Where does the JT Miller trade rank in Canucks history?

[Hit the post]

Looking better in every way than I originally thought I will admit. Glad to eat crow on this one.

BUT, remember how good Tiger Williams looked for us after the trade deadline and the following season for us (actually outscored Rick Vaive during that period).

 

[Bleach Clean]

I see your point and I agree, but now that it's done it's hard to evaluate when you go too far into the context of the trade, like what if he doesn't do anything while here.

Like I was exhuberant when we dumped Guddy for Pearson, but then instead of Guddy throwing pizza's to opponents in the slot every game we had Pearson go on a 40 goal scoring pace from the deadline to the end of the season. That trade alone is probably worth three slots in the draft lottery, either putting us where NYR was when they won the lottery giving us Kakko or at minimum letting us draft Zegras. So in that way the trade was a phenomenal win in player value but maybe not ideal for long term, but it gets way too hard to evaluate trades like this so we stick with Pearson for guddy being a huge win because as a transaction it was.

Immediately post-trade I called it a break even trade if Miller scored 55-60 and we made the playoffs. For a PPG 1st line winger it's a no brainer even if we miss the playoffs unless the pick wins the lotto.

Agree with most of what you say here, except the exclusion of the playoffs in the face of a 1st line performance. The playoffs are the impetus for this trade. The compensation hinges on making them.

So I would say it matters less that he’s a PPG winger, which no one has ventured will be his new career norm, than it does making the playoffs with what would have been his normal career PPG average. He could have done the latter and the perception would be of a trade win.

And of course, the context behind the deal itself still looks like a desperate GM scorching future earth to make the playoffs for 1 year. That will always be there regardless of the damage being mitigated by making it. That makes it have a different feel than the Ehrhoff robbery, the draft day magic of the Sedins, or Luongo/Bertuzzi steal.

 

[Bleach Clean]

That is flawed logic right there.

We traded Miller for the chance of that happening.

Now, if we make the playoffs both years, that would change the equation. But to wait snd see how the draftlottery unfolds and decide based on that makes no sense to me.



Sigh........

I think you would have to quantify at least the rough position of the pick in order to judge the deal fairly.

Whether that’s waiting until next year or locking in a 20+ pick this year, either route allows for the trade to be grounded by a concrete return. The variance is gone. Right now, it’s still guess work. (Though I think they are heavy favourites to make the playoffs as of right now)

 

[RebuildinVan]

Getting a useful 50 point player for Gudbranson. You have to ignore the getting Gudbranson trade to fully appreciate it

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I hated the trade at the time... as I felt that, one way or another, we were going to give up a top 5 pick (and knowing our luck, a 1OA).
As it stands, if we end up just giving up a 20+OA pick, then it’s a big win regardless of who TB/NJ gets.
Still, we’ll see how our Canuck Luck pans out, though.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

all time worst canucks trades?

barry pederson for neely, the glen wesley pick, lucic and horton (of course)

adrian aucoin for cloutier

kesler for a 26 yr old center, anaheim’s lower first round pick, and their sixth best young dman

bob dailey for larry “not” goodenough and jack mcilharghey

kassian and a pick for prust

whi?

 

[NoShowWilly]

if he gives us this output for the next 3 years as well then it is definitely up there. we arent even a season in yet nor do we have the full scope of the trade.

we have hindsight on nearly all the others talked about.

 

[Ace of Hades]

luongo for bertuzzi’s corpse

a second sedin for mccabe and a late first

linden for bertuzzi, mccabe, and the jarkko ruutu pick

markus naslund for alek stojanov

courtnall, ronning, big mo, and robert dirk for butcher and quinn

there’s five right there

Don't forget Patrick White for Christian Ehrhoff and Brad Lukowich.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Don't forget Patrick White for Christian Ehrhoff and Brad Lukowich.

my fav pair of trades was pat quinn getting lumme for a 2nd and diduck for a 4th, both from montreal, in the span of ten months.

just think about how good miller, weighed against the 1st and 3rd rounders, would have to be over his canuck career to equal the value of our best two dmen of the early 90s, weighed against a 2nd and a 4th, respectively.

 

[Addison Rae]

I love me some JT Miller but I think this is a bit early.

 

[Jyrki21]

my fav pair of trades was pat quinn getting lumme for a 2nd and diduck for a 4th, both from montreal, in the span of ten months.

Auto-like.

 

[Ace of Hades]

my fav pair of trades was pat quinn getting lumme for a 2nd and diduck for a 4th, both from montreal, in the span of ten months.

just think about how good miller, weighed against the 1st and 3rd rounders, would have to be over his canuck career to equal the value of our best two dmen of the early 90s, weighed against a 2nd and a 4th, respectively.

Consider your post liked.

 

[Hit the post]

Auto-like.

Easy auto-like for Hit the Post:

Canucks trade a 2nd round pick for..Jyrki Lumme!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

guys guys yes lumme, but the best physical defensive defenceman we’ve ever had... for a fourth round pick. after they already just gave us lumme.

they also gave away sylvain lefebvre to the leafs for nothing and the habs still won the ffffing cup

and chelios. they also gave away ffffing chris chelios

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think you would have to quantify at least the rough position of the pick in order to judge the deal fairly.

Whether that’s waiting until next year or locking in a 20+ pick this year, either route allows for the trade to be grounded by a concrete return. The variance is gone. Right now, it’s still guess work. (Though I think they are heavy favourites to make the playoffs as of right now)

What Im saying is that wr should judge the trade with the information available at the time of the trade.

The results of the lottery dont move the needle for me one bit.

 

[SillyRabbit]

What Im saying is that wr should judge the trade with the information available at the time of the trade.

The results of the lottery dont move the needle for me one bit.

Honest question:

If we aren't factoring what the pick turns out to be, why are we factoring in what Miller has done this season?

Miller has far surpassed anyone's expectations. Which makes the trade look good for us.

But what if the draft pick is a steal and far surpasses anyone's expectations? Why should that be ignored?

Feels like we should factor in both or neither if we want to be 100% objective.

 

[Ainec]

I like the Ehrhoff trade more

 

[Wry n Ginger]

I love the trade so far but it's not even top 5 at this point. Here is one that hasn't been mentioned yet.

To Vancouver

Steve Bosek
Paul Reinhart

To Calgary

3rd round pick

 

[RobertKron]

Honest question:

If we aren't factoring what the pick turns out to be, why are we factoring in what Miller has done this season?

Miller has far surpassed anyone's expectations. Which makes the trade look good for us.

But what if the draft pick is a steal and far surpasses anyone's expectations? Why should that be ignored?

Feels like we should factor in both or neither if we want to be 100% objective.

You could argue that Benning/the scouts/whoever saw more in Miller than others may have, and believed he'd be better than expected when they made the deal. You can't argue that about the player eventually selected with a pick that nobody even knew which position or draft year it would be.

 

[I am toxic]

Deleted, server is in the Twilight Zone

 

[I am toxic]

my fav pair of trades was pat quinn getting lumme for a 2nd and diduck for a 4th, both from montreal, in the span of ten months.

just think about how good miller, weighed against the 1st and 3rd rounders, would have to be over his canuck career to equal the value of our best two dmen of the early 90s, weighed against a 2nd and a 4th, respectively.

Brett Hedican needs to be in the conversation.

Brown . . . is complicated . . .

But your point stands - value on those trades, along with St Louis trade, along with Bure in the 5th round . . . contender

 

[Hit the post]

along with Bure in the 5th round . . . contender

That involved some rather questionable and or greasy practices like finding mysterious game day sheets out of nowhere.

 

[I am toxic]

That involved some rather questionable and or greasy practices like finding mysterious game day sheets out of nowhere.

It's only cheating if you get caught . . .

 

[Hit the post]

It's only cheating if you get caught . . .

Houston Astros say ‘hold my beer’.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I love the trade so far but it's not even top 5 at this point. Here is one that hasn't been mentioned yet.

To Vancouver

Steve Bosek
Paul Reinhart

To Calgary

3rd round pick

the best part of that trade was reinhart scored the OT winner in game one, the eventual game winner in game four, i'm pretty sure he was on the ice for practically all the vancouver goals in game six, and picked up assists on two of vancouver's three goals in game 7.

...of course he was also swimming on defence when otto kicked it in in overtime