When Did You Realize Crosby Was Better Than Ovechkin?

[Troubadour]

In two days, it will have been 13 years since Ovechkin scored the fabulous goal against Phoenix. If I remember correctly, that's when the majority (even on this board) declared Ovi better than Sid and that's when the undecided said "yep, the Russian kid is better".

(I thought he was gonna be better from the start, as I considered Sid just another overrated miracle from all too hopeful Canada.)

In retrospect, the goal may have won him the Calder.

Crosby struggled for chunks of 2005/2006. Both Forsberg and Alfredsson criticized him for diving and whining, he fell behind in the rookie scoring race by more than ten points with only a handful of games to go, but then --

Something happened. He got it all together and he shifted gears. I faintly remember he picked it up towards the end and scored more than before, but I had no clue by how much.

We all remember Thornton / Cheechoo for sweeping the league in points/goals in the last ten games of the RS, but in fact, it was the eighteen-year-old Sid who was the most productive player in the league and in the world in late spring 2006.

It's all right here. The new order began a season before we really noticed:



and it became all the more apparent during the 2006 WCH in Quebec he dominated along with Bergeron.

Did anyone besides Daver know Sid was the new best player in the world as early as by spring 2006?

Click to read more...

 

[Pominville Knows]

I don't go by seven games when the player's team have allready been eliminated.
As a Penguins fan i remember giving Crosby a pass in 2005-06 becouse of his age, and then getting more than my hopes up during the next season. Only problem was that Ovechkin stormed back for a while after that until Crosby sprinted past in 2010-11, until the concussion/neck thing happened. I think i did not think he had passed for real until Ovechkin had those subpar seasons which he never managed to fully get back from.

 

[Troubadour]

I don't go by seven games when the player's team have allready been eliminated.

I get this, but four of the last seven teams the Pens played were still fighting for the playoffs/better spot in the PS.

Only the last three games were played against the Islanders (twice) and the Maple Leafs who were ready for vacation. In those three games, Sid scored 5 points. That means he had scored 12 points in 4 games against teams that were in the playoffs or still fighting for the playoffs.

Basically, you did not think he was the new best player in the league

 

[daver]

In two days, it will have been 13 years since Ovechkin scored the fabulous goal against Phoenix. If I remember correctly, that's when the majority (even on this board) declared Ovi better than Sid and that's when the undecided said "yep, the Russian kid is better".

(I thought he was gonna be better from the start, as I considered Sid just another overrated miracle from all too hopeful Canada.)

In retrospect, the goal may have won him the Calder.

Crosby struggled for chunks of 2005/2006. Both Forsberg and Alfredsson criticized him for diving and whining, he fell behind in the rookie scoring race by more than ten points with only a handful of games to go, but then --

Something happened. He got it all together and he shifted gears. I faintly remember he picked it up towards the end and scored more than before, but I had no clue by how much.

We all remember Thornton / Cheechoo for sweeping the league in points/goals in the last ten games of the RS, but in fact, it was the eighteen-year-old Sid who was the most productive player in the league and in the world in late spring 2006.

It's all right here. The new order began a season before we really noticed:



and it became all the more apparent during the 2006 WCH in Quebec he dominated along with Bergeron.

Did anyone besides Daver know Sid was the new best player in the world as early as by spring 2006?

I actually don't think Crosby earned the distinction as being the clear cut best player until the 2013 season but he undoubtedly earned his place in the conversation after the 06/07 season.

As for Crosby's charge in the spring of '06, Joe T. was the best player of the 2nd half, Crosby was in a group as 2nd best.

 

[wetcoast]

I didn't follow it as closely as I do now but I'm always impressed by a guy who can come into the league and dominate in his D+1 year.

Another example is Dahlin this year.

EP40 is going to be a great player and almost certainly will win the Calder but what Dahlin (and Crosby in 05-06)is doing at 18 is just so rare.

 

[bobholly39]

I'm in Canada and I bought into the hype, so from the start i always figured he'd be better. More specifically probably during or at the end of the 2007 season when Crosby had clearly passed him with his big art ross, that's when i really took not of him. I felt as though in the next 2-3 years, although Ovechkin ended up with better seasons Crosby was always close to him. Ovechkin never truly separated himself to have me rethink that.

Looking back though i'd agree that it's probably by 2012-2013 to 2013-2014 that he clearly separated himself. The 2 conn smythes (and internation success) after that helped widen the gap. Not that it's a huge gap, but i think it's there.

 

[psycat]

I rank Ovechkin higher than Crosby all time so probably never, they are close though. Arguably the greatest goalscorer of all time vs a glorified Mikita(whom in turn is underrated mind you).

 

[ImporterExporter]

He's always been the more complete hockey player by a good bit. But,

2010-11.

That is the most dominant half season stretch I've seen since Mario. Sadly it was ended by a cheap shot by a slug of a player (and subsequent poor handling by team doctors who misdiagnosed his injuries). Probably the biggest shame of 87's career was that he wasn't able to finish such an impressive start to a year.

Crosby was just on another level. Like you have the universe, and worlds. Sid was the universe and everyone else was just living in it. Was on pace to be on the ice for 100 even strength goals which is nuts. Was fantastic in the dot. Was a terror up and down the ice.

 

[TheGuiminator]

After the 2010 Olympics

 

[FerrisRox]

Pre-NHL, the very first time I saw Crosby play, I knew he was other-worldly.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Mid-December 2006. He had a 6-point and a 4-point night in consecutive games and just leapfrogged everybody in the scoring race.

 

[Michael Farkas]

There was never a sustained or noteworthy time that I would have ranked Ovechkin over Crosby.

 

[NyQuil]

Honestly, I remember it fluctuating back and forth which was the entertaining aspect about it.

 

[The Panther]

I... didn't....?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think i did not think he had passed for real until Ovechkin had those subpar seasons which he never managed to fully get back from.

this. i realized crosby was better than ovechkin when ovechkin was no longer ovechkin.

 

[feffan]

The thread seem to assume Crosby was really better all the time (at least from spring 2006...) and that some just realised later than others? Or am I misunderstanding? Because I really can´t see a case where 4/5 of the first seasons doesn´t go to Ovechkin as a player here.

So to me Crosby passed him somewhere after the 10/11 season had begun, but with the asterix that we because of injuries on Crosby really couldn´t pass the torch. And on the other hand neither could Ovechkin keep it... Sadly Ovechkin seemed to loose his drive after the 09/10 season (or rather during...). If it was the suspensions that made him bitter, the classic of reaching the age where atletic freaks also has to train or something completley different or a combo of many things we will probably never know. But after that summer Crosby was ahead any longer stretch analyzed.

For the record, Ovechkin before the Campell-suspension in march (his second suspension that season...) 09/10 had:
96 TP (44G) in 60 GP (1.6 PPG)
was tossed after 4 minutes plaed in game 60, and then:
13 TP (6G) in 11 GP (1.18 PPG, more in line with his stat the following season...)

I´m not arguing against the suspensions, but a part of me is sad that I never really saw Ovechkin of his first 5 seasons after that... To me it seems (and as I remember his play...) that he almost overnight went from being on path to one of the more dominant seasons since Lemieux/Jagr to being on Perry/Sedin level from there on...

In two days, it will have been 13 years since Ovechkin scored the fabulous goal against Phoenix. If I remember correctly, that's when the majority (even on this board) declared Ovi better than Sid and that's when the undecided said "yep, the Russian kid is better".

In retrospect, the goal may have won him the Calder

This to me is just silly. That goal had it´s hype, no argument there (I think he scored dozen more impressive goals that season...). But it wasn´t that wich made people place him above Crosby as a player or Ovechkin winning the Calder. Ovechkin got 124 1st place votes for the Calder and Crosby 4 because he had more points, goals and was hitting everything in sight in a way that had the fans and the leauge dreaming of soon having another peak-Lindros. That goal made the headlines, but Ovechkins Calder was built on him being the better player than Crosby over the whole season. If I remember correctley some instead feared that Crosbys hot april and him being 18 would make the voters vote for him, despising having a lesser (albeit great...) season.

There was never a sustained or noteworthy time that I would have ranked Ovechkin over Crosby.

You really rank Crosby above Ovechkin from 07/08-09/10? Ovechkin had 3 Pearson and 2 Harts (also placing above Crosby when H Sedin won...). There´s even a case to be made Crosby was the 2nd best Penguin during that time... Guess it depens on noteworthy time, but 3 seasons seem it to me.

 

[Troubadour]

I think he scored dozen more impressive goals that season...

Could you please remember at least some of those? More impressive implies more memorable, so you likely remember them. I don't and I would love to.

Thanks.

 

[Troubadour]

this. i realized crosby was better than ovechkin when ovechkin was no longer ovechkin.

And when was that? 06/07? You could say that's when Ovechkin was not being Ovechkin for a brief.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

When Ovechkin had 65. 69 and 71 point seasons all by the age of 31.

 

[feffan]

Could you please remember at least some of those? More impressive implies more memorable, so you likely remember them. I don't and I would love to.

Thanks.

More impressive hockey wise ain't to me alwaya more memorable (for example, the often "easy" and undramatic playstyle of Lidstrom won't leave as many memorable plays as an Leetch...). But many of Oveckins was. Will try to see if any of thoose goals are out there when at home and the time

 

[Michael Farkas]

You really rank Crosby above Ovechkin from 07/08-09/10? Ovechkin had 3 Pearson and 2 Harts (also placing above Crosby when H Sedin won...). There´s even a case to be made Crosby was the 2nd best Penguin during that time... Guess it depens on noteworthy time, but 3 seasons seem it to me

A) My "rankings" don't change with the weather.
B) I read the question "better" as "better player", not necessarily more career accomplishments in a finite window. There was never a time where Ovechkin was a better player than Crosby, certainly. There was a time where Ovechkin had more hardware I'm sure.

 

[Troubadour]

More impressive hockey wise ain't to me alwaya more memorable (for example, the often "easy" and undramatic playstyle of Lidstrom won't leave as many memorable plays as an Leetch...). But many of Oveckins was. Will try to see if any of thoose goals are out there when at home and the time

We're talking about goals, not styles of play, and we're talking about goals by the same player, not comparing goals by numerous players, and you immediately knew which goal I was talking about by simply saying "the goal against Phoenix", but you can't just name-drop any other, especially more impressive Ovechkin's goals from 05/06.

Excuse my way of grasping things, but whatever you end up digging up on YT in the end, it sounds as though the goal against Phoenix left the biggest impression on you just like everyone else

Btw listen to the commentators and what they had to say, it definitely was a big deal in the Crosby/Ovi debate and the Calder race as well.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I... didn't....?

glad Im not the only one

 

[GlitchMarner]

Hmmm... will this thread be very different from the 59 million other Crosby/Ovechkin threads?

 

[MXD]

When both had played their first game against the Habs, I suppose.