When do you realistically see the Wings challenging for a cup?

[Mijatovic]

Bit of an insult to the Flyers to put them in our league. They took a while to work out the system and have flown since. Red Wings took a while to destroy what little endurance their veterans had and are now left running around like headless chooks.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

I have a separate but related question.

If we continue to make the playoffs for another 5 years and finally win another Cup before ending the streak, will that be looked back on as part of the same 30-year dynasty? Or two completely separate eras that just happened to not have any playoff misses in between?

Not a Dynasty, but a streak of 30 years in which the Wings won x amount of cups.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Ain't that the truth. My grandfather and father were both born and passed without seeing their Cubs ever win. I'm in my 30s and I'm starting to question if I'm generation #3.

I don't think it's a big deal if there Wings never win again. It wouldn't change my life much, if at all. But it would be nice to see them put a focus on more aggressive moves to improve, as that's a more entertaining product. And after all, this is entertainment. No different than Game of Thrones or a Broadway show. We invest our time and money in the hopes of having fun watching skilled performances.

I also very much enjoy the community aspect of sports, thus my participation here.

Agreed.

If they don't win a cup, fine.

If they have a problem with going in the right direction, I'm annoyed.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Definitely not. But I also don't want Helm, Andersson, Richards, Howard etc.. back.

Actually, I see all of those players being back. And Quincey.

 

[Heaton]

Actually, I see all of those players being back. And Quincey.

Definitely, Holland loves his country club.

 

[Mickey Redmond*]

Team needs a new GM and coach.

 

[Hadoop]

I think the biggest thing is we need high-end talent, esp. on defense. We had Lidstrom for 20 years, before that we were average, and now we are average again.

Of course getting a franchise defensemen is a lot easier when you get a really high draft pick in a year with plenty of blue-chip prospects. That said it is still possible to get really lucky as well (both Duncan Keith and Shea Weber were late 2nd rounders)

We really need a franchise center as well now that Dats and Z are in the twilight of their careers.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The thing that sticks to me is Larkin hasn't played any center yet in the NHL, so it's very premature to pencil him in as a 1C. And if not him, who? Svechnikov is looking more and more like a winger, and so is AA. I don't think there's anybody who's a rock solid scoring line center right now. This team is set at wing, but that's about it.

This team doesn't have much of a defense, it doesn't have a very impressive group at center, and they have one solid goalie. That's not a very rosy situation. In 2 years, I think this team will be in some real trouble. Unless Zetterberg becomes a cyborg or something.

If datsyuk does leave. We might as well try it. I mean what's the point. We probably miss with Larkin at wing anyway. Give him experience. Time to groom

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If the right moves are made, Iv'e a feeling that 5 to 7 years is a realistic possibility for a legitimate Stanley Cup Run but not before and we definitely need a massive upgrade on D before.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

We are in the playoffs. We literally lost by a goal last night in a game it could be argued we outplayed them for about 40 minutes.

Can we give the "holy crap, we suck" and the world is ending a break for about a week?

We've had the same lackluster roster & talent for the last 3 seasons, with zero change, and having the same result year after year.

Since when did it become ok as a Wings fan to just accept making it into the playoffs? Although to be fair...Ken Holland has pretty much had that mentality since Scotty & Jim left..the mentality of "just make the playoffs, and everything is ok"....pure delusional.

 

[Retire91]

Team needs a new GM and coach.

Yeah we are probably going to find that the reverse was true. Wings should have tried getting rid of Holland first and keeping Babcock. Oh well if it took getting rid of Babcock to expose how much a problem Holland is then so be it. Besides Babcock knew that Toronto money was out there.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah we are probably going to find that the reverse was true. Wings should have tried getting rid of Holland first and keeping Babcock. Oh well if it took getting rid of Babcock to expose how much a problem Holland is then so be it. Besides Babcock knew that Toronto money was out there.

I don't really think keeping Babcock was an option we had. He wanted a new challenge, and Toronto was always going to be offer more money.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I don't really think keeping Babcock was an option we had. He wanted a new challenge, and Toronto was always going to be offer more money.

I think we needed a new voice anyway. No matter who it was

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

I think we needed a new voice anyway. No matter who it was

Which ironically enough, the "new voice" is just a younger version of the old voice, with the same lackluster results.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Which ironically enough, the "new voice" is just a younger version of the old voice, with the same lackluster results.

Pretty much as of right now. Maybe next season we play aa more without dats

 

[TheOtherOne]

Maybe Babcock was kind of ******.

I mean 1: We replaced him with a noob and did exactly the same with exactly the same team. 2: He's in DEAD ****ING LAST right now. I mean I get that he has a bad roster but other teams have bad rosters too. Look at him back there behind Columbus and Edmonton. You'd think having one of the best coaches in the world would help you climb out of dead last.

Has that guy ever won anything that wasn't handed to him?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Maybe Babcock was kind of ******.

I mean 1: We replaced him with a noob and did exactly the same with exactly the same team. 2: He's in DEAD ****ING LAST right now. I mean I get that he has a bad roster but other teams have bad rosters too. Look at him back there behind Columbus and Edmonton. You'd think having one of the best coaches in the world would help you climb out of dead last.

Has that guy ever won anything that wasn't handed to him?

Not sure if serious.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Not sure if serious.

I don't know enough about coaching to draw conclusions. I said the word "maybe" because I'm speculating.

But honestly in a salary cap and salary floor league, how does one of the best coaches in the world lead his team to dead last?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Which ironically enough, the "new voice" is just a younger version of the old voice, with the same lackluster results.

Which shouldn't have been surprising since it's Holland's MO. Replacing key parts of the team with very similar but lesser versions.

The team likely won't get a whole lot better, but they probably won't be a disaster either. Ken Holland: Staying the course on a sinking ship.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

I don't know enough about coaching to draw conclusions. I said the word "maybe" because I'm speculating.

But honestly in a salary cap and salary floor league, how does one of the best coaches in the world lead his team to dead last?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't know enough about coaching to draw conclusions. I said the word "maybe" because I'm speculating.

But honestly in a salary cap and salary floor league, how does one of the best coaches in the world lead his team to dead last?

For starters, dead last is exactly where they want to be.

They traded away significant chunks of their roster and were icing an AHL team for much of the season. They traded away their better goalie and kept Bernier as the starter in spite of how poorly he'd been playing. Then when he started playing well they still alternated him with the backup who was garbage.

The worst thing for the Leafs would've been to keep that roster intact and have Babcock coach them to a spot just out of the playoffs, which is no mans land (and quite likely where the Wings are headed).

 

[Bench]

I think the argument is if you have the "best" coach, and coaching really matters a lot, it seems impossible even with a bad roster you could finish last. The tank may be by design, but Babcock still tried to win every game. And consistently failed because players making plays matter more than strategy in the current NHL of modified defensive systems and strong goaltending. Is any NHL team doing anything that different? It's variations on a theme.

And that's why I think coaching is overrated in the NHL. It's miles behind the importance of football, for example. Patrick Kane could be coached by Mike Millbury and still score 90 points, because he's going to make the plays in any system.

Most important thing is the coach and GM are pulling the same direction. Even if it's the wrong direction at least you're all in on the strategy and team.

None of this is an endorsement of anything the Wings are doing. They don't look very good, so either Blashill has the wrong plan for his players or he's been given the wrong team. I favor the second, but he's not doing himself any favors falling back on failed Babcock game plans.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I think the argument is if you have the "best" coach, and coaching really matters a lot, it seems impossible even with a bad roster you could finish last. The tank may be by design, but Babcock still tried to win every game. And consistently failed because players making plays matter more than strategy in the current NHL of modified defensive systems and strong goaltending. Is any NHL team doing anything that different? It's variations on a theme.

And that's why I think coaching is overrated in the NHL. It's miles behind the importance of football, for example. Patrick Kane could be coached by Mike Millbury and still score 90 points, because he's going to make the plays in any system.

Most important thing is the coach and GM are pulling the same direction. Even if it's the wrong direction at least you're all in on the strategy and team.

None of this is an endorsement of anything the Wings are doing. They don't look very good, so either Blashill has the wrong plan for his players or he's been given the wrong team. I favor the second, but he's not doing himself any favors falling back on failed Babcock game plans.

Yea that all makes sense to me.

I mean I would have thought a GM would be tanking on purpose, but players and coach all try to win. In which case I don't think the "best coach in the world" has an excuse to wind up last. Unless, as you say, the coach really doesn't matter much.

If on the other hand the coach was in on the tank, then I guess that's fair enough. I just prefer to think I live in a world where coaches are trying to win.

 

[Fear]

It's not a guarantee, but I see very little reason to doubt the Larkin will be a #1 center down the line.

I'd be shocked if he developed as a winger instead of center, he literally just needs to improve faceoffs, which is super common foe 19-20 year old centers.

I think you're more concerned than the Wings are on this.

I think the problem is that Larkin's skill set is more effective for a winger. His main asset is obviously his speed. He also is more of a goal scorer than a playmaker.

Speed is much more valuable on the wing for breakouts, skating around guys, etc.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

unless Kh changes his approach to team building its going to be over a decade at the MINIMUM

some might say thats crazy but its been 8 years since we last won(not saying thats long) but it has gone by pretty fast

unless we change things up a bit dont count on any success anytime soon

we need to rid ourselves of overpaid players vs what they bring, ericsson and howard

we need to invest properly during free agency, ie not richards, quinceys, whites, bertuzzis

we need to make an impactful trade or two

we need to shed prospects and players we dont consider part of our success plan for more picks to increase odds(look it up, the more picks a team has generally the better they become and not just lottery picks)

we need to be willing to trade UP in the draft

we need to be willing to hand responsibility over to younger players