Line Combos: when healthy

[drw02]

I don't think Babcock is going to put Pav and Z back together, he's knows they are a better, more balanced team with them apart. I also do not believe Weiss will be handed a starting spot when he's "healthy". The Wings will be fighting for a playoff spot for the rest of the season and they simply won't be able to afford to work a guy so far behind like Weiss back into the lineup. Weiss doesn't strike me as a guy Babcock is very fond of anyway (i.e plays soft, not great defensively). Not to mention activating him off IR will force the Wings to make a bunch of roster/cap decisions they don't want to make. Unless he just absolutely tears it up in practice I don't see him getting back in the lineup short of an injury to someone else.

Franzen-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Abdelkader-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Helm-Glendening
Cleary
Andersson

Eaves-waived
Bert-waived/"LTIR"/retire
Weiss-LTIR

Kronwall-Ericsson
Quincey-Dekeyser
Lashoff-Smith
Kindl


PP1
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen

Alfredsson-Kronwall


PP2
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar

Dekeyser-Nyquist

 

[NewHopeForEveryone]

I"ve seen a lot of lineups and finally i figured that template everyone"s using

xxx - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx
Tatar - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx

he has his ass glued to that 3rd line spot, literally

problem is that whoever you give him on line, that line will be treat to watch but i drooled on Tatar - Datsyuk - Jurco line

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Datsyuk - Z - Franzen
Nyquist - Weiss - Alfie
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader/Eaves

That's a god damn lineup, right there (assuming Weiss doesn't screw it up).

 

[Vladdy84]

I"ve seen a lot of lineups and finally i figured that template everyone"s using

xxx - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx
Tatar - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx

he has his ass glued to that 3rd line spot, literally

problem is that whoever you give him on line, that line will be treat to watch but i drooled on Tatar - Datsyuk - Jurco line

I've given up on it. Babcock is hell-bent on keeping Tatar on that 3rd line. Don't really care now that he's playing with good players. Anyone ever notice that Tatar's line is always the last one out to start a game and often other periods?

 

[DanZ]

If Weiss comes back from surgery and he plays like we all know he can, we will be pretty damn deep at center. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson, Glendening...

How many teams have a 4th line center as good as Helm? Although, when completely healthy, Babcock might choose to put Datsyuk and Zetterberg together and put Weiss as the 2C leaving Helm for the 3C and Sheahan or Andersson for the 4C, in order to give Helm a more prominent role. I can see both options working well.

 

[Heaton]

I've given up on it. Babcock is hell-bent on keeping Tatar on that 3rd line. Don't really care now that he's playing with good players. Anyone ever notice that Tatar's line is always the last one out to start a game and often other periods?

Tatar is one of the few players (like Hudler was) who could create offense on the lower lines. Why would we want to change that? I understand the want for more IT, but I'd rather keep him on the 3rd line for balance. I mean, if we move Tatar up, who goes down?

 

[InjuredChoker]

CapGeek ‏@capgeek 1 min
1/3 Lots of questions about #RedWings cap space — can they keep their young players in Detroit when healthy?

CapGeek ‏@capgeek 2 min
2/3 Answer: not without moves. Their healthy roster with veterans is ~$260K over the cap:

CapGeek ‏@capgeek 1 min
3/3 Alternatively, keeping kids such as Glendening, Sheahan and Jurco and demoting vets would put them even further out of cap compliance.

CapGeek ‏@capgeek 52 s
Got a question about your team's cap situation? Tweet us in the next 20 minutes.

 

[Henkka]

who we?

Babcock and co. It was Zeta + Dats + pylon and Mule - Weiss - Alfie as Top2 lines.

We have never really had a situation, where Mule, Weiss and Alfie would have been healthy at same time.

 

[Vladdy84]

Tatar is one of the few players (like Hudler was) who could create offense on the lower lines. Why would we want to change that? I understand the want for more IT, but I'd rather keep him on the 3rd line for balance. I mean, if we move Tatar up, who goes down?

Don't have any issue with it now that he's playing with better players. When Tats was saddled with Clears, Miller, Gator, Joker etc... That was a problem. Now he just needs more TOI.

 

[hot dog]

For now, why break up what's working?

Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist (this line has been a dynamic first line)
Weiss - Datsyuk - Alfredsson (Alfie and Datsyuk have worked together - Alfie is one of the few with the hockey IQ to play with Datsyuk, we're paying Weiss big so he might as well get a shot at a scoring line)
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco (has provided great secondary scoring and all are plus players)
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader (possibly the best fourth line in the league)

That's a stellar forward lineup, if you ask me. But with our depth down the middle (Andersson, Glendening, Sheahan, Helm, Weiss, Franzen), I think we can really afford to play Zetterberg and Datsyuk together. We would roll out two more lines that could score, even if they weren't prototypical second lines.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen/Sheahan/Nyquist
Nyquist/Franzen - Weiss/Franzen - Alfredsson
Tatar - Helm/Sheahan - Jurco
Miller - Helm/Sheahan/Andersson - Abdelkader

Kind of hard to figure out where Weiss really slots into the lineup. Same with Andersson. Realistically we almost certainly are sending Jurco back down, which is fine, but not my ideal move (sorry, I've still got a man crush there). Sheahan might be able to stay up, but it'll be tough.

 

[Flowah]

For now, why break up what's working?

Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist (this line has been a dynamic first line)
Weiss - Datsyuk - Alfredsson (Alfie and Datsyuk have worked together - Alfie is one of the few with the hockey IQ to play with Datsyuk, we're paying Weiss big so he might as well get a shot at a scoring line)
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco (has provided great secondary scoring and all are plus players)
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader (possibly the best fourth line in the league)

That's a stellar forward lineup, if you ask me. But with our depth down the middle (Andersson, Glendening, Sheahan, Helm, Weiss, Franzen), I think we can really afford to play Zetterberg and Datsyuk together. We would roll out two more lines that could score, even if they weren't prototypical second lines.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen/Sheahan/Nyquist
Nyquist/Franzen - Weiss/Franzen - Alfredsson
Tatar - Helm/Sheahan - Jurco
Miller - Helm/Sheahan/Andersson - Abdelkader

Kind of hard to figure out where Weiss really slots into the lineup. Same with Andersson. Realistically we almost certainly are sending Jurco back down, which is fine, but not my ideal move (sorry, I've still got a man crush there). Sheahan might be able to stay up, but it'll be tough.

An embarrassment of riches if you ask me. Look at all the NHL caliber players we have. And not just fringe 4th liners, but kids who look like they could play in the top6.

Now we just need the same on the back end and we'll be making cup runs for years.

 

[hot dog]

An embarrassment of riches if you ask me. Look at all the NHL caliber players we have. And not just fringe 4th liners, but kids who look like they could play in the top6.

Now we just need the same on the back end and we'll be making cup runs for years.

If Mantha and Sproul both can translate their junior games to the pro level... we may not need a top flight Datsyuk/Zetterberg type center to compete for Cups. Jurco, Mantha, Tatar, and Nyquist should be a deadly set of wingers for the future, and that's ignoring some of the veterans who will still be around for the next few years.

 

[NewHopeForEveryone]

Tatar is one of the few players (like Hudler was) who could create offense on the lower lines. Why would we want to change that? I understand the want for more IT, but I'd rather keep him on the 3rd line for balance. I mean, if we move Tatar up, who goes down?

Unleash the beast, put him higher in lineup (if not just him then whole his line, who wouldnt love Tats - Sheahan - Jurco as 2nd line) and give him more IT. You want more balance. Im OK with that, but balance isnt giving Tats lowest time amongst whole team and still expect high production from him. You compared him to Hudler, but Hudler is now in Calgary and if this is way how they will deal with Tatar, well, then level of sanity in DRW management is damn too low

 

[InjuredChoker]

Babcock and co. It was Zeta + Dats + pylon and Mule - Weiss - Alfie as Top2 lines.

We have never really had a situation, where Mule, Weiss and Alfie would have been healthy at same time.

that i remember but not the griffin line or helm centering fourth line. well they might be interchangeable but he still refers to him as the best 3rd line C in the league.

i don't recall him trying that bottom 6. maybe for a skate or two as helm was working to get back on shape. i'd prefer to limit andy's and miller's limits as they aren't that strong ES players and play heavy minutes on pk. rather have tatar and nyquist out there more than sheahan and miller.

 

[odin1981]

I 'd go with :
nyquist-Z-franzen
Weiss-Pavel-Alfie
Jurco-sheahan-tatar
abby-helm-glendening

With miller, andersson as 13th 14th forwards. Gets you speed on 3/4 lines (all but dats but he has proven he can slo mo his line and get results). 7-9 peopel each day capable of taking draws and 5 potential penalty killing pairs of: sheahan-glendening, Franzen-weiss, Z or dats and nyquist, helm-abby, 3 SCORING LINES and a kick ass energy line.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

I really don't like Weiss on the wing. Here's my go however:

Zetterberg-Weiss-Franzen
Nyquist-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Abdelkader-Helm-Tatar
Miller-Andersson/Glendening-Sheahan

At the same time, I'd love to see this:

Sheahan-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Nyquist-Helm-Tatar
Miller-Andersson-Abdelkader

Though I feel strange having Abby on line 4, even if it's just on paper.

I really think we should trade Andersson, and roll with Glendening AND Sheahan back there with Eaves and Cleary coming in as healthy scratches.

Same defense. Kyle Quincey hate is getting old. He's been playing some of his best hockey in two years.

 

[InjuredChoker]

quincey has been solid lately. he makes still some mistakes that will probably never be eliminated from his game. but he's not costing points anymore. seems like he just needed reliable partner.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

Tatar is one of the few players (like Hudler was) who could create offense on the lower lines. Why would we want to change that? I understand the want for more IT, but I'd rather keep him on the 3rd line for balance. I mean, if we move Tatar up, who goes down?

You're probably overrating Hudler's ability to create offense on the lower lines. Tatar and Hudler are so much different IMO. Hudler was afraid to shoot more times than not. He'd over-pass, which is strange, because he has a great shot. Better than Tatar's. Tatar thinks shoot first, and drives to the net. His hands are better, and he's a much better skater.

Hudler managed to fit in with Zetterberg when he changed his role in the past season (career best season). Tatar doesn't have the style to mesh with Zetterberg or Datsyuk, like I've been saying. It's been proved. Best bet is to keep Tatar on line 3, and the second unit PP for now. Tatar can create offense. He can carry the puck. Hudler cannot carry the puck. Hudler was smarter defensively though.

So you have three obvious players in your top six. For sure. A lock. You have Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, and Johan Franzen. Daniel Alfredsson, Justin Abdelkader, Gustav Nyquist, and Darren Helm can realistically see chances on any of the lines. More so Alfredsson in the top six. Riley Sheahan is still a mystery with what the plan is.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

quincey has been solid lately. he makes still some mistakes that will probably never be eliminated from his game. but he's not costing points anymore. seems like he just needed reliable partner.

Which he has in Danny DeKeyser. Then Brendan Smith the offensive prospect that we expected is given a chance with a defensive mobile defenseman in Brian Lashoff. The combinations are so perfect right now, and finally correct. Jakub Kindl is easily the odd-man out.

 

[Frk It]

You're probably overrating Hudler's ability to create offense on the lower lines. Tatar and Hudler are so much different IMO. Hudler was afraid to shoot more times than not. He'd over-pass, which is strange, because he has a great shot. Better than Tatar's. Tatar thinks shoot first, and drives to the net. His hands are better, and he's a much better skater.

Hudler managed to fit in with Zetterberg when he changed his role in the past season (career best season). Tatar doesn't have the style to mesh with Zetterberg or Datsyuk, like I've been saying. It's been proved. Best bet is to keep Tatar on line 3, and the second unit PP for now. Tatar can create offense. He can carry the puck. Hudler cannot carry the puck. Hudler was smarter defensively though.

.

Totally agree on the difference in play styles between Tatar and Hudler. Tatar is more aggressive than Hudler or Filppula ever were.

But you are underrating Hudler hard. He put up 57 pts playing on the 3rd line, which isn't easy. I don't think Heaton is overrating Hudlers ability to create offense on lower lines at all.

 

[14ari13]

Unleash the beast, put him higher in lineup (if not just him then whole his line, who wouldnt love Tats - Sheahan - Jurco as 2nd line) and give him more IT. You want more balance. Im OK with that, but balance isnt giving Tats lowest time amongst whole team and still expect high production from him. You compared him to Hudler, but Hudler is now in Calgary and if this is way how they will deal with Tatar, well, then level of sanity in DRW management is damn too low

Tatar is a speed monster compared to Hudler. Tatar can skate. Hudler was very slow and small. Ain't Babcock's player

 

[Frk It]

Tatar is one of the few players (like Hudler was) who could create offense on the lower lines. Why would we want to change that? I understand the want for more IT, but I'd rather keep him on the 3rd line for balance. I mean, if we move Tatar up, who goes down?

This is what I think also. People really try to stack the top line or two way too much with their lines usually. You need balance, and you have to look at the big picture when assembling lines.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

Totally agree on the difference in play styles between Tatar and Hudler. Tatar is more aggressive than Hudler or Filppula ever were.

But you are underrating Hudler hard. He put up 57 pts playing on the 3rd line, which isn't easy. I don't think Heaton is overrating Hudlers ability to create offense on lower lines at all.

But that was also the 2008/2009 time. Hudler saw time on all lines, though I agree, mostly line 3. Even strength, he really wasn't creating nearly as much as Tatar. Hudler is much slower, and his lines generally never had a puck carrier.

In fact in 08/09 during his 57 point season he had 28 PP points (22 assists). He had 10 more assists on the PP opposed to even strength. Also for his 17 goals, keep in mind I know he was on with Dats or Z some. His line was never as agressive as this one. He never controlled the play nearly as much as Tats.

I was more impressed with Hudler's last season as a Red Wing opposed to his 08/09 season (scored 7 points more).

 

[InjuredChoker]

Totally agree on the difference in play styles between Tatar and Hudler. Tatar is more aggressive than Hudler or Filppula ever were.

But you are underrating Hudler hard. He put up 57 pts playing on the 3rd line, which isn't easy. I don't think Heaton is overrating Hudlers ability to create offense on lower lines at all.

he was 3rd liner ES but had quite a lot of pp time which is where he got ton of points. it was less than 30 secs less pp time than dats and zett had. he had 25 points 5 on 4. so not your typical 3rd liner; though very impressive.

his most frequent linemate was flip that year.

 

[Frk It]

he was 3rd liner ES but had quite a lot of pp time which is where he got ton of points. it was less than 30 secs less pp time than dats and zett had. he had 25 points 5 on 4. so not your typical 3rd liner; though very impressive.

his most frequent linemate was flip that year.

You and D4S bring up a good point, and he definitely got a good chunk of that production from the PP.

But 57 pts when you're only playing 13:39 a night total is impressive to me any way you spin it.