OT: Where do you think the Sharks will be in 3 years?

[sa3l33]

On July 5, 2017, hopefully we'll be laughing about the pandemonium that surrounded the team on July 5, 2014.

Hopefully the Sharks will get teased mercilessly during 14-15 in the media and last year's playoff defeat fuels the Sharks all the way to the Cup (defeating the Bruins in 5). In 15-16, the Sharks still on a tear through the regular season and playoffs, but get destroyed in the SCF against the loaded Habs who sweep them. In 16-17, the Sharks, again hell bent on playoff revenge, take their 2nd Cup in 3 seasons in June of 2017 beating the Leafs in 6.

I hope.

Niemi winning 2 playoffs MVP.

 

[The Ice Hockey Dude]

Out of the playoffs!

 

[CanadienShark]

On July 5, 2017, hopefully we'll be laughing about the pandemonium that surrounded the team on July 5, 2014.

Hopefully the Sharks will get teased mercilessly during 14-15 in the media and last year's playoff defeat fuels the Sharks all the way to the Cup (defeating the Bruins in 5). In 15-16, the Sharks still on a tear through the regular season and playoffs, but get destroyed in the SCF against the loaded Habs who sweep them. In 16-17, the Sharks, again hell bent on playoff revenge, take their 2nd Cup in 3 seasons in June of 2017 beating the Leafs in 6.

I hope.

I'd like all of that to happen, except instead of the Leafs in the last bit, it's MTL again.

 

[Jacques Oeuf]

Sharks will be middle of the pack for the next 3 years after missing the opportunity to put the current team over the top by using the the cap space from Boyle and Havlat to add missing pieces Iginla and Mitchell. After 3 lackluster years JT and PM will refuse to be traded at the deadline and walk for nothing at seasons end.

 

[Eighth Fret]

Borderline playoff team that still thinks it has the ingredients to win the Cup.

But hey, we'll be tough to play against with all the goons on the roster!!!

 

[SactoShark]

Funny thing is that in 3 years they will actually be able to rebuild.

 

[Jacques Oeuf]

Funny thing is that in 3 years they will actually be able to rebuild.

This is what drives me crazy. Signing JT and PM last year for 3 years should have meant 3 years of going for it, then a rebuild. Then the Sharks come one game from defeating the eventual Cup champs, and suddenly it's rebuild time even though there is a big chunk of cap space coming free, some good fit UFAs, and no chance in h**l of PM or JT waiving their NMCs.

I truly believe adding Iginla and Willie Mitchell would have put this team over the top. 2 respected veterans to shake up the team, one desperate to win a Cup and the other with the experience to help get there. Instead a rebuild that isn't really possible until JT and PM are gone? WTF!!!!!

 

[Juxtaposer]

This is what drives me crazy. Signing JT and PM last year for 3 years should have meant 3 years of going for it, then a rebuild. Then the Sharks come one game from defeating the eventual Cup champs, and suddenly it's rebuild time even though there is a big chunk of cap space coming free, some good fit UFAs, and no chance in h**l of PM or JT waiving their NMCs.

I truly believe adding Iginla and Willie Mitchell would have put this team over the top. 2 respected veterans to shake up the team, one desperate to win a Cup and the other with the experience to help get there. Instead a rebuild that isn't really possible until JT and PM are gone? WTF!!!!!

Iginla and Mitchell would not have put this team over the top. Neither is half the player they were three years ago.

 

[magic school bus]

I was with you until you said Iginla & Willie Mitchell.

 

[Linkster]

Ladies and gentlemen... your 2017-18 Seattle Killer Whales!

 

[Boy Hedican]

That right. Mitchell and Iginla is what we're missing.

Wow.

These threads are depressing. Especially right now when we have no clue what is going to happen this season with the said "rebuild".

I'm not an extreme optimist by any means but I'd rather wait and see what happens before suggesting we're doomed. I, nor anyone else here, has any control of the outcome.

 

[Jacques Oeuf]

By going into rebuild now they are saying they don't like the leadership of the team, which has been criticized fro years. That's why Iginla and Mitchell fit the bill.

It doesn't matter that they are not the players they were 3 years ago. Iginla had 60 points in Boston last season, top 6 and leadership role on a team one game from the semifinals. Mitchell was playing top 4 minutes for the Stanley Cup Champions and is better than Stuart or Hannan. Do you think it might have been helpful to have Mitchell in a situation where Vlasic gets injured? Do you think a guy like Iginla could light a fire under JT and PM and be a better role model for the kids on the team?

Both could have fit nicely into this team - Iginla replaces Havlat, Mitchell gives a strong defensive presence that nobody was able to fill when Vlasic went down.

The Sharks were one game from beating the eventual Stanley Cup Champions. I disagree strongly that adding 2 players of that caliber (current caliber, not past caliber) would not make a difference.

 

[SJGoalie32]

Joe Thornton & Patrick Marleau re-signed to new matching 3-year contracts.......everybody else from the current roster has been traded or released.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

By going into rebuild now they are saying they don't like the leadership of the team, which has been criticized fro years. That's why Iginla and Mitchell fit the bill.

It doesn't matter that they are not the players they were 3 years ago. Iginla had 60 points in Boston last season, top 6 and leadership role on a team one game from the semifinals. Mitchell was playing top 4 minutes for the Stanley Cup Champions and is better than Stuart or Hannan. Do you think it might have been helpful to have Mitchell in a situation where Vlasic gets injured? Do you think a guy like Iginla could light a fire under JT and PM and be a better role model for the kids on the team?

Both could have fit nicely into this team - Iginla replaces Havlat, Mitchell gives a strong defensive presence that nobody was able to fill when Vlasic went down.

The Sharks were one game from beating the eventual Stanley Cup Champions. I disagree strongly that adding 2 players of that caliber (current caliber, not past caliber) would not make a difference.

Players like Iginla and Mitchell would not be able to come in and be legitimate leaders on this team in the first year. Vets come in and blend in first before assuming real leadership responsibility and acting on it. Boyle and Blake were the same way when they came in. They don't rock the boat the first year.

 

[SJeasy]

By going into rebuild now they are saying they don't like the leadership of the team, which has been criticized fro years. That's why Iginla and Mitchell fit the bill.

It doesn't matter that they are not the players they were 3 years ago. Iginla had 60 points in Boston last season, top 6 and leadership role on a team one game from the semifinals. Mitchell was playing top 4 minutes for the Stanley Cup Champions and is better than Stuart or Hannan. Do you think it might have been helpful to have Mitchell in a situation where Vlasic gets injured? Do you think a guy like Iginla could light a fire under JT and PM and be a better role model for the kids on the team?

Both could have fit nicely into this team - Iginla replaces Havlat, Mitchell gives a strong defensive presence that nobody was able to fill when Vlasic went down.

The Sharks were one game from beating the eventual Stanley Cup Champions. I disagree strongly that adding 2 players of that caliber (current caliber, not past caliber) would not make a difference.

Effectively, Iginla replaced Horton. Did you notice Krejci dropping off? How do you think that happened? Do you think that Iginla might have had something to do with Krejci not producing for the first time in the playoffs? Reputation is one thing, actual production is another.

They may have come up one game short of the ECF, but that was a lot shorter than last season. They performed less well with Iginla.

 

[AstroDan]

Iginla and Mitchell would not have put this team over the top. Neither is half the player they were three years ago.

Exactly!

 

[Jacques Oeuf]

Effectively, Iginla replaced Horton. Did you notice Krejci dropping off? How do you think that happened? Do you think that Iginla might have had something to do with Krejci not producing for the first time in the playoffs? Reputation is one thing, actual production is another.

They may have come up one game short of the ECF, but that was a lot shorter than last season. They performed less well with Iginla.

Seems like a stretch to blame Iginla for Krejci having a poor playoffs, especially after with Iginla Krejci had his 2nd best regular season as a Bruin. The Bruins problem in the Montreal series was they got burned repeatedly by a faster, opportunistic team and a goalie who stood on his head. That's not all on Iginla. And Lucic was horrible. And as for how long it takes new leadership to change a team, maybe, but we are talking about a 3 year window here due to the likely immovable JT and PM contracts.

You all can pick apart Iginla and Mitchell all you want of course I expect that but here is the bottom line:

Would Iginla be better than Havlat was last year?

Would it be nice to have Mitchell as a steadying presence on a D that was exposed as terrible without Vlasic?

Could Iginla and Mitchell have positive influence on the real and/or perceived leadership issues?

to me these 3 are all big time YES.

And IMO the Sharks didn't need much more last year. Even just adding 1 more solid defenseman to keep things from falling apart when Vlasic went down could have done it. (I didn't suggest Niskanen because he's unproven IMO, was going to get overpaid no matter what and doesn't address the leadership issue. But adding him probably would have been enough too).

So, the Sharks (1) didn't need much more to get over the top and (2) you have JT and PM signed for 3 years anyway (and will likely never accept a trade) and (3) gift of $10m+ cap space opened up by Boyle and Havlat

Add those up and to me it makes no sense to rebuild now rather than add a couple pieces to try to go over the top.

IMO the best 2 fits from the available UFA crop were Iginla and Mitchell, and good enough to get it done because though old they can still play and because of how little this team needs to get over the top.

 

[SJeasy]

Seems like a stretch to blame Iginla for Krejci having a poor playoffs, especially after with Iginla Krejci had his 2nd best regular season as a Bruin. The Bruins problem in the Montreal series was they got burned repeatedly by a faster, opportunistic team and a goalie who stood on his head. That's not all on Iginla. And Lucic was horrible. And as for how long it takes new leadership to change a team, maybe, but we are talking about a 3 year window here due to the likely immovable JT and PM contracts.

You all can pick apart Iginla and Mitchell all you want of course I expect that but here is the bottom line:

Would Iginla be better than Havlat was last year?

Would it be nice to have Mitchell as a steadying presence on a D that was exposed as terrible without Vlasic?

Could Iginla and Mitchell have positive influence on the real and/or perceived leadership issues?

to me these 3 are all big time YES.

And IMO the Sharks didn't need much more last year. Even just adding 1 more solid defenseman to keep things from falling apart when Vlasic went down could have done it. (I didn't suggest Niskanen because he's unproven IMO, was going to get overpaid no matter what and doesn't address the leadership issue. But adding him probably would have been enough too).

So, the Sharks (1) didn't need much more to get over the top and (2) you have JT and PM signed for 3 years anyway (and will likely never accept a trade) and (3) gift of $10m+ cap space opened up by Boyle and Havlat

Add those up and to me it makes no sense to rebuild now rather than add a couple pieces to try to go over the top.

IMO the best 2 fits from the available UFA crop were Iginla and Mitchell, and good enough to get it done because though old they can still play and because of how little this team needs to get over the top.

It isn't a stretch. Iggy has slowed down a lot. He still has an excellent shot which showed up on the PP. The thing is that the Krejci line works by Krejci gaining the zone clean and through movement on the entries. It isn't a line that thrives scoringwise on dump and recovery because Krejci isn't that strong holding off on the boards. The wings have to make themselves available to Krejci through using their feet after the entry. Iggy is slower than Horton at this point. I didn't include Lucic, but Iggy would have played into his numbers as well.

Wheelchair and walker lineups don't win. There are exceptions, but generally the top forward scorers are 27 and under.

I am not fond of the "heart" narrative. I think I could make a case for an "ego" narrative more easily. JT's game is based on slowing play and until recently was heavily dependent on PP scoring which is not a recipe for playoff success. His shortcoming is turnovers which are a recipe for disaster in the playoffs. The marginal scoring differences in the playoffs point to a greater dependence on odd mans for scoring. JT has never rushed the play for those kind of opportunities and his issue with turnovers feeds odd mans the other way. Too much ego to greatly modify his game. Isn't it astounding that it took all the way to the Chicago series to go to the coach and ask how to change even after he had served up the Anaheim series on silver platter previously. Bringing another slow player like Iginla, would only exacerbate the issue.

 

[Jacques Oeuf]

It isn't a stretch. Iggy has slowed down a lot. He still has an excellent shot which showed up on the PP. The thing is that the Krejci line works by Krejci gaining the zone clean and through movement on the entries. It isn't a line that thrives scoringwise on dump and recovery because Krejci isn't that strong holding off on the boards. The wings have to make themselves available to Krejci through using their feet after the entry. Iggy is slower than Horton at this point. I didn't include Lucic, but Iggy would have played into his numbers as well.

Wheelchair and walker lineups don't win. There are exceptions, but generally the top forward scorers are 27 and under.

I am not fond of the "heart" narrative. I think I could make a case for an "ego" narrative more easily. JT's game is based on slowing play and until recently was heavily dependent on PP scoring which is not a recipe for playoff success. His shortcoming is turnovers which are a recipe for disaster in the playoffs. The marginal scoring differences in the playoffs point to a greater dependence on odd mans for scoring. JT has never rushed the play for those kind of opportunities and his issue with turnovers feeds odd mans the other way. Too much ego to greatly modify his game. Isn't it astounding that it took all the way to the Chicago series to go to the coach and ask how to change even after he had served up the Anaheim series on silver platter previously. Bringing another slow player like Iginla, would only exacerbate the issue.

That is all very reasonable. I don't think Iginla is a superstar anymore, just better than Havlat.

Are you in favor of the half-a$$ed rebuild or do you think they should have done something else in UFA?

 

[stator]

Where do you think the Sharks will be in 3 years?

Either Platner trying to sell the team, or has just sold it to new owners.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That is all very reasonable. I don't think Iginla is a superstar anymore, just better than Havlat.

Are you in favor of the half-a$$ed rebuild or do you think they should have done something else in UFA?

I'd be willing to bet that Easy is probably not in favor of either.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Either Platner trying to sell the team, or has just sold it to new owners.

Nah, in three years the team will be one season away from being out of their lease and plans will have been made to move the team to Seattle.

 

[SJeasy]

That is all very reasonable. I don't think Iginla is a superstar anymore, just better than Havlat.

Are you in favor of the half-a$$ed rebuild or do you think they should have done something else in UFA?

The core problem for a reasonably set lineup was that 2nd left d spot. It had a very specific solution. A mobile puckmover. Only one or two slow dmen and they should only be used in the bottom pair. Secondarily, Boyle should have been replaced before the season.

They have two ongoing secondary problems, they need at least one more franchise player. It will never work with a team formulated as JT and everybody else. It could be a goalie, a dman (Boyle was never it) or a forward. The second problem is that they have discounted speed for too long. Couture, Hertl and Pavelski are all very good players, but by neglecting speed in drafting they are neglecting a key ingredient for success. Burns helped, Vlasic helped, Nieto helped, Braun helped. But, they need more. You can have a slow, elite puck controller like JT. You can have a slow elite sniper like Hertl, Pavelski or Couture. But the other spots need speed. And you certainly don't line up 1 and 2 (JT and Couture) at the center position as two relatively slow guys. One of them needs to be fast for defensive purposes.

 

[Jacques Oeuf]

The core problem for a reasonably set lineup was that 2nd left d spot. It had a very specific solution. A mobile puckmover. Only one or two slow dmen and they should only be used in the bottom pair. Secondarily, Boyle should have been replaced before the season.

They have two ongoing secondary problems, they need at least one more franchise player. It will never work with a team formulated as JT and everybody else. It could be a goalie, a dman (Boyle was never it) or a forward. The second problem is that they have discounted speed for too long. Couture, Hertl and Pavelski are all very good players, but by neglecting speed in drafting they are neglecting a key ingredient for success. Burns helped, Vlasic helped, Nieto helped, Braun helped. But, they need more. You can have a slow, elite puck controller like JT. You can have a slow elite sniper like Hertl, Pavelski or Couture. But the other spots need speed. And you certainly don't line up 1 and 2 (JT and Couture) at the center position as two relatively slow guys. One of them needs to be fast for defensive purposes.

Solution = offer sheet PK Subban!!!!

 

[Le Rosbeef]

With Scott, Haley and Brown, is there a chance that in 3 years we'll be at UFC 236?