When Does the USA Surpass Canada as the #1 Hockey Country?

[VOB]

Regarding minority interest in the States, is that really the key to opening the sport upto the masses when Americans of Euro descent still are about 70 percent of the population??

I should have been more clearer. Hockey in the U.S. is not just a "white" sport but a "rich white" sport. Very very few rural white kids play the game and even fewer poor white kids (who actually represent the largest and now growing segment of poor people in the U.S.) are interested in the game, let alone play it.

Hockey is simply a terribly expensive sport to play and when you live in a country like the U.S. with so many other options, hockey is just relagated to the back ground.

Heck even in the middle of "hockey town" Detroit, the Pistons are now outdrawing the RedWings on T.V., I see more Piston jersey in the "white" suburbs than Wings jerseys and youth participation in hockey is actually declining in the area.

Imagine what will happen when the Wings are on a downslide?!

 

[Korkki]

Well, I think that the answer to the subject question is: Never.

 

[DarthSather99]

oops

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

To answer the question: Never. Hockey only excists in the States in Minnesota, Michigan, parts of Masachusettes, parts of New York, and North/South Dakota.

 

[Torch]

The U.S. is producing more quality players than ever, and with more registered players in the U.S. than in Canada for the first time ever, I think this trend will continue.

However, they still lack a quality junior program and I think that will keep them back a bit. They need a full fledged major junior league if they are going to pump out the same quantity of great players as Canada. The U.S. NDP is great quality for quality, but not for quantity, and high school just isn't the same. University is swell only for older players.

 

[wildone26*]

I agree the U.S needs a better junior program to more seriously threaten, or even topple Canada as the #1 hockey nation. Doing it through the U.S development programs, and private school programs, is not going to work.

 

[boredmale]

I would say it would take 10 years after the NHL becomes a big league sport ala NFL, NBA or MLB. Once they get alot of airtime as a major sport, kids would start playing hockey and it would 10 years to roughly have kids develop properly.

 

[VOB]

The U.S. is producing more quality players than ever, and with more registered players in the U.S. than in Canada for the first time ever, I think this trend will continue..

Why do people still believe the U.S. has more registered players than Canada? They do not, look back at my prior posts for the links to USA and Hockey Canada and you will clearly see that Canada has almost 100k more players.

 

[Daily Special]

To answer the question: Never. Hockey only excists in the States in Minnesota, Michigan, parts of Masachusettes, parts of New York, and North/South Dakota.

Why do people still believe the U.S. has more registered players than Canada? They do not, look back at my prior posts for the links to USA and Hockey Canada and you will clearly see that Canada has almost 100k more players.

TSN WJC game intermission Bob McKenzie is quoted saying "American interest in the sport has increased over time this was evidenced when the US took WJC gold in 2004 and are the favorites for this tournament in 2006. I was just talking to Blair Mcafee the Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada and he was saying 'the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada, a lot of them are coming from California, Florida, Texas and a lot of the non-traditional hockey markets, they aren't all just coming from Minnesota anymore'. With 8 first round picks in 2005 and many more to come in 2006, This isn't a cycle, where you are seeing just a good crop of Americans now, I think this is the new reality. You are going to see more and more US born players going high in the first round"

Anyone that TiVo'd the US Norway game can watch this segement at the 2nd intermission.

 

[VOB]

TSN WJC game intermission Bob McKenzie is quoted saying "American interest in the sport has increased over time this was evidenced when the US took WJC gold in 2004 and are the favorites for this tournament in 2006. I was just talking to Blair Mcafee the Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada and he was saying 'the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada, a lot of them are coming from California, Florida, Texas and a lot of the non-traditional hockey markets, they aren't all just coming from Minnesota anymore'. With 8 first round picks in 2005 and many more to come in 2006, This isn't a cycle, where you are seeing just a good crop of Americans now, I think this is the new reality. You are going to see more and more US born players going high in the first round"

Anyone that TiVo'd the US Norway game can watch this segement at the 2nd intermission.

Look it, I don't doubt thats what Bob heard but for the upteenth time, here is the links to the numbers in question.

Hockey Canada link http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.cfm/ci_id/6698/la_id/1.htm

USA Hockey link http://www.usahockey.com/membership/main_site/main/membership_stats/usah_memberstats//

 

[Daily Special]

Look it, I don't doubt thats what Bob heard but for the upteenth time, here is the links to the numbers in question.

Hockey Canada link http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.cfm/ci_id/6698/la_id/1.htm

USA Hockey link http://www.usahockey.com/membership/main_site/main/membership_stats/usah_memberstats//

Yes that US hockey stats page is dated (04-05 not 05-06) and not all inclusive. Obviously Blair Mcafee would have more current stats. I trust Blair Mcafee Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada on this one.

TSN WJC game intermission Bob McKenzie is quoted saying "American interest in the sport has increased over time this was evidenced when the US took WJC gold in 2004 and are the favorites for this tournament in 2006. I was just talking to Blair Mcafee the Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada and he was saying 'the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada, a lot of them are coming from California, Florida, Texas and a lot of the non-traditional hockey markets, they aren't all just coming from Minnesota anymore'. With 8 first round picks in 2005 and many more to come in 2006, This isn't a cycle, where you are seeing just a good crop of Americans now, I think this is the new reality. You are going to see more and more US born players going high in the first round"

Anyone that TiVo'd the US Norway game can watch this segement at the 2nd intermission.

 

[VOB]

Well I suppose we will have to wait for the release of the 05-06 stats - which both USA and Hockey Canada are currently working on and will not be released until the summer if not later.

BTW - those stats are most certainly all inclusive! That is why both respective governing bodies do not release the figures until the late summer/early fall!

I find it hard to believe that either participation in Canada has fallen by 100,000 or increased in the U.S. by 100,00.

My bet is that Canada still has more registered players.

 

[Daily Special]

Well I suppose we will have to wait for the release of the 05-06 stats - which both USA and Hockey Canada are currently working on and will not be released until the summer if not later.

BTW - those stats are most certainly all inclusive! That is why both respective governing bodies do not release the figures until the late summer/early fall!

I find it hard to believe that either participation in Canada has fallen by 100,000 or increased in the U.S. by 100,00.

My bet is that Canada still has more registered players.

My bet is both of those sources aren't as accurate as the ones at Blair Mcafee's disposal. If Blair Mcafee, the Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada says "the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada" and "You are seeing a shift in the base of draft picks coming from America now" . I'll go with him on that.

 

[VOB]

My bet is both of those sources aren't as accurate as the ones at Blair Mcafee's disposal. If Blair Mcafee, the Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada says "the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada" and "You are seeing a shift in the base of draft picks coming from America now" . I'll go with him on that.

I'll gladly take your bet!

Do you honestly believe that USA Hockey would not be trumpeting this fact if it were indeed true?!

 

[Daily Special]

I'll gladly take your bet!

Do you honestly believe that USA Hockey would not be trumpeting this fact if it were indeed true?!

I believe if it weren't true, TSN wouldn't jeopardize their credibility running it on air during the WJC, and someone in the Canadian media would have called Blair Mcafee on it by now.

 

[VOB]

I believe if it weren't true, TSN wouldn't jeopardize their credibility running it on air during the WJC, and someone in the Canadian media would have called Blair Mcafee on it by now.

Well email him yourself

here's his email link [email protected] <[email protected]>

His name is Blair Mackasey by the way!

Please feel free to post his response, I eagerly await it!

My bet still stands!

 

[Daily Special]

Well email him yourself

here's his email link [email protected] <[email protected]>

His name is Blair Mackasey by the way!

Please feel free to post his response, I eagerly await it!

My bet still stands!

I told you, I trust that TSN wouldn't jeopardize their credibility running potentially inflammatory, bogus info live during the WJC.

I trust Blair Mackasey. If he says "the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada". I believe him. You seem to be the one in denial. Maybe you should write him and see if he bothers responding.

-

 

[Fincan]

Firstly countries such as Sweden and Finland have a standard fo living as high, if not higher than Canada, so I don't see how that is relevant.

In terms of players, depends if you talk about quality or quantity as you rightly mentioned. At the moment Canada rules in both. I think Canada will always rule in terms of quantity, just the way kids grow up with the game. As far as high end talent goes the US is catching up with some of the Candadian kids. Canada will continue to produce those players, it's more a question of can the Americans sustain the improvement. Hopefully...the more skilled players the better.

One last point, the lockout went to show how invaluable the states are to the NHL. Does that have extra weighting in your mind as the #1 hockey country?? In my mind it doesn't. Throughout the lockout hockey in Canada still thrived and continued at all age groups. I think the lockout just underlined how entertaining the junior leagues are.

I was going to reply to the original poster about Canada not having a standard of living higher than that of Sweden or Finland but since you already did i will reply to you instead. All 3 countries have pretty much the same standard of living with each having their own perks and drawbacks. As more than likely the only person on these boards to have lived in all three of these countries I feel pretty qualified to make the statement.

 

[VOB]

I told you, I trust that TSN wouldn't jeopardize their credibility running potentially imflammatory, bogus info live during the WJC.

I trust Blair Mackasey. If he says "the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada". I believe him. You seem to be the one in denial. Maybe you should write him and see if he bothers responding.

-

Well once again, we will have to see once the final numbers come out- won't we?

 

[Daily Special]

Well once again, we will have to see once the final numbers come out- won't we?

You can hold your breath waiting for the already proven inaccuracy of the websites. I however was already informed when during the WJC intermission segment on TSN, Doug Mckenzie quoted Blair Mackasey, the Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada in saying "the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada".

 

[Fincan]

In Finland, Sweden and Canada much bigger % of the population has the chance to play hockey than in US, mainly because of climate & wealth distribution. On average US has higher GDP but when you see how it's divided between different social classes, you start to understand why starting hockey is so hard for many americans.

Even in Finland and Sweden though there is not nearly the same availability and passion for hockey as in Canada, though it did seem that in Finland Hockey was #1 and in Sweden it seemed tied with Football for #1. Here we have indoor rinks all over the place, and outdoor rinks in almost every community. I did not see these in nealry the same numbers in Finland and Sweden so it seems that even there where people are hockey crazy there is not the same opportunity to play. In fairness though this varies in Canada as well as people in Vancouver dont seem nearly as hockey crazy as in Edmonton (at least no the people I meet) and they dont have the same opportunity for outdoor play as they dont have as long periods good for ice as in Edmonton (and Im sure this has something to do with the level of people who become hockey crazy).

 

[VOB]

You can hold your breath waiting for the already proven inaccuracy of the websites. I however was already informed when during the WJC intermission segment on TSN, Doug Mckenzie quoted Blair Mackasey, the Director of Player Personnel for Team Canada in saying "the US now has more registered minor league players than Canada".

Pray tell, what makes you believe that those websites are inaccurate? Where is your proof?

 

[Fincan]

I scouted some players in Kansas City playing Midget Majors a week after watching a Midget AA game in Edmonton. The kids in KC were far superior.

That should tell you something. The programs and organization of USA hockey are catching up...and it would be folly to think that the gap isn't closing.

I admit to not knowing much about the US developmental system so I dont know how to compare but for those KC players what were their alternatives to Midget Majors and how available are they? Because Midget AA is actually quite far down. At age 16 and 17 most good players here would be playing AAA, Junior A, Major Junior and Junior B.

 

[Fincan]

I know there is atleast 5 rinks here in Houston and we don't even have an nhl team...

Thats cool, I wouldnt have expected that many. Still that is a long way back. There are probably that many rinks here on a West End in Edmonton, not including the 20 outdoor ones. Then there is the north, south, East, and Central parts of the city and the suburbs in a city probably 1/5 the size of Houston. opportunity IMO is such a big part of it.

 

[Daily Special]

Pray tell, what makes you believe that those websites are inaccurate? Where is your proof?

You already acknowledged the outdated statistics, which would make that site inaccurate with respect to current stats. The bigger indicator is that Bob McKenzie quoting Blair Mackasey says different on live television during the WJC's.

A better question would be "why are you choosing to go with obscure dated website statistics over a mainstream source like TSN"?