Where does Steph Curry and Kevin Durant rank among all time greats?

[Aladyyn]

compare it to the rest of the league during his time. It wasn't that bad at all.

It looks bad in this era , for sure.

Guys can improve their shots if they put the time in , and the era demands it. Look across the league at all the players that have adapted.

Friggin' Valanciunas is shooting 3's now.

The era when Larry Bird had 4 straight seasons of 40+%? Yawn.

I also don't think it's fair to assume every player can develop a good 3pt shot. Just look at a guy like DeRozan.

 

[Il Mediano]

The era when Larry Bird had 4 straight seasons of 40+%? Yawn.

So you're choosing arguably the best shooting wing player of all-time to make your argument about an entire era?

"Logic".

Look across the league , look at the attempts. It just wasn't utilized to the same degree. Everyone should know this. It changed from a luxury to a necessity and it took decades to do so.

To suggest that people were incapable of learning how to shoot 30 years ago , is just asinine. The human race hasn't evolved that much.

Like I said , guys like Brook Lopez are shooting 3's now. If you think Zeke wouldn't have adapted , your nuts.

 

[Neutrinos]

Wall vs Thomas (first 9 seasons)

Wall (per 36 minutes)
19 points, 9.2 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 0.7 blocks, 3.8 turnovers, .518 TS%, 19.5 PER

Thomas (per 36 minutes)
19.7 points, 9.7 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.8 turnovers, .522 TS%, 18.9 PER


So, again, if anyone would like to explain to me how Thomas is superior to Wall, I'd love to hear your explanation, because the numbers don't support anything other than these 2 having had a nearly identical impact when on the floor

 

[Stylizer1]

Certain player types had no issue.

Name a focal point scoring player with Curry's (lack of) athleticism/body type that dominated in the 90's on the perimeter.

It just didn't happen. You needed size/athleticism to be a scoring guard (that's an elite player) , or you'd be a facilitator , or worse a role player.

He'd be forced to use ball-screens way more , and he wouldn't be nearly as effective driving to the hoop despite having a ridiculous touch around the rim.

Iverson was really the first guy to break the mold (as an elite scorer), and no , I don't think Curry could've handled the punishment A.I took earlier in his career , nor do I think he was a good of an athlete. A.I was a freak , Curry's just not.

You can't touch people out there any more , that has benefitted Curry as much as anyone. Zone defense means nothing to a guy with his range. Zone defense hurts the big man , or the slasher, more than the shooter. It has to be man-to-man against Curry , and you have to fight through a million screens (which they don't even let you do anymore). If you switch a big on to him - you die.

In the 90's that wouldn't have been as big of an issue , because you could actually put hands on people and fight through screens. A hand-checked Curry being funnelled into the paint is not a 30 ppg guy. Not unless he's on a historically stacked team again.

Curry would have been a more athletic Reggie Miller.

 

[Neutrinos]

Curry would have been a more athletic Reggie Miller.

 

[Il Mediano]

Curry would have been a more athletic Reggie Miller.

Reggie was 6' 7".

Curry is miles more skilled , but athletically? I'm not really seeing it. They're both around the same for their respective positions. Adequate.

 

[phillyjabroni]

I would just like to take this time to announce that every single contributor to this thread has the same amount of Finals MVPs as Steph Curry.

 

[Stylizer1]

Reggie was 6' 7".

Curry is miles more skilled , but athletically? I'm not really seeing it. They're both around the same for their respective positions. Adequate.

I'm talking about effectiveness in that era.

 

[Aladyyn]

Reggie Miller doesn't even deserve to be in the same sentence as. Steph Curry.

 

[Voight]

Reggie Miller doesn't even deserve to be in the same sentence as. Steph Curry.

Going to assume you are like 14-18 and never saw Reggie play in his prime.

 

[Terry Yake]

mark price was so underrated

 

[Maestro84]

Going to assume you are like 14-18 and never saw Reggie play in his prime.

Reggie has no argument over Curry at this point.
Stats:
PPG: 23.2-18.2 Curry
APG: 6.8-3.0 Curry
RPG: 4.4-3.0 Curry
SPG: 1.8-1.1 Curry
BPG: 0.2-0.2 Tie
FG%: 48%-47% Curry
3PT%: 44%-40% Curry
FT%: 90%-88% Curry

PER: 23.88-18.36
Win Shares/48: 0.2086-0.1758 Curry
TS%: 0.6227-0.6139 Curry
​

Accolades:
Rings: 3-0 Curry
MVPs: 2-0 Curry
First teams: 2-0 Curry
All-NBA teams: 5-3 Curry
Scoring Titles: 1-0 Curry
Steals Leader: 1-0 Curry
50-40-90 season: .504/.454/.908-.503/.421/.908 Curry

In terms of 3PT shooting:
3PT Field Goals Leader: 5-2 Curry
Most 3PT Field Goals made in a season: 402-229 Curry
3PT's made per game: 3.4-1.8 Curry
Career 3PT%: 44%-40% Curry
Peak 3PT% in a season: 0.454-0.429 Curry
3PT Contests won: 1-0 Curry

Curry also holds significantly more NBA records than Reggie does and was the MVP of the league in consecutive years while leading his team to a championship and the regular season record in wins, prior to KD joining, and even now, Curry is still their most valuable/impactful player.

People can never seem to recognize greatness in the moment, especially when comparing current greats with former greats. Whenever someone puts a current superstar over a retired one, they get accused of "being too young" or "recency bias" even if the current player has solidly eclipsed the fomer one in comparison

 

[Terry Yake]

obviously curry is ahead of miller in every facet of the game but to say miller shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as curry is lol

miller was a stud back in the day

 

[Neutrinos]

obviously curry is ahead of miller in every facet of the game but to say miller shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as curry is lol

miller was a stud back in the day

Kinda surprising to see that Miller was only a 5x all-star

 

[Voight]

Kinda surprising to see that Miller was only a 5x all-star

He had MJ,Magic, Thomas & Dumars to compete in the early half of his career, then he had to compete with a litany of star guards - Penny, Stockton, Payton, Hardaway, Richmond along with MJ & Drexler as he hit his prime.

 

[Aladyyn]

Kinda surprising to see that Miller was only a 5x all-star

Well he is the most overrated 2-guard of all time, so it shouldn't be that surprising.

He wouldn't be a top 5 shooting guard in the league right now.

 

[Neutrinos]

Well he is the most overrated 2-guard of all time, so it shouldn't be that surprising.

He wouldn't be a top 5 shooting guard in the league right now.

Klay Thompson would seem to be a pretty good comparable, I would think

EDIT: After a quick glance at the stats, it would seem Miller was noticeably better than Thompson


Also, I have Joe Dumars as the most overrated shooting guard in history

15.3 career PER. 19.3 career VORP (value over replacement player)

For comparison sake:

Miller finished with an 18.4 PER and 63.2 career VORP

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Klay Thompson would seem to be a pretty good comparable, I would think

EDIT: After a quick glance at the stats, it would seem Miller was noticeably better than Thompson


Also, I have Joe Dumars as the most overrated shooting guard in history

15.3 career PER. 19.3 career VORP (value over replacement player)

For comparison sake:

Miller finished with an 18.4 PER and 63.2 career VORP

PER is a horrible, horrible metric.

 

[Neutrinos]

PER is a horrible, horrible metric.

What metric do you prefer?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

What metric do you prefer?

Smiles/60 or unicorn percentage.

Look up how it is calculated, anything is better. A player's PER will rise the more shots they take as long as they shoot over 31%, iirc.

 

[Neutrinos]

Smiles/60 or unicorn percentage.

Look up how it is calculated, anything is better. A player's PER will rise the more shots they take as long as they shoot over 31%, iirc.

You've sold me on the flaws of PER. Now what would you suggest we use instead?