When will Rich Tocchet be fired (or otherwise cease being our head coach)?

[rt]

To me this is on the players. You can't get blood from a stone.

Which players? Would that be the core of Domi, Strome, Duclair or the Galchenyuk and Panik group? Or the Schmaltz and Kessel crew? Rick Tocchet has had the luxury or replacing his top six a few times. Also his associate staff, too. Must be nice. People seem to bend over for a guy who’s career points per 82gp as a head coach is 80. Which is usually good for a top 10 pick most years.

 

[rt]

He’s coached over 350 games as an NHL head coach. He’s won fewer than 41% of them. He’s never once had a winning season. Never. Not once.

 

[Jakey53]

Perhaps 2-3 years is underselling it. I just feel like he tends to lose the room after a few seasons.

Facts say other wise. Regardless, five year is a pretty good run for any coach. I think he does rub some players the wrong way, but I do believe most like playing for him.

 

[Fyreman]

"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." Casey Stengle

 

[Bonsai Tree]

The truth is that while we may not be the most skilled team, there are many times when the most skilled team does not necessarily win, due to an effective game plan in reducing that skill difference. Coaches have an effect on creating that game plan and giving the team an edge in that sense.

Funny. Tippet was brilliant with a low budget team. A lot of the same guys who wanted to railroad Tippet want to railroad Tocchet. Perhaps they need a scapegoat.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

To me it’s not just that Craig defends Tocchet, it’s also the dismissiveness towards anyone who wants to shift some blame to tocchet. No one has any substantive arguments for criticizing tocchet’s system? Really? Have you read the comments on your articles?

Unfortunately, that seems to be Craig's modus operandi when it comes to protecting his access - it's never the coaches that are the problem, because if he says they are, they won't talk to him anymore. There is a lot of evidence for criticizing Tocchet's coaching performance, but it's easier to throw players under the bus than team administration.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I see Tocchet as a placeholder. I want him for another year or two. As the talent level improves I want a more talented coach. However I have no problem with sacking Tocchet if we can get a proven elite coach (good luck w that until we have more talent for him). I’d upgrade in a country second to Galant or Torts. I wouldn’t yet for a 1st time coach, wanting to give him a better chance for success.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Funny. Tippet was brilliant with a low budget team. A lot of the same guys who wanted to railroad Tippet want to railroad Tocchet. Perhaps they need a scapegoat.

For me, Tippett and Tocchet are two completely different coaches. Tippett had an expiration date with us. Tocchet came to us already somewhat spoiled.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I didn't like the Tocchet hiring. I wanted Keefe or some other AHL guy.

He stunk when he got here, but he did win me over when he nearly got our injury replacement squad into the playoffs. That was impressive.

Issues started again when we couldn't improve upon that injury replacement squads success. Tocchets a one trick trick pony who can't make adjustments and isn't suited to create strategies in the O zone. Specifically with small, speedy skilled players like we have.

It's amazing watching a team like TB consistently move around on the PP while our guys are stagnant in the same spots they've been in for years.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Another thing I don't like about Tocchet is that he gaslights. "I pulled Darcy to spark the team." "We lost in LA because the guys didn't want to sacrifice the body." He's always reframing things to deflect blame off himself or to make himself look better. It really bugs me.

 

[rt]

Another thing I don't like about Tocchet is that he gaslights. "I pulled Darcy to spark the team." "We lost in LA because the guys didn't want to sacrifice the body." He's always reframing things to deflect blame off himself or to make himself look better. It really bugs me.

10,000 likes.

 

[Canis Latrans]

I can understand the argument that Tocchet is getting out more than the sum of the parts of the team, but it doesn't necessarily mean that'd translate once the talent level on the team increases. I don't see a capable transition game or much in the offensive zone where your system needs to be proactive. Furthermore, the continual struggle with it lends more credence to the idea that he cannot adapt. They may do well on defense, but that's likely easier for less talented players to play as it can be much more reactive. I don't think the defense is statistically as strong, but I credit that lapse to a dried up offense and transition game forcing the defense to play more.

Another trend that I haven't seen an explanation for is how the team can come out this season and last with a solid start in the upper echelons of the league in terms of offensive chances generated, and then tumbles all the way down to the bottom where they now reside, with the lowest shots generated, for example. My conclusion from this is the team comes into the season with their particular tactics that bring them success, but then the league figures them out and the team never adapts again. Other teams are demonstrating ability to adapt to the game plan, but it doesn't change or change enough to counter that.

It's signs like these that makes me feel like Tocchet's getting more out of the team as is would not translate once the team personnel improve. There would be natural improvement because players can carry the play to a degree, but it likely wouldn't be enough to overcome other top contenders. In evaluating a head coach, I'm looking at ability to create a scheme and alter it as necessary to overcome opponents. Motivation plays a role in coaching, but I'd just rather have a tactical genius making the top calls than some one who can improve the morale of the room. We can get the morale booster role out of an assistant if the head coach doesn't have that kind of interpersonal skill.

 

[XX]

I can understand the argument that Tocchet is getting out more than the sum of the parts of the team, but it doesn't necessarily mean that'd translate once the talent level on the team increases.

We already saw this post Hall trade. With a healthy Schmaltz, Hall, and Kessel the team played their worst hockey of the season, Avs series not included.

 

[Canis Latrans]

We already saw this post Hall trade. With a healthy Schmaltz, Hall, and Kessel the team played their worst hockey of the season, Avs series not included.

True. Also, this team's ability to transition the puck into the offensive zone has always been an issue, yet when the team has acquired those three, all top tier at it from the stats I've seen, they continue to struggle with it even when you can spread it across three lines. More damning evidence of it not being personnel, but coaching.

 

[XX]

True. Also, this team's ability to transition the puck into the offensive zone has always been an issue, yet when the team has acquired those three, all top tier at it from the stats I've seen, they continue to struggle with it even when you can spread it across three lines. More damning evidence of it not being personnel, but coaching.

I've talked about it before, but Tocchet's 'system' completely eliminates the strengths of more talented players because they're forbidden from using the center of the ice. Guys like Schmaltz and Hall you want skating at the opposition with the puck in attack so they can either create space or draw a penalty. Instead, Tocchet asks them to stay along the boards and in a phone booth.

Tocchet is essentially taking a team that is built more similarly to Carolina or Florida and cramming them into a Dallas/Columbus sized hole, with predictably bad results. Low event, boring, ugly defensive hockey that is easily countered. The Coyotes are, by choice and design, underwater 5v5. They concede lots of chances. It is the completely wrong approach and it's a really boring product to boot.

The team should press and attack, not try to form the equivalent of a shield wall. A good coach would recognize he doesn't have the horses for the latter. Guys like Keller, Garland, Schmaltz etc... cannot absorb endless waves of attacks

The short leash line works because they break this paradigm. Through raw skill, they are able to complete short passes and use their creativity to generate chances. Crouse - Larsson - Fischer is also a good line, but because they fit with what Tocchet tries to do aka create turnovers in the neutral zone. Everyone else is sort of lost, and combos that aren't these two are usually bad.

Tocchet also actively tells guys to stay back, to turtle, to not press. He preaches 'game management' and to 'take what the game is giving you'. This often results in his teams getting run over because they are not ready, or think they are but flub the coverage. When they turtle, they often blow the game.

He has all the flaws of Tippett with none of the strengths.

 

[cobra427]

I read the Morgan article, he makes good points in defending RT. There is no question we don't have the talent to be a cup contender right now, nobody disputes that. What Morgan didn't talk about was the teams inconsistency from game to game, players leaving and thriving elsewhere or coming to Az and not doing as well. Morgan talks about Raanta/Kuemper being out but Hill has an equal save percentage. Outside of hot goal tending in stretches the last few years, it doesn't seem like RT gets the most out of his players. I always felt like TIP got the most out of his players and we certainly have way more talent now than Tip had for a few years.

We have the worst shot differential in the NHL right now, are we the worst team talent wise? I don't think so. It seems like we have been really lucky with many come from behind wins against the ducks as an example or last second goals this year.

Bottom line is that we never over achieve as a team for any length of time, we do under achieve though for the talent we do have. RT has had 4 years to show us who he is and what he is capable of, no reason to keep him around past this year.

And tonights game was a great example, outshot 18-1 at one point, down 5-0? This team is so unprepared sometimes, that is coaching, reminded me of the Colorado debacle a few weeks ago.

 

[Summer Rose]

And tonights game was a great example, outshot 18-1 at one point, down 5-0? This team is so unprepared sometimes, that is coaching, reminded me of the Colorado debacle a few weeks ago.

At least he finally tried the tactic of taking a timeout after going down 2-0 so quickly. We've criticized him heavily for not doing so before. It didn't work, but at least he tried. That's at least a little progress, no?

 

[cobra427]

Facts say other wise. Regardless, five year is a pretty good run for any coach. I think he does rub some players the wrong way, but I do believe most like playing for him.

I would hire Torts in a heart beat. His teams and players play hard, every shift or they get benched. OEL/Kessel could be healthy scratched at time if Torts were our coach, he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Torts gets the best out of his players and his teams, they upset TB a few years ago as an example.

Torts would be my number one coach if he is available, this team needs old school tactics, more whipping and less hugs.

 

[XX]

At least he finally tried the tactic of taking a timeout after going down 2-0 so quickly. We've criticized him heavily for not doing so before. It didn't work, but at least he tried. That's at least a little progress, no?

Probably not a great sign for Rick that there was absolutely zero response to his 'coaching' in that moment.

 

[Summer Rose]

Probably not a great sign for Rick that there was absolutely zero response to his 'coaching' in that moment.

Yeah, probably too little, too late at that point.

 

[Grimes]

Another thing I don't like about Tocchet is that he gaslights. "I pulled Darcy to spark the team." "We lost in LA because the guys didn't want to sacrifice the body." He's always reframing things to deflect blame off himself or to make himself look better. It really bugs me.

I've always wondered why athletes who were great at their sport weren't coaches or great coaches. This kinda sums it up. Their competitors. They don't want to lose. They also don't want to take blame. They want to be the best at their job and if the supporting cast didn't do as well as they would have done then throw them all under the boss because you "would have done better".

 

[YotesFan47]

F*** RT. This presser is brutal. He's a fool. I can't wait for him to be gone.

 

[Jakey53]

I see Tocchet as a placeholder. I want him for another year or two. As the talent level improves I want a more talented coach. However I have no problem with sacking Tocchet if we can get a proven elite coach (good luck w that until we have more talent for him). I’d upgrade in a country second to Galant or Torts. I wouldn’t yet for a 1st time coach, wanting to give him a better chance for success.

I for one, do not want RT anywhere near this team going forward, and there is no way RT would sign for a year or two anyway as he would want a much longer deal. I would like to see an experienced proven coach with this team going forward, but that probably won't happen. BA has to hire someone that he knows and has the same ideas and ways on how to build a team. We have stability in the organization all the way down excluding coaching.

 

[Jakey53]

I would hire Torts in a heart beat. His teams and players play hard, every shift or they get benched. OEL/Kessel could be healthy scratched at time if Torts were our coach, he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Torts gets the best out of his players and his teams, they upset TB a few years ago as an example.

Torts would be my number one coach if he is available, this team needs old school tactics, more whipping and less hugs.

I was not a fan of JT earlier in his career, but he has tamed down a "little bit", and now I love the way he coaches. He is a winner, and he would fit this team like a glove. Can you imagine how he would eat up the local media with their dumb questions. I don't think OEL or Kessel would be scratched, rather their play would be better, but you are right, he doesn't care what player sits.

 

[Mosby]

I’d pay good money to watch John Tortorella light up Todd Walsh.