Where would you rather finish at the end of the regular season?

[badbrains]

How many similar trades to Subban for Weber have you seen?

Almost none. Because that was a stupid trade no matter how it's spun.

 

[OldCraig71]

How many similar trades to Subban for Weber have you seen?

Chiarelli giving up Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson, they are both ranked 30 and 31 as gms, coincidence? I think not.

 

[Belial]

Not really.

If you want an example of waiting too long to move a player, Plekanec is a perfect example. Now he’s getting you barely marginal nhl players and a 2nd. A pick that has very small percentage of actually etching out an nhl career.

The question is very simple.

Will Pacioretty be worth his cap hit when the habs are attempting to contend?

This team is not trying to tank, and I've been saying it for a while..

 

[417]

This team is not trying to tank, and I've been saying it for a while..

Doesn't look like they're trying to compete either...

Seems more like they're trying not to lose if anything.

 

[Belial]

Doesn't look like they're trying to compete either...

Seems more like they're trying not to lose if anything.

I've been saying it for a while actually, they're trying to rebuild while being competitive...

 

[EdAVSfan]

I've been saying it for a while actually, they're trying to rebuild while being competitive...

Sadly, that will result in a continuance of mediocrity.

This team is not trying to tank, and I've been saying it for a while..

I’m not saying they’re trying to tank either.

To be honest, I have no idea wtf they’re doing. They make decisions that point in multiple directions and multiple visions. It’s beyond confusing.

They’re not trying to tank, but they’re certainly not trying to win. So what are they doing?

 

[Takeru]

I've been saying it for a while actually, they're trying to rebuild while being competitive...

Depending on your definition of "being competitive", I'd be curious how many teams have been successful at doing both at the same time in the past 10 years.

The steps to succeeding in these two goals are usually pretty opposite.

 

[417]

I've been saying it for a while actually, they're trying to rebuild while being competitive...

I get and even agree with that approach strategically...

But I don't think they've gone about it the right way at all.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I've been saying it for a while actually, they're trying to rebuild while being competitive...

What does that even mean though? What does “compete” mean? Compete for what? Playoffs? Cup?
And how do you rebuild while competing? They are two completely diverging ideologies.

 

[417]

Depending on your definition of "being competitive", I'd be curious how many teams have been successful at doing both at the same time in the past 10 years.

The steps to succeeding in these two goals are usually pretty opposite.

I think you can be competitive in the immediate while also keeping an eye and building towards the future, I think that's a sustainable model.

But this is not what they're doing or have done.

 

[habsgirl5000]

I think you can be competitive in the immediate while also keeping an eye and building towards the future, I think that's a sustainable model.

isnt that what we have been doing for the past 25 years?

but where has it got us?.....we are right back at the beginning

 

[417]

isnt that what we have been doing for the past 25 years?

but where has it got us?.....we are right back at the beginning

It may have been the goal...but it was poorly executed.

So no, I don't think that's what they've been doing for the past 25yrs

I do think that competing now AND keeping an eye towards the future can and should go hand in hand, I think the best and most successful sports organizations have figured this out.

The New England Patriots have turned into a dynasty using this model.

 

[Draft]

What does that even mean though? What does “compete” mean? Compete for what? Playoffs? Cup?
And how do you rebuild while competing? They are two completely diverging ideologies.

I can't say I agree. The team is replacing core players and attempting to acquire draft picks. Moving on from older players and giving young players a chance to fulfil bigger roles. You can still attempt to make the playoffs while all of this is happening.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Don’t forget Cozens.......so so crucial to the success of this franchise moving forward that we finish in the bottom 4......to have one of Hughes, Cozens, Dach, Turcotte, Lavoie would set us up for the next decade

For Montreal to be "set up for the next decade" they probably need at least one D prospect with serious top pair potential (or an actual generational or near generational forward prospect). One of 5 really good prospects isn't going to set Montreal up for the next decade, it'll elevate their prospect pool from average for the 2019-2020 season.

 

[jaffy27]

What does that even mean though? What does “compete” mean? Compete for what? Playoffs? Cup?
And how do you rebuild while competing? They are two completely diverging ideologies.

Competing is a mindset, make sure your guys are never giving up or start cheating and start playing lazy.

We just won’t win on not having centres while other teams thrive as they have that centre depth. Plus our D is still weak compared to other teams. We can’t transition and we can’t sustain. WhTs gonna happen here is it’s all gonna show up at the same time...../Poehling, Kotka, (Hughes/Dach/Cozens/Lavoie).....we will go from the worst centre depth to being in that top third in talent.

I like our right side of the D moving forward, now we need to work on the Left Side....we need to get lucky with a second pick here.

Future looks very bright

For Montreal to be "set up for the next decade" they probably need at least one D prospect with serious top pair potential (or an actual generational or near generational forward prospect). One of 5 really good prospects isn't going to set Montreal up for the next decade, it'll elevate their prospect pool from average for the 2019-2020 season.

With Kotka, Poehling and one of Cozens/Hughes/Dach.....I’d say we’d be set. Was talking more in the sense of our centres

Yes, you are right, we do need a top flight LHD, we need to get lucky there. I like the RHD side of things and our wingers are good enough.

 

[Takeru]

I think you can be competitive in the immediate while also keeping an eye and building towards the future, I think that's a sustainable model.

But this is not what they're doing or have done.

You need stellar drafting if you want to achieve both. That or you're able to fleece other GMs on a regular basis.

Otherwise, you'll have much trouble replenishing your stock of elite players needed to stay competitive (enough to have a legitimate shot at the cup at least).

In theory the model sounds nice. However, as I've pointed out, I can't think of many teams that have succeeded at doing so recently.

 

[417]

You need stellar drafting if you want to achieve both. That or you're able to fleece other GMs on a regular basis.

Otherwise, you'll have much trouble replenishing your stock of elite players needed to stay competitive (enough to have a legitimate shot at the cup at least).

In theory the model sounds nice. However, as I've pointed out, I can't think of many teams that have succeeded at doing so recently.

Yes, clearly...and that's why I said the Habs haven't done this.

It's difficult, but it is possible.

 

[Belial]

I get and even agree with that approach strategically...

But I don't think they've gone about it the right way at all.

If you look at that roster, it's pretty damn clear that this team is going to be built around Weber and Price. Finally, I picked the right avatar)))

This team was rebuilding for a while IMO and now with all those decent looking picks I can see some light.

 

[Captain Mountain]

With Kotka, Poehling and one of Cozens/Hughes/Dach.....I’d say we’d be set. Was talking more in the sense of our centres

Yes, you are right, we do need a top flight LHD, we need to get lucky there. I like the RHD side of things and our wingers are good enough.

If we're long-term planning, then I'm not sure the RHD side is all that great. Juulsen, Brook and Fleury look like they have top-4 upside, but I'd be shocked if any of them are top pair guys on a contender. And none are close to being top-4 locks either. Weber and Petry are both in their 30s. Unless Weber ages like Markov or Chara (which is far from a lock, even ignoring his injury history) they need help there.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I can't say I agree. The team is replacing core players and attempting to acquire draft picks. Moving on from older players and giving young players a chance to fulfil bigger roles. You can still attempt to make the playoffs while all of this is happening.

Well that’s specifically why I asked him to qualify “compete”

Because like it or not, actively attempting to compete entails making decisions to achieve goals. If the goal is to compete for the playoffs, where does the cutoff end? Do you attempt to acquire players if you’re close at the deadline?
Pretty sure that goes against the idea of rebuilding as well.

It seems to me, that you guys want a competitive team while rebuilding the core. The problem is, rebuilding a core, generally requires core players. And core players are mostly obtained early on in the draft.

Seems like some of you want the best of both worlds. Very very very difficult to do and generally requires lots of luck.

 

[417]

If you look at that roster, it's pretty damn clear that this team is going to be built around Weber and Price. Finally, I picked the right avatar)))

This team was rebuilding for a while IMO and now with all those decent looking picks I can see some light.

If you're telling me it took 7yrs to get to this point...then there was something wrong with that plan.

I mean, I can't subscribe to the idea that this team was "rebuilding for awhile"...until this past year, they've done very little to add extra draft picks, they didn't sell high on veterans with value, etc.

I can also see some light, thanks to the last 2 drafts, but why the hell did it take so long?

Where we are at right now, is where we should have been in year 2 or 3 of MB's tenure...not year 7

 

[417]

Well that’s specifically why I asked him to qualify “compete”

Because like it or not, actively attempting to compete entails making decisions to achieve goals. If the goal is to compete for the playoffs, where does the cutoff end? Do you attempt to acquire players if you’re close at the deadline?
Pretty sure that goes against the idea of rebuilding as well.

It seems to me, that you guys want a competitive team while rebuilding the core. The problem is, rebuilding a core, generally requires core players. And core players are mostly obtained early on in the draft.

Seems like some of you want the best of both worlds. Very very very difficult to do and generally requires lots of luck.

Or good drafting...

 

[EdAVSfan]

Competing is a mindset, make sure your guys are never giving up or start cheating and start playing lazy.

We just won’t win on not having centres while other teams thrive as they have that centre depth. Plus our D is still weak compared to other teams. We can’t transition and we can’t sustain. WhTs gonna happen here is it’s all gonna show up at the same time...../Poehling, Kotka, (Hughes/Dach/Cozens/Lavoie).....we will go from the worst centre depth to being in that top third in talent.

I like our right side of the D moving forward, now we need to work on the Left Side....we need to get lucky with a second pick here.

Future looks very bright

Sure competing is a mindset.

But players aren’t dumb. They see the “help” that is being brought in. They see the 9 million in cap sitting. They see and hear the rumours of their captain potentially being dealt.

I get the theory of competing while rebuilding. It’s a nice idea. But it’s flawed in practice.

So again, that’s why I asked him to qualify the word “compete”

 

[habsgirl5000]

If you look at that roster, it's pretty damn clear that this team is going to be built around Weber and Price.

you don't build a team around two 30+ players who are on the decline,

you build around good young kids, problem is we dont have any,

players like weber and price should be very small additions to an already well built team

 

[Belial]

If you're telling me it took 7yrs to get to this point...then there was something wrong with that plan.

I mean, I can't subscribe to the idea that this team was "rebuilding for awhile"...until this past year, they've done very little to add extra draft picks, they didn't sell high on veterans with value, etc.

I can also see some light, thanks to the last 2 drafts, but why the hell did it take so long?

Where we are at right now, is where we should have been in year 2 or 3 of MB's tenure...not year 7

The team did great when Bergevin took over but it was fake IMO, that team just overachieved.

I think now this roster underachieved severely and next season they will do a lot better.