When do you realistically see the Wings challenging for a cup?

[Frk It]

I'm going under the impression that

• 
  Helm and Quincey will be back

• Datsyuk will retire

• Howard will be back

• Brad Richards will be back

I feel this team is going nowhere as long as Holland is making the decisions. So if he's the GM for the next 10 years, we won't won a cup for at least 15 years.

Pretty sure we couldn't do this if we wanted, because of the salary cap.

 

[Heaton]

Pretty sure we couldn't do this if we wanted, because of the salary cap.

Because we need to sign RFAs? Holland will find a way.

 

[Shaman464]

Pretty sure we couldn't do this if we wanted, because of the salary cap.

Or Richards takes a pay cut for more promised playing time?

 

[Bench]

Richards will be a budget player next year. He only got 3 million after being the 2nd line center on a Cup winner. $2 million tops, maybe some bonuses like this year.

 

[Frk It]

Please tell me you guys don't actually WANT Richards back next year...

 

[Pavels Dog]

Please tell me you guys don't actually WANT Richards back next year...

Did you see the play he made last year in the SCF? Hell yeah we want him back

 

[Heaton]

Please tell me you guys don't actually WANT Richards back next year...

Definitely not. But I also don't want Helm, Andersson, Richards, Howard etc.. back.

 

[Bench]

Please tell me you guys don't actually WANT Richards back next year...

Not really. Not because I think he was bad or anything, but because this team has enough vets to mentor the kids coming up. Just time to look ahead.

 

[Frk It]

Definitely not. But I also don't want Helm, Andersson, Richards, Howard etc.. back.

I think Andersson and Miller are likely back. Howard is definitely back, with how Mrazek stumbled to end the season.

Helm is a coin flip. Quincey is gone just because of how many kids are losing waivers on the blue line next season. Richards would have to take a cheap contract, not sure what he thinks he is worth at this point. I REALLY don't see the need in bringing back Brad Richards. Our top 9 is set, IMO.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The thing that sticks to me is Larkin hasn't played any center yet in the NHL, so it's very premature to pencil him in as a 1C. And if not him, who? Svechnikov is looking more and more like a winger, and so is AA. I don't think there's anybody who's a rock solid scoring line center right now. This team is set at wing, but that's about it.

This team doesn't have much of a defense, it doesn't have a very impressive group at center, and they have one solid goalie. That's not a very rosy situation. In 2 years, I think this team will be in some real trouble. Unless Zetterberg becomes a cyborg or something.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So to clarify since you didn't vote, you think the Wings are a realistic cup contender right now?

No, I don't. I think they are making some right moves to get themselves there (Larkin, Mrazek), have some very good prospects for future players (Mantha, Athanasiou, Svech), and that the rest of the league barring a couple elite teams are exactly in the same boat.

But mostly, I don't see the point about being doom and gloom and "we are so very awful" about our future when we are currently In a winnable playoff series. I get skepticism and realism, but I guess I just don't see the appeal of being a fan if I let those overpower everything about what I think about the team. If I know they're going to suck, I'll stop watching. If I don't think they're capable of becoming something, I have better things to do with my time.

I trust that the Wings know what they're doing. Even if I personally don't agree with it. They've had way too much success for way too long for me to just summarily write them off. Lastly, your implication about serious contender is more like prohibitive favorite like they were throughout the late 90s, early 2000s. You don't give them credit for being a serious contender in 2013 when they beat Anaheim and pushed Chicago to 7 games, so I don't really want to vote in this. The league, as much as it galls you to hear it and you think it's nothing but an excuse, is different now. If you're not a favorite for the Cup like Chicago, you're in the mix with the other 10-12 teams who all scoot into the playoffs in the last week and have crippling flaws on their rosters.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

The earliest would be 5 years from now. When Larkin and mrazek are in their prime and kronwall, z, Ericsson and Franken are all gone.

So 5 years at the earliest but holland will need to actually find more core players than just Larkin and potentially mantha.

 

[Classicnamesup]

No, I don't. I think they are making some right moves to get themselves there (Larkin, Mrazek), have some very good prospects for future players (Mantha, Athanasiou, Svech), and that the rest of the league barring a couple elite teams are exactly in the same boat.

There are many teams that are in a much better position, now and in the future.

But mostly, I don't see the point about being doom and gloom and "we are so very awful" about our future when we are currently In a winnable playoff series.

I want the Wings to win a cup. That is the only goal, that is the only measure of success. Getting eliminated in the first round again is not a success. I am looking for a cup and nothing less.

I get skepticism and realism, but I guess I just don't see the appeal of being a fan if I let those overpower everything about what I think about the team. If I know they're going to suck, I'll stop watching. If I don't think they're capable of becoming something, I have better things to do with my time.

I think the team is going to bottom out before they get better. I will still be watching.

I trust that the Wings know what they're doing.

I do not think the team has any sense of a direction of where they are going as the team has themselves stated. Holding onto UFAs again at the deadline, somehow escaped buying this year unlike the last few years.

They've had way too much success for way too long for me to just summarily write them off.

I find this conflicts with

The league, as much as it galls you to hear it and you think it's nothing but an excuse, is different now.

Maybe things are different now and that is why the team has failed to have any measure of success. The world has turned and left us here. Stubbornly sticking to the same slowly declining team is not getting this team closer to a cup, it is delaying the inevitable. We have seen many teams tread water on the edge of the playoffs and get nowhere.

If you're not a favorite for the Cup like Chicago, you're in the mix with the other 10-12 teams who all scoot into the playoffs in the last week and have crippling flaws on their rosters.

I think there are a good ~5 teams that are realistic cup contenders this year. The Red Wings are not one of them.

 

[Chance on Chance]

The earliest would be 5 years from now. When Larkin and mrazek are in their prime and kronwall, z, Ericsson and Franken are all gone.

So 5 years at the earliest but holland will need to actually find more core players than just Larkin and potentially mantha.

5 years from now if we draft our future #1 Dman this year. I cant see us trading for one and they rarely hit FA.

 

[Reddwit]

Since there is a "not until a change of management/direction" option, then that's the only correct answer.

The only way we're competing any time soon is either by getting higher picks, making big roster trades, or both. That is a deviation from status quo - a change in direction. There is no way to keep doing what we're doing and get better.

Larkin and Sheahan improving isn't going to make up for Datsyuk leaving and Z deteriorating. March and DD improving isnt going to offset Ericsson and Kronwall deteriorating further.

Mrazek improving isn't going to be enough. No goalie is good enough to compensate for an average-at-best defense behind a team with nothing close to a Selke-worthy forward.

I think the best case scenario that is status quo for Holland is trading Smith - the current depth D with no future here, signing a big-but-not-best forward like Okposo or Eriksson (but not Stamkos), and retaining Q or getting a moderate upgrade in a guy like Demers or Russell. That's it.

 

[Reddwit]

Please tell me you guys don't actually WANT Richards back next year...

I will ****ing riot if Richards is back next year. That means we're either not playing Larkin at center or we're keeping Pulkkinen and Jurco on the sidelines or selling them off for a pittance. Basically the worst case scenario for both guys.

If you can't make sizeable improvements to the lineup, then play the **** out of the kids and accept whatever fate that brings. Purgatory would be insanity at this point.

 

[mindfly]

The thing that sticks to me is Larkin hasn't played any center yet in the NHL, so it's very premature to pencil him in as a 1C. And if not him, who? Svechnikov is looking more and more like a winger, and so is AA. I don't think there's anybody who's a rock solid scoring line center right now. This team is set at wing, but that's about it.

This team doesn't have much of a defense, it doesn't have a very impressive group at center, and they have one solid goalie. That's not a very rosy situation. In 2 years, I think this team will be in some real trouble. Unless Zetterberg becomes a cyborg or something.

Don't make a bigger deal than it is with the Center-Winger deal, if the player is a natural center he will have no problem switching between, it's not another universe switching to the middle of the ice, its the same game just with a bit more responsibilities.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Don't make a bigger deal than it is with the Center-Winger deal, if the player is a natural center he will have no problem switching between, it's not another universe switching to the middle of the ice, its the same game just with a bit more responsibilities.

Playing NHL center is much more difficult than playing college center. Lots of guys can't make it work out. Doesn't mean they're busts. Just means they're a better fit on the wing.

I'm particular, I think Larkin has to prove he can generate offense as a scoring line center in the NHL. It's a tough job. Just ask Sheahan.

 

[mindfly]

Playing NHL center is much more difficult than playing college center. Lots of guys can't make it work out. Doesn't mean they're busts. Just means they're a better fit on the wing.

I'm particular, I think Larkin has to prove he can generate offense as a scoring line center in the NHL. It's a tough job. Just ask Sheahan.

Yeah because Sheahan is the same kind of player as Larkin and produced the same amount of pts in college as Larkin

It's pretty obvious Sheahan is a defensive type, 3C center, while Larkin is a 1C/2C scoring center

 

[Shaman464]

Yeah because Sheahan is the same kind of player as Larkin and produced the same amount of pts in college as Larkin

It's pretty obvious Sheahan is a defensive type, 3C center, while Larkin is a 1C/2C scoring center

Well, the issue that Larkin by virtue of being on the wing this last year gave him less to worry about. The point that Guru's trying to make is that when you have to match up with the Crosbys Stamkos and McDavids of the world night in and night out will he be able to keep producing? If not he might be moved to the wing permanently because Detroit can not afford to lose his offensive abilities.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

It's impossible to say because you don't know what could happen in the next 3-4 drafts. But I don't really see much of a chance to do anything within the next 5 years. Whether that turns into 10-15-20+ years depends on management. The Wings didn't win a Cup between 1955 and 1997 so it's not like the Wings are magically immune to it.

We've also seen long stretches of futility in modern times with Buffalo and Vancouver still waiting 46 years into their history, Washington still waiting after 42 years, St.Louis still waiting almost 50 years in. Of course all of those teams have had good stretches too in that time with a number of Finals appearances between them but so far it's not been enough to actually win the Cup. Aside from those snakebitten franchises we've also seen former dynasties fall off for indefinite time periods. The golden boy franchise of the NHL, the Habs, haven't won a Cup in over 20 years, the Leafs who at one point were the 2nd most successful team are now waiting almost 50 years, the Oilers have been a trainwreck since about 1991, the Isles have been a disappointment for just as long.

Point is there is absolutely no certainty that any of us will see the Wings win another Cup in our lifetimes.

 

[Bench]

Point is there is absolutely no certainty that any of us will see the Wings win another Cup in our lifetimes.

Ain't that the truth. My grandfather and father were both born and passed without seeing their Cubs ever win. I'm in my 30s and I'm starting to question if I'm generation #3.

I don't think it's a big deal if there Wings never win again. It wouldn't change my life much, if at all. But it would be nice to see them put a focus on more aggressive moves to improve, as that's a more entertaining product. And after all, this is entertainment. No different than Game of Thrones or a Broadway show. We invest our time and money in the hopes of having fun watching skilled performances.

I also very much enjoy the community aspect of sports, thus my participation here.

 

[Frk It]

The thing that sticks to me is Larkin hasn't played any center yet in the NHL, so it's very premature to pencil him in as a 1C. And if not him, who? Svechnikov is looking more and more like a winger, and so is AA. I don't think there's anybody who's a rock solid scoring line center right now. This team is set at wing, but that's about it.

This team doesn't have much of a defense, it doesn't have a very impressive group at center, and they have one solid goalie. That's not a very rosy situation. In 2 years, I think this team will be in some real trouble. Unless Zetterberg becomes a cyborg or something.

It's not a guarantee, but I see very little reason to doubt the Larkin will be a #1 center down the line.

I'd be shocked if he developed as a winger instead of center, he literally just needs to improve faceoffs, which is super common foe 19-20 year old centers.

I think you're more concerned than the Wings are on this.

 

[Mijatovic]

Can we give the "holy crap, we suck" and the world is ending a break for about a week?

We just happened to be the least **** team to fall over the line to get into the play-offs not the least of which it happened the last 2 years as well. I am not sure why you celebrate a shutdown team that aims to win via scoring 1-2 goals and hoping the other team cant match that...

 

[DATS-O-MATIC]

I think there are a good ~5 teams that are realistic cup contenders this year. The Red Wings are not one of them.

Contenders: (in that order)

tier 1

LA
Wsh
StL
Chi
-----
tier 2

SJ
Ana
Nsh
Pitt
TB (before injuries)
______

Dark Horses:
tier 3

Dal
FL
NYR
NYI (before injuries)
Min
-------
Pretenders:

tier 4

Det
Phi