Post-Game Talk: Where's all that talent Bob?....

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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Literally every NHL player makes mistakes. Even Crosby.

again, i wouldn't be as pissed if it were mistakes. honest mistakes. i'm concerned about, as hitch says, priorities. putting skikll over hard work. it's basically saying there's cheating for offence going on. priority to try hard for offence but defence and responsible hockey takes a back seat. and it's quite obvious when you watch them play. i understand noone else is producing but you have to stick with the plan or it becoes choas and as hitch says, people just start playing on their own and for themselves instead of the team. they have to trust the system and be patient... but they aren't... they go through adversity and abandon the game plan and cheat for offence. save energy for offence and it bites them in the a$$.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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again, i wouldn't be as pissed if it were mistakes. honest mistakes. i'm concerned about, as hitch says, priorities. putting skikll over hard work. it's basically saying there's cheating for offence going on. priority to try hard for offence but defence and responsible hockey takes a back seat. and it's quite obvious when you watch them play. i understand noone else is producing but you have to stick with the plan or it becoes choas and as hitch says, people just start playing on their own and for themselves instead of the team. they have to trust the system and be patient... but they aren't... they go through adversity and abandon the game plan and cheat for offence. save energy for offence and it bites them in the a$$.
We should give him away like we did Hall right?
 
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MaxR11

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I don't disagree with any of that. But we have ~50% of this roster that were not, or would not, be available to a Vegas. They had 0%. And they created a team. How much of it is on good GM-ing, good coaching, or to be honest, good honest leadership is a matter of debate. I'm sure all of the above.

We still need (after Connor, who I think is a great leader) to have more players who play the game the right way and can be a positive leadership force... one that doesn't sulk or sag... and makes the players around them better. I think Drai can be one of those guys, but he's also admitted (and McLellan commented too) that he can be very hard on himself... to the point that it's not productive.

We can't have our leaders checking out because they get frustrated or don't believe anymore... I'm sorry that's just contradictory. I'm not saying you think Drai has, and I'm not saying I think he as either... but a teammate, especially a low-talent grinder who can't afford to ever coast... might think so watching that play. And moreover, on a GOOD TEAM, that play wouldn't happen (as often as it does), not because of talent, but because the guys trust each other enough to instruct each other (the bench or a teammate should have been screaming "Drai, trailer!").

I worry we don't have that culture and until we do, we won't win, regardless of talent.

yup nice post, your last sentence is what i've been saying for a while now. fix culture first, then bring in the talent. you can bring in tarsenko, parayko, etc and if the culture still sags, those players will sag. then people here will be all over tara and parak... lambasting the new gm for bringing in these "washed up/bust" players.

there's a reason so many players come here and most of them play WORSE than they do elsewhere.... it's CULTURE. it's really not difficult to see.
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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We should give him away like we did Hall right?

if anything... what i continue to see here has given me a slight soft spot for hall. SLIGHT. the organizational culture breeds this type of play/attitude it seems.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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yup nice post, your last sentence is what i've been saying for a while now. fix culture first, then bring in the talent. you can bring in tarsenko, parayko, etc and if the culture still sags, those players will sag. then people here will be all over tara and parak... lambasting the new gm for bringing in these "washed up/bust" players.

there's a reason so many players come here and most of them play WORSE than they do elsewhere.... it's CULTURE. it's really not difficult to see.
So we should get rid of McDavid too. He is part of the culture cause he plays with. Trade everyone at once, bring in different players and then we will have a better team cause the culture is gone. Perfect.
 

Drivesaitl

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Oct 8, 2017
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if anything... what i continue to see here has given me a slight soft spot for hall. SLIGHT. the organizational culture breeds this type of play/attitude it seems.

This is what people here were telling you for years tbh.

That said its easier to build a team culture around D when you have a D stalwart that stands out. Thus Pronger being a central figure the last time this team org was very good or Karlsson getting the Sens to the SC final or Doughty, Keith, etc.

Even in Boston its easier to sell commitment to team D when that commitment consistently works. With a guy like Chara back there handling traffic and nullifying mistakes and GA its much easier to get the buy in. When your best D is said to be a Larsson or a Klefbom its really hard to see that as a rallying cry. Especially when those guys make so many mistakes and struggle so much to be a top pairing.

As many have mentioned we don't have any kind of team structure or depth that suggests being able to survive on a diet of 1 and 2 goal games. Even LA Kings went extinct trying to do that and their lineup was FORMED to do that. We get owned on 3rd and 4th line minutes and throughout our D pairs.

Imagine if McDRai played even more defensively and focused more on containment than scoring. We'd have less goals and still be bleeding with our substandard D.
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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This is what people here were telling you for years tbh.

That said its easier to build a team culture around D when you have a D stalwart that stands out. Thus Pronger being a central figure the last time this team org was very good or Karlsson getting the Sens to the SC final or Doughty, Keith, etc.

Even in Boston its easier to sell commitment to team D when that commitment consistently works. With a guy like Chara back there handling traffic and nullifying mistakes and GA its much easier to get the buy in. When your best D is said to be a Larsson or a Klefbom its really hard to see that as a rallying cry. Especially when those guys make so many mistakes and struggle so much to be a top pairing.

As many have mentioned we don't have any kind of team structure or depth that suggests being able to survive on a diet of 1 and 2 goal games. Even LA Kings went extinct trying to do that and their lineup was FORMED to do that. We get owned on 3rd and 4th line minutes and throughout our D pairs.

Imagine if McDRai played even more defensively and focused more on containment than scoring. We'd have less goals and still be bleeding with our substandard D.

doesn't neccessarily have to build around defencemen but build around general proper team play, attitudes, work ethic, accountability amongst everyone, habits (practice, in game), playing for each other, not sagging, mental toughness etc etc etc.

punt out the obc and get a whole new team of gm, poho etc. we don't need a new poho, gm that has the f***** obc looking over their shoulders and potentially influencing things or sending differing messages to players, coaches etc etc. bring in an entire new management team who'll kick the doors open in the dressing room and tell the players what's what and what's to be expected... and if you don't like it or abide by this new culture you're gone. i don't care if your jersey number is 83, 5, or 29 or 97... buy in or f*** off. obviously 97 would get a longer leash but you ensure everyone gets the message. it's about winning games not winning individual awards or padding one's stats.... if drai has to be a 50 pt 2nd line center who's sound all over the ice, so be it.
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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So we should get rid of McDavid too. He is part of the culture cause he plays with. Trade everyone at once, bring in different players and then we will have a better team cause the culture is gone. Perfect.


don't put words in my mouth. you said it. not me. personally i never want to give up connor but i'll buy in to whatever wins us cups.... connor or no connor.
 

yababy

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Jun 26, 2015
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you're not wrong... i'm trying to throw drivesaitl a bone. ya he had a few good games there and for the most part was solid enough.

sorry, it was vs Anaheim. I've already been corrected.
Point is, Draisaitl was paid a contract based on that series. For a guy that doesn't do much when he's not with McDavid and not on the PP he's worth about 6M - not 8.5M
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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sorry, it was vs Anaheim. I've already been corrected.
Point is, Draisaitl was paid a contract based on that series. For a guy that doesn't do much when he's not with McDavid and not on the PP he's worth about 6M - not 8.5M

ya, i hear you. i'm a little leery as well. i mean connor did basically make maroon an almost 30 goal scorer when his true abilities are more of a less than 10 goal scorer... however there is something to be said about the great chemistry connor and drai do have when they are on their game. it's quite potent. it's hard to tell the exact value of drai now because there might not be a fair enough amount of talent outside of connor to play with. can drai make decent, but not star wingers better players?... i don't know.... maybe yes maybe no...

but essentially in my mind drai is not even close to proven to be a sure fire star player when not with connor. it's just hard to assess with the wingers we have now. i could see it going either way with drai at this point.
 

Missing smitty

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Oct 1, 2018
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Couldn't figure it out either. Its odd to switch to Arizona. I mean that's generally pretty poor prognosis there. I'm not into switching but Winnipeg, Vegas, SJ, those would be the hot bets.

As for effort its very rare in the pro sporting world that you actually get consistent effort, from anybody. But the NHL season and playoffs is largely seen as a battle of attrition.

Even in a sport like Tennis the pro tour players feel their are way too many tournaments and they cannot give their best in every game. Its a well known and established problem. As a star player on a team like this the reality is you try to cover for the team deficits as much, and as long as you can and then you start hitting a wall and seeing the leaks more. Drai has prevented a lot of GA this season. Does he still contribute some questionable plays? Sure? Does he care enough to get better? sure.

Does any player on the bench look more impacted by losing than connor or Leon? These players care.

The whole not being able to give your all game in and game out is a crock of shit. I spent 10.5 months in Afghanistan working my ass off day in, day out. These are elite athletes, in the physical prime of their lives. If they can't work their asses off for 20 minutes a night, every couple of days and then take 3-4 months off, while making millions of dollars to play a game, they can go pound salt. I don't care if they just can't get stuff done that night, the least they can do is work.
 

TopShelfGloveSide

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Dec 10, 2018
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The whole not being able to give your all game in and game out is a crock of ****. I spent 10.5 months in Afghanistan working my ass off day in, day out. These are elite athletes, in the physical prime of their lives. If they can't work their asses off for 20 minutes a night, every couple of days and then take 3-4 months off, while making millions of dollars to play a game, they can go pound salt. I don't care if they just can't get stuff done that night, the least they can do is work.
Deployment?
 

MaxR11

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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Summer 2011 to spring 2012. Not the point though, lol. I just hate the whole "can't bring it for 82 game" crap. The least they can do is hustle, that's all I care about seeing.

yup... at least be engaged in the game. a lot of times drai just drifts through the games like he's sleep walking. that complete lack of awareness for kane coming in was nothing new. it's just the other times he does things like that it's not as spotlighted. there are too many games or stretches during games that drai is just "not into it".... mentally or physically. it'll affect him offensively too.... he gets lazy and not want to hang on to the puck or move his feet and instead will just try to fire completely horrendous hope passes. it's like sometimes when he's not playing with connor his mindset is like... "what's the point... my linemates suck... i'm probably not getting any points playing with them so maybe i'll just save my energy and cheat for some hope offence and not waste my energy working hard". and then a lot of the times he gets reunited with connor later in the game and he's all of the sudden got that jump in his step and the effort level rises 5 folds. don't like that mentality that "if there's less chance to create a goal... i'll just put in less effort and be less engaged".
 

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