Where do Crosby and Ovechkins first 5 years rank?

[Zine]

Eruziones goal wasn't even in the final game, the US still had to win another game to win the Olympics.

As a Russian supporter it sucks to admit, but Eruzione's goal is the biggest hockey goal of all time.
In terms of worldwide social, political, cultural and historical influence, no other goal can match it. It transcends the sport far more than Henderson or Crosby's does.

Go to a non-hockey country and ask about the Summit Series/Paul Henderson, or about Crosby or Lemieux goals....they will stare at you with a blank look. Ask about Eruzione or 'Miracle on Ice' at least a few will have a vague concept of what it is.
Even in Russia's younger hockey community, Miracle is far more understood than the Summit Series.

 

[JackSlater]

Eruzione's goal was easily the biggest. I love the golden goal but it doesn't compare even with your argument JackSlater. Doesn't matter if people don't remember who scored the winning goal for the Americans. If you were to explain the two goals side by side and have people pick the more important goal, more people would certainly pick Eruzione's goal, even in Canada.

I think what you're getting at is that the 1980 victory was bigger, and I would agree with that. If many people don't remember the goal anymore, as you suggest, then I would argue that demonstrates that it lacks the significance of the Crosby goal, which I am quite confident will still be very recognizable to Canadians 30 years from now. In any event the political rivalry between USA and USSR made that goal one of the most important in hockey history.

As a Russian supporter it sucks to admit, but Eruzione's goal is the biggest hockey goal of all time.
In terms of worldwide social, political, cultural and historical influence, no other goal can match it. It transcends the sport far more than Henderson or Crosby's does.

Go to a non-hockey country and ask about the Summit Series/Paul Henderson, or about Crosby or Lemieux goals....they will stare at you with a blank look. Ask about Eruzione or 'Miracle on Ice' at least a few will have a vague concept of what it is.
Even in Russia's younger hockey community, Miracle is far more understood than the Summit Series.

I agree with almost every part of that. I'm trying to assess the goals, not the whole victory. The 1980 victory is clearly bigger than the 2010 victory, I just don't think the goal itself is as big. As far as people through the world recognizing one and not the other, the size of the American media would also have a large role in that. I'm willing to admit that the Eruzione goal is certainly near the level of the Crosby goal, and I can understand some people putting it above it. I still maintain quite comfortably that the implication that there have been quite a few bigger goals than Crosby's since 1972, ie Lidstrom's in 2006, is very incorrect.

 

[Zine]

I think what you're getting at is that the 1980 victory was bigger, and I would agree with that. If many people don't remember the goal anymore, as you suggest, then I would argue that demonstrates that it lacks the significance of the Crosby goal, which I am quite confident will still be very recognizable to Canadians 30 years from now. In any event the political rivalry between USA and USSR made that goal one of the most important in hockey history.

That's the difference right there.........the popularity or significance of Crosby's goal is limited to your own country. Unlike Eruzione's goal, 30 years from now nobody outside Canada (or dedicated hockey fans) will even remember or care about the game much less who scored in overtime.

Don't also forget Eruzione's goal was one of the pinnacles in a worldwide gazillion dollar box office movie......so the importance and popularity of that goal is being perpetuated on a much grander scale than Henderson's, or Crosby's ever will.

 

[JackSlater]

That's the difference right there.........the popularity or significance of Crosby's goal is limited to your own country. Unlike Eruzione's goal, 30 years from now nobody outside Canada (or dedicated hockey fans) will even remember or care about the game much less who scored in overtime.

Don't also forget Eruzione's goal was one of the pinnacles in a worldwide gazillion dollar box office movie......so the importance and popularity of that goal is being perpetuated on a much grander scale than Henderson's, or Crosby's ever will.

Once again I think that you're focusing on the victory and not the goal. The Eruzione goal was not the pinnacle of the movie, the victory was. The biggest moment in the movie wasn't that goal, it was Al Michaels' call at the end.

As far as the goal being relevant internationally, with that movie being a major example, that has more to do with the American media and their movie industry in particular. If we went just by that metric, then pretty much all American accomplishments in recent decades would be greater than the accomplishments of all other nations combined. If we went by movies, American accomplishments in WW2 would have to be bigger than those of Britain and USSR combined. Clearly that line of reasoning is misleading.

 

[goalsversusthreshold*]

Once again I think that you're focusing on the victory and not the goal. The Eruzione goal was not the pinnacle of the movie, the victory was. The biggest moment in the movie wasn't that goal, it was Al Michaels' call at the end.

As far as the goal being relevant internationally, with that movie being a major example, that has more to do with the American media and their movie industry in particular. If we went just by that metric, then pretty much all American accomplishments in recent decades would be greater than the accomplishments of all other nations combined. If we went by movies, American accomplishments in WW2 would have to be bigger than those of Britain and USSR combined. Clearly that line of reasoning is misleading.

It's not just because of the American media though. There was political and social meaning in it, and drama added from the fact that they were an amateur team and huge underdogs. Even if you adjust for the fact that America, being what it is, has more geopolitical significance, there just isn't that deeper meaning in Crosby's goal even in relation to Canada. Canada won in 2002, we'll likely win one of the next few Olympics. Something more comparable would be a game between a "team English Canada" and a "team French Canada". Unfortunately the Leafs/Habs games of yesteryear don't have the same meaning because they played in the finals so often.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

By following media.

Show me how you've managed to translate your media followings into a quantifiable result, please.

 

[Ilya Kovalchoke*]

That's the difference right there.........the popularity or significance of Crosby's goal is limited to your own country. Unlike Eruzione's goal, 30 years from now nobody outside Canada (or dedicated hockey fans) will even remember or care about the game much less who scored in overtime.

Don't also forget Eruzione's goal was one of the pinnacles in a worldwide gazillion dollar box office movie......so the importance and popularity of that goal is being perpetuated on a much grander scale than Henderson's, or Crosby's ever will.

Most people remember the US victory not the goal or who scored it. If you asked people around the world who scored the goal, or even to describe the goal they probably couldn't. I think anyone who watched the gold medal game will remember Crosbys goal. Like Jack said "Do you believe in miracled is the defining moment of that game not the goal. Sids goal is the memorable moment from the game.

 

[Zine]

Most people remember the US victory not the goal or who scored it. If you asked people around the world who scored the goal, or even to describe the goal they probably couldn't. I think anyone who watched the gold medal game will remember Crosbys goal. Like Jack said "Do you believe in miracled is the defining moment of that game not the goal. Sids goal is the memorable moment from the game.

The difference is that Miracle on Ice is a larger phenomenon than Canada's 2010 is and ever will be........and by that reason alone, Eruzione's goal is more well known than Crosby's or even Henderson's.

Like I already stated, nobody outside of Canada and hardcore fans care about Canada's 2010 victory. No disrespect, but the world just doesn't give a toss about Canadian hockey. Same reason why nobody cares about Sweden hockey or it's 2006 victory. How are people going to remember Crosby's goal when they don't care nor have any personal connection to it?

However, Miracle is a big enough global phenomenon (political implication of the times and current American media exposure) that it will not be forgotten as easily....and Eruzione's goal is part of that phenomenon.

 

[jkrx]

Most people remember the US victory not the goal or who scored it. If you asked people around the world who scored the goal, or even to describe the goal they probably couldn't. I think anyone who watched the gold medal game will remember Crosbys goal. Like Jack said "Do you believe in miracled is the defining moment of that game not the goal. Sids goal is the memorable moment from the game.

Were you even born when Eruzione scored the goal? I saw Handersons goal live, I saw Crosbys goal live (though to my regrets I wasnt there physically) and I saw Eruziones goal live. Eruziones goal crushes Crosbys by a wide margin.

I can tell you that 30 years from now people would have forgotten all about Crosbys goal. Though it might come up in some very deep conversations about Crosby himself and his place in the rankings. People might even have forgotten that Eruzione scored the goal in the miracle game but believe me they wont forget the goal itself.

Crosbys goal were important for Canada and for canadians and trust me I know what it means to Canada but it werent close to the absolute shock the world was in when Eruzione scored.

 

[JackSlater]

It's not just because of the American media though. There was political and social meaning in it, and drama added from the fact that they were an amateur team and huge underdogs. Even if you adjust for the fact that America, being what it is, has more geopolitical significance, there just isn't that deeper meaning in Crosby's goal even in relation to Canada. Canada won in 2002, we'll likely win one of the next few Olympics. Something more comparable would be a game between a "team English Canada" and a "team French Canada". Unfortunately the Leafs/Habs games of yesteryear don't have the same meaning because they played in the finals so often.

Everything you said relates to the actual victory, not the goals themselves. I think that it ultimately comes down to this. In the context of the game in which they were scored, Crosby's goal is obviously bigger. In the context of the tournament in which they were scored, Crosby's goal is bigger. In the context of historical or international significance, the 1980 victory is bigger than the 2006 victory. If you believe that the gap in the latter is more significant that the gaps in the other two comparisons, then I suppose you would have to say that Eruzione's goal is bigger. Otherwise it's Crosby.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Crosby's goal only mattered in Canada. There were no secondary or tertiary effects. He scored the goal, Canada rejoiced, and the Earth kept on rotating. Within days, the NHL and Euro league seasons trumped it in terms of coverage and importance.


Eruzione's goal mattered to the whole world, including Canada. The Gold Medal game was a foregone conclusion. The goal had a tremendous impact on Russian hockey, American hockey, Olympic hockey, morale in three continents etc.

 

[daver]

Crosby's goal only mattered in Canada. There were no secondary or tertiary effects. He scored the goal, Canada rejoiced, and the Earth kept on rotating. Within days, the NHL and Euro league seasons trumped it in terms of coverage and importance.


Eruzione's goal mattered to the whole world, including Canada. The Gold Medal game was a foregone conclusion. The goal had a tremendous impact on Russian hockey, American hockey, Olympic hockey, morale in three continents etc.

No argument about the relative impact of each game but the final seconds of the Miracle gane, Al Miachael's call and pictures of them celebrating are the iconic iamges and memories of that game, not the Urozione? goal.