When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[FriendlyGhost92]

The Wings team got pretty lucky this year on the shooting percentage front. The team is likely to take a step back next year, and they aren't particularly young.

Doesn't seem like a recipe for success to me.

Detroit rode some good fortune for sure.

Their Expected GF% was around 46%. Good for 29th in the league. Not convinced Detroit is as good as their record. They will have to fix 5v5 play if they want a shot at playoffs next season because it seems highly unlikely they finish top 2 in shooting percentage again.

Ask Seattle how finishing top 3 in shooting % worked out for them the next season.

It's funny to me when people bring this shit up because it outs them as not having actually watched games.

Detroit's shooting percentage was high because they (Likely are coached to) refused to shoot until they had the "Golden opportunity".

It was mind-numbing and frustrating as f*** to watch guys with good chances pass it away rather than shoot because they wanted to try to get it to a guy with a wide open net. THAT'S why their shooting percentage was ungodly.

 

[Hammettf2b]

The projection for this team was always a fringe playoff team for this year. They had some key injuries and epic losing streaks which caused their demise.

 

[kevsh]

What years were it again when Detroit got really bad luck and dropped a few spots in the draft lottery?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

What years were it again when Detroit got really bad luck and dropped a few spots in the draft lottery?

2017 they were 7th and dropped to 9th.
2018 5th and dropped to 6th.
2019 4th and dropped to 6th.
2020 1st and dropped to 4th.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

2017 they were 7th and dropped to 9th.
2018 5th and dropped to 6th.
2019 4th and dropped to 6th.
2020 1st and dropped to 4th.

And also 2021 they were 5th and dropped to 6th

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

And also 2021 they were 5th and dropped to 6th

True, but that wasn't the lottery, that was what $650M buys a new franchise.

 

[lucaseider]

It's funny to me when people bring this shit up because it outs them as not having actually watched games.

Detroit's shooting percentage was high because they (Likely are coached to) refused to shoot until they had the "Golden opportunity".

It was mind-numbing and frustrating as f*** to watch guys with good chances pass it away rather than shoot because they wanted to try to get it to a guy with a wide open net. THAT'S why their shooting percentage was ungodly.

I wouldn't bother with him. It says all you need to know when he says they are not particularly young, glazing over the fact the Wings have a top 3 prospect pool and the older players mostly are just placeholders for the younger players, just clueless.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

True, but that wasn't the lottery, that was what $650M buys a new franchise.

Ah yes you're right, so glad Seattle could just slide right in there and get their 1C at #2

 

[norrisnick]

The only criticism I have would be 2 more seasons for Holl/Chiarot.

SY does have a lot of work to do this off-season. The following are significant (bolded significant):
RFA: Seider, Raymond, Veleno
UFA: Perron, Kane, Sprong, Ghostibehere, Reese, Fisher, Czarnik, Reimer

It would be interesting to see SY's goes with this off-season. As Seider & Raymond come off their ELC's - big commitments are likely coming there. There is plenty of talent in the pipeline, so it'll be interesting to see how many are on the roster comes October.

How do you consider Perron and Kane significant? Like, he needs to retain them? They both require too much heavy lifting from their linemates to be significant pieces to keep around. Perron is no longer a top 6 player and Kane is on the fringes of 2nd line provided he has a line-driving center/LW to help him, which the Wings don't have and his contract would prevent us from acquiring.

What years were it again when Detroit got really bad luck and dropped a few spots in the draft lottery?

All of them.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

How do you consider Perron and Kane significant? Like, he needs to retain them? They both require too much heavy lifting from their linemates to be significant pieces to keep around. Perron is no longer a top 6 player and Kane is on the fringes of 2nd line provided he has a line-driving center/LW to help him, which the Wings don't have and his contract would prevent us from acquiring.

I meant that Kane/Perron would require a quality NHL player to potentially replace them or there will be a significant fall off. Perron still scored at a 50 points pace, and Kane was almost a PPG player in the 50 games he played. IMO 50 points is still a 2nd liner and while Kane needs to play with quality linemates - there aren't a lot of 2nd liners who are ~PPG.

SY can go dumpster diving to replace those guys, but that's typically a hit or miss proposition. Either way - the Wings are looking at a really busy off-season and next year's roster will likely have very significant turnover. It'll be interesting to see how many of those spots go to talent from the pipeline vs. veterans on short term deals.

 

[norrisnick]

I meant that Kane/Perron would require a quality NHL player to potentially replace them or there will be a significant fall off. Perron still scored at a 50 points pace, and Kane was almost a PPG player in the 50 games he played. IMO 50 points is still a 2nd liner and while Kane needs to play with quality linemates - there aren't a lot of 2nd liners who are ~PPG.

SY can go dumpster diving to replace those guys, but that's typically a hit or miss proposition. Either way - the Wings are looking at a really busy off-season and next year's roster will likely have very significant turnover. It'll be interesting to see how many of those spots go to talent from the pipeline vs. veterans on short term deals.

And both hurt the team about as much as they helped be it via penalties because they can't/won't move their feet or due to terrible defense.

I'm more than comfortable replacing them with some combination of Danielson/Kasper/Berggren. The Wings are too old of a team to be coming out of a rebuild.

Maybe keep Perron as a 3rd/4th line specialist player/coach whatever, but he sure as shit better not be anywhere near $5M. Kane I don't see any way we keep him and acquire the pieces needed to insulate him.

 

[thefutures]

People trying to save fact after all the taunting last susummer.

Only ottawa fans taunt in the summer. Summer of dorion never forget.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

And both hurt the team about as much as they helped be it via penalties because they can't/won't move their feet or due to terrible defense.

I'm more than comfortable replacing them with some combination of Danielson/Kasper/Berggren. The Wings are too old of a team to be coming out of a rebuild.

Agree with the bolded, but it'll be interesting to see if SY follows that approach. And if SY does follow that approach - how do those guys contribute in the short term? Because IMO it's more likely than not that the kids would produce significantly less offensively than DP/PK did this year. I understand it's not just about the point production, but they'd definitely need that offensive production to come from somewhere.

Will be interesting to see that goes next year.

 

[norrisnick]

Agree with the bolded, but it'll be interesting to see if SY follows that approach. And if SY does follow that approach - how do those guys contribute in the short term? Because IMO it's more likely than not that the kids would produce significantly less offensively than DP/PK did this year. I understand it's not just about the point production, but they'd definitely need that offensive production to come from somewhere.

Will be interesting to see that goes next year.

It might get shaky, but if you go to all the trouble of drafting/developing good prospects you have to allow the step of integrating into the NHL roster and the growing pains that come with it. It's why the bulk of the fanbase was pissed about the delay in getting Edvinsson into the lineup. Yes, a rookie defenseman will make mistakes. But he will get better if you let him. The roster the Wings currently has isn't good enough to slow roll the kids. Get them in, get them acclimated, and let them start accumulating experience.

It's a continuum. The Buffalo model of a team full of kids playing sink or swim and what the Wings were doing on the other end. Pretty sure the Wings still had the fewest games played by a qualifying rookie in the league this year. That's insanity for a rebuilding team.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

It might get shaky, but if you go to all the trouble of drafting/developing good prospects you have to allow the step of integrating into the NHL roster and the growing pains that come with it. It's why the bulk of the fanbase was pissed about the delay in getting Edvinsson into the lineup. Yes, a rookie defenseman will make mistakes. But he will get better if you let him. The roster the Wings currently has isn't good enough to slow roll the kids. Get them in, get them acclimated, and let them start accumulating experience.

It's a continuum. The Buffalo model of a team full of kids playing sink or swim and what the Wings were doing on the other end. Pretty sure the Wings still had the fewest games played by a qualifying rookie in the league this year. That's insanity for a rebuilding team.

NN - agree 100% with everything that you said. Personally, I think that with their core the RW's are set up pretty well to drop in a bunch of prospects, but that would be a pretty significant departure from their usual approach. They could legitimately have 30-40% roster turnover next year. If they do go with a youth movement - it's likely they take step back as the young guys get used to the NHL.

Also, it should be noted that somehow the RW's almost made the P/O's with a Lyon/Reimer combo. Husso really needs to turn it around.

 

[norrisnick]

NN - agree 100% with everything that you said. Personally, I think that with their core the RW's are set up pretty well to drop in a bunch of prospects, but that would be a pretty significant departure from their usual approach. They could legitimately have 30-40% roster turnover next year. If they do go with a youth movement - it's likely they take step back as the young guys get used to the NHL.

Also, it should be noted that somehow the RW's almost made the P/O's with a Lyon/Reimer combo. Husso really needs to turn it around.

I mean, 9 players in the final game yesterday weren't on the Wings' roster at the end of last season. It's just that all but one of them were "veterans".

EDIT and only 5 players were around at the end of the '21-'22 season.

 

[StreetHawk]

It's a continuum. The Buffalo model of a team full of kids playing sink or swim and what the Wings were doing on the other end. Pretty sure the Wings still had the fewest games played by a qualifying rookie in the league this year. That's insanity for a rebuilding team.

Yzerman arrived in 2019, so his first batch of prospects turn 23 this year. Question is when do the rest of the 2019 & 2020 draft class push for a full time roster spot?

Not realistic to expect anyone other than Edvinsson from 2021 to crack the roster next year. Kasper don't think he will. Only a 0.5 ppg in the A this past season. Should spend more time in the A.

Don't know how many kids the Wings are expecting to drop in next season?

 

[Perfect Human]

And both hurt the team about as much as they helped be it via penalties because they can't/won't move their feet or due to terrible defense.

I'm more than comfortable replacing them with some combination of Danielson/Kasper/Berggren. The Wings are too old of a team to be coming out of a rebuild.

Maybe keep Perron as a 3rd/4th line specialist player/coach whatever, but he sure as shit better not be anywhere near $5M. Kane I don't see any way we keep him and acquire the pieces needed to insulate him.

Berggren rejected a wings extension a few months ago.

 

[nturn06]

The projection for this team was always a fringe playoff team for this year. They had some key injuries and epic losing streaks which caused their demise.

TBH, a team which is so abysmal without Larkin is not a good team. And the GM who added many verterans should bear some of the blame.

 

[Perfect Human]

Yzerman arrived in 2019, so his first batch of prospects turn 23 this year. Question is when do the rest of the 2019 & 2020 draft class push for a full time roster spot?

Not realistic to expect anyone other than Edvinsson from 2021 to crack the roster next year. Kasper don't think he will. Only a 0.5 ppg in the A this past season. Should spend more time in the A.

Don't know how many kids the Wings are expecting to drop in next season?

Marco Kasper had an amazing second half. He very likely plays 20 games next year and could make the opening night roster

Through 27 games he had 2g7a.
Through the next 39 games he had 12g14a

 

[Hammettf2b]

TBH, a team which is so abysmal without Larkin is not a good team. And the GM who added many verterans should bear some of the blame.

I don't think anyone is calling them good. The veterans were added for a place holder until the prospects are ready. I'm not seeing a problem?

 

[sxvnert]

Yzer can easily spin this season as:

- Finished with the same amount of points as WC2
- Growth from prospects/youngsters
- Patience

He'll get another year before the fanbase & media really start turning up the heat.

 

[dalewood12]

They made a big step this year. Next year has to be a playoff clincher or else.

 

[19 for president]

Wings will likely take a step back offensively next year but I think they could be a much better two way team. Sprong, Ghost, Perron, and Kane are all terrible defensively. Perron has just slowed down too much to get back into the play when caught. Kane cannot engage around the boards at all and his top end speed is no longer there. Kane can still be effective but he needs to be the high man and play with guys that can make up for his lackluster defense at this point. (This is why I hated the DBC/Kane pair outside of being with Larkin). Ghost and Sprong are Ghost and Sprong... never been good at D never will be good at D.

Between Ed, Seider, and Walman I'm fairly confident that we can replace 75% of Ghost's offense and if we can snag a top 4 partner for Ed we'll be an overall better defensive team.

Berggren should be able to equal Sprong points wise but we will miss him on the 2nd PP unit. I have more faith that Berggy can develop a passible defense game to be able to play top 6 though.

Losing Kane and Perron will definitely hurt offensively. I'd like to see them get someone heavy that can a legit top 6 role. Buch would be a prime target for me. We'd still lose offensive overall but I am expecting a true breakout season for Ray next year, and could see him in the 80+ point range which would help.

Yzerman has his work cut out for him this offseason but most of his drafted guys aren't in the NHL year. Until Ed, Seider, Ray, Cossa, Kasper, Danielson, ASP fail at the NHL level it will be hard for me to say his plan has failed.

He has signed some real middling players that he is going to gave to get more out of or get off this roster so we can get the players we need to step forward with these young guys. Maata, Husso, Petry, Copp, Fabbri, Holl all need to exit stage left sooner rather than later. Maata, Fabbri, and even Husso aren't a huge deal because they have 1 year left. Copp and Holl are the damaging contracts.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

If you look at the Wings board you will see that a lot of posters are perfectly happy to come back next year with the same roster and coaching staff.

Those same posters will be happy with whoever Yzerman drafts.

Those same posters will be happy with whoever Yzerman signs.

Those same posters will be happy if the team goes into next year, gets 92 or 93 points, and misses the playoffs. They'll call it "improvement".

Yzerman is a hero in Detroit and the average Red Wings fan will eat up whatever the local media feeds them. He will never be on the hot seat and, in fact, is operating as though he has an unlimited lifespan. He kind of has to since he stepped in in 2019 to find that the organization was a steaming pile of shit with only a handful of legit NHLers and prospects.

As for me, I'm not happy with the way it's being slow played and the way Yzerman is so myopic on his plan that he ignores possibilities in front of him. This season was the perfect intersection of Yzerman trying to push a tank by signing warm bodies and shitty vets and the young guys going "f*** this noise" and dragging the team to the door of the playoffs and the team is going to end up drafting 15OA as a result. Yzerman might as well trade that pick for a legit roster player, buy out the shitty vets, bring up his young guys that have universally put the Wings in the top five of all prospect pools, and start pushing into the playoffs instead of actively handcuffing the team.