

 

[JackSlater]

Among players who became all time greats I'd say Chelios perhaps. I have seen plenty of Chelios but I couldn't really explain to a person why he was great or what specific hockey skill he excelled at. I get the sense that Lindsay is somewhat similar but I'd like to see more games. At the level of players who were elite for a while I'd throw out LeClair. He was big but that's basically it. Among similar players in the era I'd call him certainly less talented than Stevens and especially Tkachuk in terms of almost every hockey skill. Still, by the late 90s LeClair was not a product of Lindros and was capable of carrying a line on his own and contending for the goal scoring lead with size as his only noteworthy attribute.

I do not think that Phil Esposito belongs anywhere near a topic like this, unless smooth skating and flashiness with the puck are the only elements of talent worth rating. Esposito had tremendous hands in practical matters - making a pass, receiving a pass, getting a hard and accurate shot on net, getting a shot away quickly, stickhandling, holding on to the puck. It's hard to be a fairly lazy player with limited talent and also a top five player in hockey for half a decade or so.

 

[sharkbyte]

This is very over the top.

I was at the game when Luc Bourdon scored I think his only goal. The bow and arrow celebration of Burrows afterward was a tribute to him. It was fantastic.

I don't really think it is really that over the top.

These things aren't mutually exclusive. I'm sure what you said about Burrows having "class interactions" in public is true. And I'm sure he's a great father and husband. But it doesn't change the fact he was an absolute tool on the ice and resorted to some really garbage antics over and over again. Most players aren't out there diving like it's their job and biting fingers and what not.

And I say this as someone who fully accepts I would have probably loved the Sh*t out of Burrows if I were a Canucks fan. And Max Lapierre was way worse.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i’ve always thought the biting thing was overblown. i mean bergeron sticks his fingers in your mouth so far he’s practically inducing vomiting, what are you going to do? probably more of a reflex than anything else—i’m reminded of pulp fiction but best not to go down that road.

whereas grabbing onto duncan keith’s hair during a fight where he’s trying to hang on? that was embarrassing.

 

[JianYang]

Chris nilan was drafted 236th overall, basically as a favour, since a couple habs scouts were friends of his college coach.

Somehow, he goes from a 5 game AHL tryout to an nhl contract. He scores 110 goals in his career, including 56 goals over 3 season span in the mid 80s. This also happened to be the same span where spent the most time in the penalty box, averaging well over 300pims per season.

This unknown guy from Boston ends up playing on a line with 2 Hall of famers in Gainey and carbonneau, and shows that he can contribute in other ways than dropping the mitts.

He always credited Jacques lemaire for his brief run as habs coach for bringing out this side of him.

 

[c9777666]

Ryan Smyth- he was a case of All Bite, No Bark