Post-Game Talk: Where's all that talent Bob?....

Discussion in 'Edmonton Oilers' started by BlackMcDog, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Frank the Tank

    Frank the Tank Blue, you're my boy!

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    I'll take Hitchcock's comments about helping his home town team and its fans at face value until he proves otherwise. I see no evidence that his made this decision as a career improving move.
     
  2. rboomercat90

    rboomercat90 Registered User

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    I don’t recall anyone suggesting he be healthy scratched either. I myself said the coach should discipline him to send a message to him and others that type of effort is unacceptable.
     
  3. HK97

    HK97 Registered User

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    absolutely! we've all seen the dominance of Drai in the 2017 playoff run. we seen what a great player he can be. i want him to be a solution here but he has to be better to be that solution. i'm disappointed because i know what kind of level he has and outside of collecting a bunch of points with connor, he's been somewhat disappointing as far as engagement and effort far more often than i'd like to see. it may come off as "flaming" but as i said it's because i know he's overall a better player than he's shown. i feel his pain, with the lack of scoring support but that's no reason to pack it in and not to try to improve your overall game for next season etc. can't check out.

    it's just some posters here are too sensitive when you start criticizing certain players... they get their f****** ovarian tubes all tied up in a knot trying to defend said player(s).
     
  4. onetweasy

    onetweasy Registered User

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    To be fair to Hitch our former GM managed to trade away our serviceable 3rd line center for nothing, a winger who could score (very minimal offnce but he could) for a popcorn eating d man with term and he lost Klefbom for a month. Imagine looking at our forward group to start the year and thinking to yourself......I bet our GM will make this group even worse by Christmas!

    But at the end of the day I am finally done blaming anyone but upper management. This is a dysfunctional organization and nothing will change until the higher ups are replaced by competent individuals.
     
  5. Stoneman89

    Stoneman89 Registered User

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    I seem to recall him speculating about coming back next year, if they offered him the job. Of course, that was when things were rosy. I'm not sure he feels too keen about it now. Matter of fact, I think this season is really going to take it out of him.
     
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  6. Stoneman89

    Stoneman89 Registered User

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    You may be closer to the truth than you think.
     
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  7. bucks_oil

    bucks_oil Registered User

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    No hold on there. I don't think that's exactly what's being said. At least by me (and granted I didn't read 1000 pages of this post).

    But you seem to be saying here and in your tongue-in-cheek post about orange slices... that talent beats all.

    And that's just absolutely false. Look at Vegas. SCF with a bunch of NHL level cast offs. They may be there again this year.

    Look at our 2006 team. A bunch of average guys with a uber-alpha-HOF Dman. You know what made that team great? They always supported each other on the ice and gave 100% of their talent each shift. Fully engaged.

    Fast forward and we've seen a decade of guys who start off giving 100% of their talent, but then after several seasons of losing, frustration sets in and we see 100% some nights, heck some shifts... and 75% on other shifts.

    It's natural, its understandable, but it isn't team play. We sag, we sulk, we are easily frustrated, we check out mentally from the game. And before we know it, we're down two goals instead of one. And the cascade to the bottom begins.

    It comes down yes, to having requisite talent, and we don't have a HOF Dman, but it wasn't Pronger's skill that made him a good leader... it was the expectation (and confidence) he instilled in others that allowed them to dig deeper and continue to give 100% even after a bad shift.

    Our team was in a playoff spot a month ago... we could have been adding reinforcements at the deadline. And we've soiled the sheets because we've learned more about how to lose than how to win.

    Drai's not a cause of our "culture", the guy plays the game (typically) the right way... and for that same reason he's also right up there with our biggest hopes to lead the change of our culture. But when you see a play like that, for me... I worry that he might become a victim of it.
     
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  8. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Registered User

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    Could be.
    I just distrust anything Oilers.
     
  9. North

    North Registered User

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    This. Save for one season this team has had compete issues.
     
  10. space321

    space321 Registered User

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    Vegas is not a team of NHL level cast offs lol...

    They got the most lenient expansion draft rules ever. They got to pick up GOOD to GREAT players who were buried in the depth chart of top teams. Compare Vegas expansion rules to MIN/CBJ expansion and you can see the difference lol.

    All this talk about culture, attitude and effort level is pure BULL****. This team is full of players who wouldn't even be in the NHL on another team. They ****ing suck and it's not because Draisaitl is not "leading the change".

    Also, do you seriously think Pronger would be the same kind of leader if he played like Brandon Manning? Don't kid yourself. Being a superstar level player is a big part of being a great leader, because it gives you the ability to lead by example on and off the ice. Who's gonna listen to the guy that can only play 12 minutes a game and give up scoring chances like they're candy every shift?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  11. Drivesaitl

    Drivesaitl Civilized Worm

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    Holy crap, did somebody take over your account? The 2006 Oilers club was loaded with talent and especially after the added players for the playoff run. That team was deep enough to roll lines and they won games playing the depth card.

    There is no team that has as bad a forward roster as the Oilers do that makes a big run, or that even makes the playoffs. We only fill out a top line putting all our forward assets there.

    You actually think this lineup is good enough, talented enough? I'm surprised by that.

    Nor were we in a playoff spot, or at least legitimately, a month ago. This team has barely been over bettman .500.
     
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  12. Drivesaitl

    Drivesaitl Civilized Worm

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    70% of the lineup we ice is pure crap. Why do you think we have trouble competing?

    This dog won't hunt.

    We have a forward lineup so deplorable we depend on a PTO that wasn't even supposed to make the team (Upshall was supposed to be here instead of Chiasson) and that ices players like Yama, Spooner, Khaira, Cave, Kassian, Lucic, Old Brodziak, expecting they will do something.

    There aren't 5 forwards in this lineup a person could get legitimately excited about. We have the absolute worst forward depth in the entire league. Add to this that we do not have one D on this team that is even close to being elite.

    The only thing Not wrong on this club is McDrai, Nuge, Nurse. We have some other pieces like Klef, Larsson but after that its a crap lineup we're putting out every night.
     
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  13. Drivesaitl

    Drivesaitl Civilized Worm

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    Character Ference would have been a good example of what you are pointing out. Man, this thread though, it keeps delivering. can't believe some of the comments today.

    The 2006 Oilers were LOADED due to the favorable CBA and other clubs having to reduce cap. Then the team loaded big time with TDL acquisitions. Soon as we got Roloson that engine was going to start firing.
     
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  14. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Registered User

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    Like Drivesaitl and Space321 said Vegas and the ‘06 Oilers were hardly short on skill. This team would be a playoff lock with anywhere near that depth. They also both benefited from inhuman playoff performances from their goaltenders.

    The reason the Oilers seem to have dropped off is because the 3 or 4 players carrying the team are running on fumes.

    It’s not culture or buy in. It’s a lack of anyone to pick up the slack at all.

    But, as we’ve seen in the past the people running the show have a hard time assessing talent and chalk it up as culture.
    I’m not aiming this at you but you’re stating here it’s a culture problem and you’re concerned Drai is falling into a losing culture.

    From there it’s a short trip to trading him in the name of “culture”.
    Compounding the lack of talent.

    Of course talent alone isn’t enough, but without it you have nothing.

    If people truly believe Drai isn’t putting in his share, they’re crazy.
     
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  15. 48g90a138pts

    48g90a138pts Registered User

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    Blah... if the Oilers lose the next three games and the other basement dwellers do decent we could be looking at 29th or 30th by the end of the weekend.

    Wings and Devils both have 4 games they both could take two of them. If the Kings and Ducks go 2-1 they'd pass us. That would put us in a tie with the devils, but would pass the Oilers in ROW.

    :facepalm:

    How the hell did this team fall so fast after the all-star break?
     
  16. space321

    space321 Registered User

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    Oh yeah, I was trying to think of someone and was going to mention Horcoff but at least Horc was decent for a while. Completely forgot about Ference lmao, that should speak volumes about how trash he was.

    Can you imagine Ference trying to hold the rest of the team accountable, he'd have to healthy scratch himself every game before trying to blame anyone else
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  17. bucks_oil

    bucks_oil Registered User

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    You know... you say that, and sure it was lenient for them. But interestingly, if you objectively look at the guys on our team who were with different orgs two years ago, you find:
    Protected: Reider, Spooner, Manning, Petrovic,
    Not Protected: Chaisson, Brodziak

    So four out of six were deemed by their respective GMs to be "too good" to be available to Vegas.

    Strange but true.
     
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  18. Drivesaitl

    Drivesaitl Civilized Worm

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    They didn't by any great degree. Other teams got better, and bringing better performances, as most lineups are capable of, after the ASG when teams roll up their sleeves and get to work.

    Every roster in the league is deeper than what we have. Teams can just roll lines and destroy us in games through the lineup. We don't even have a legitimate 4th line at any point. Every game we have a few forwards that are generally awful playing 5-8mins a night.

    The org is trying to clone McDrai by playing them each 25mins/night and wishing it was humanly capable of more but this ain't basketball..
     
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  19. space321

    space321 Registered User

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    I fail to see how what you said contradicts my point in any way? What are you trying to say exactly? That just because FLA decided to **** up, and that bottom tier teams like PHI and ARI didn't have enough depth so they were able to protect Reider/Manning, then the rest of the players VGK drafted must be equally garbage? Just because we only had to give up Reinhart doesn't mean other teams were similar. Take a look at what VGK got from MIN/CBJ/NSH/PIT/WSH/BOS/STL, those are all quality players wwho benefited from more ice time.
     
  20. paul jambon

    paul jambon Registered User

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    Teams winning thanks to 'heart' and 'try' and 'culture' is what movies are made of. Things like the Miracle on Ice. If that 06 team won as an 8 seed it would have been one of the most impressive cup wins of the modern era.

    Nicholson should know this from his time around hockey Canada. Put a team like Germany or Latvia against Canada for Olympic gold and the lesser team would play with more compete/try/hustle/etc. than any of us had ever seen before and STILL come up short 10 times out of 10.

    I watched the first period of the Sharks game and I saw an Oilers team that was trying, at least at first. Their execution and cohesiveness was poor because the team is not good enough. When the Sharks went up by one goal their confidence evaporated and they blew it, like so many other games. The players know they need a ton of luck just to overcome a one goal deficit to a team like the Sharks.

    In the NHL competence begets confidence. I wish the higher-ups in this organization understood that.
     
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  21. Stoneman89

    Stoneman89 Registered User

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    Maybe throw in lack of talent and no depth in a few of those seasons as well. Don’t confuse that with lack of compete.
     
  22. drewjenks

    drewjenks Registered User

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    Nah Sens are destined to win the Jack Hughes sweepstakes.

    Dorion & Melnyk will both have shrines in Colorado.
     
  23. North

    North Registered User

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    There was a lack of talent for sure but the effort has been an issue too.

    If they're working hard that's one thing but this team doesn't always do that.
     
  24. HK97

    HK97 Registered User

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    well summed up by Dustin Neilson....

    Ken Hitchcock is extremely frustrated with what he’s seeing from the Oilers right now but his feelings likely pale in comparison to what fans are dealing with yet again. Only the most optimistic of people would truly believe the Oilers could still make a run to the post-season if you are one of them, good for you! Their Head Coach was full of criticism and disappointment after a loss to the Sharks on Saturday night.

    “When you put skill ahead of work you get burned, and there’s just too much of that going on, we address it all the time, we think we’re moving in the right direction and we just stumble badly,” he said. “It isn’t even what the other team is doing to us, we just shoot ourselves in the foot.”
    While he didn’t directly mention Leon Draisaitl in that quote I think most of us can put one and one together and realize who he’s talking about. I see a number of people talking about Draisaitl haters and how in the end the MSM is going to run him out of town. I don’t think this is the case at all.
    Draisaitl is a phenomenal offensive talent, especially when he is on the ice with Connor McDavid. If this team is going to have long term success Draisaitl will most certainly be a part of it but as a leader on this team, Draisaitl needs to know that other players are watching when he loses Evander Kane in the neutral zone or flies by the front of his own next against Chicago. Support players on any roster, in any sport, will be driven to work harder and do the little things better when they see the superstars doing the same thing.
    So once again, I’m not running Draisaitl out of town; I’m merely using him as an example of elite players needing to be held accountable in all aspects of the game. Don’t get me wrong, the play of the talented German is way down on the list of Oilers issues, but him setting an example for others will go along way in the future of this organization, a future that he will be a huge part of. It is possible to really like Draisaitl’s game while at the same time thinking he can do better in some aspects of it.

    The end is near
     
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  25. MessierII

    MessierII Registered User

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    Switzerland beat and eliminated Canada in 2006. In 2010 the team was a fluttering puck about 2 inches off from losing to Slovakia and playing for bronze.
     

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