What's your opinion on the possibility of both McDavid + Drai being hart finalists this season?

[Hockey Outsider]

For context - there have been two Hart finalists on the same team 19 times in NHL history. Ten of these instances were prior to the 1967-68 expansion (fewer teams, so it was more common for two teammates to be the finalist for any award).

Of the nine that happened after expansion, five of them involved Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito. There have only been two Hart finalists on the same team three times since then - 1982 (Trottier 2nd, Bossy 3rd), 1988 (Fuhr 2nd, Gretzky 3rd), and 2001 (Lemieux 2nd, Jagr 3rd).

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

This is pretty funny but Drai last year after 41 games had the exact same amount of points, 61. McDavid at this point last year had 63 in 41, so just 6 points off his pace.

So yeah I'm inclined to believe they'd light the league on fire regardless, because they have. This isn't some "weak division" excuse fans of other teams have been using

I'm sure they'd both still be leading the NHL, I just think they'd probably have a few less points if they didn't have 7 extra games against Ottawa than they'd see in a normal 82 game season. McDavid is 1.5 PPG against the rest of the North this season, but 2.33 PPG against Ottawa. With 7 more games at ~1.5 PPG, it's about 5 points difference. The fact that McDavid is 6 points ahead of last year seems to back me up that more games against Ottawa = more points.

 

[daver]

Not sure about the Hart but one of them will win the McKenzie.

 

[george14]

Crosby has to be top 5. The guy is 5th in scoring I think and will get Selke votes too. Not to mention he’s leading the Pens while Malkin has been hurt among other injuries.

He’s quietly having a great year in a very tough division.

 

[Slapshot Sultan]

Both definitely should be finalists, but won't be. Some may think Larkin is more valuable to detroit than Drai to the Oilers just because Oilers also have McDavid. Having McDavid doesn't make Drai any less valuable to the Oilers

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Mcdavid
Crosby
Kane

 

[The S5]

Both are deserving, but, hockey awards are chosen by a media group, most of whom wouldn't know how to put on a full set of equipment.

 

[canuckking1]

Care to show some recent examples?

Also Matthews has been more productive than Marner this year so I think you may have your logic backwards.

and yeah I did watch the game. McDavid was flying all over the ice while Draisaitl was just kind of floating around waiting for McDavid to get him the puck.

I mean cherry pick highlights is such a weak argument.

 

[Larry Hanson]

So sick of these constant threads, voted neither just to protest

 

[bobholly39]

Mcdavid
Crosby
Kane

Kane has slowed down a lot. He used to be quite close to McDavid and Drai, but now he's down to 7th in ppg in the league, and among the top 10 he has the worst +/- and among the fewest goals. Also - Chicago is currently outside of the playoffs. He's still having a really good season, Hawks could still make playoffs and he could pick up his pace some more - but as of today, I don't think he's a hart candidate.

He looked very attractive a few weeks back, but unless Chicago makes playoffs and if others start outproducing him, he won't factor in the hart by year end.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Kane has slowed down a lot. He used to be quite close to McDavid and Drai, but now he's down to 7th in ppg in the league, and among the top 10 he has the worst +/- and among the fewest goals. Also - Chicago is currently outside of the playoffs. He's still having a really good season, Hawks could still make playoffs and he could pick up his pace some more - but as of today, I don't think he's a hart candidate.

He looked very attractive a few weeks back, but unless Chicago makes playoffs and if others start outproducing him, he won't factor in the hart by year end.

Yeah. I'm just assuming he will pick it back up
Mcdavid will win and leon will suffer in the voting for that. Crosby has 18 points in 12 games since malkin has been out and is carrying the pens on a hot streak. I think if the season ended today it would be
Mcdavid
Crosby
And maybe not sure the third selection

 

[bobholly39]

For context - there have been two Hart finalists on the same team 19 times in NHL history. Ten of these instances were prior to the 1967-68 expansion (fewer teams, so it was more common for two teammates to be the finalist for any award).

Of the nine that happened after expansion, five of them involved Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito. There have only been two Hart finalists on the same team three times since then - 1982 (Trottier 2nd, Bossy 3rd), 1988 (Fuhr 2nd, Gretzky 3rd), and 2001 (Lemieux 2nd, Jagr 3rd).

Sticking to post 1968 so it's a bit more relevant to larger league - in how many seasons can we truly say the 2 "best" players were teammates? Or even 2 of the top 3 "best" players?

Espo and Orr obviously, and as you say they were finalists together 5x.

Jagr/Lemieux too, but their prime didn't exactly matchup. 1996 should have been but Jagr missed and finished 4th. 2001 they were. 1993 Jagr wasn't good enough yet, 94 & 95 Lemieux didn't really play, 1997 Jagr was injured, and 98-00 Lemieux didn't play. So although they were probably the best 2 players in the league when they played together, they really only had 2 full seasons together, and once they were both top 3, one it was 1st and 4th.

Gretzky was the best player while in Edmonton, but i'm not sure that any of his teammates was the 2nd best player in the league in that stretch. Coffey maybe could have once or twice, but D don't usually get proper hart recognition.

Than you have Crosby/Malkin, among the 2 best players in the league for the past ~12 years. But they never had a single season where they both were on top of the league. The closest is probably 2009, but Crosby was a bit behind pace and him not being a finalist seemed correct. 2008 likely would have been, but Crosby missed ~30 games. I don't think there's a single other season where you can look and truly say "yeah, they're 2 of the best 3 players this season". Malkin either has an off year, or Crosby/Malkin missed time to injury.

So my point is - since the 70s, the only 2 instances I can think of where you could say the 2 "best" players were teammates was Jagr/Lemieux and Crosby/Malkin. And only Jagr/Lemieux were the best "in season", twice. Once they were both finalists (2001), one just barely missed (1996). So McDavid + Drai being in the running for the 2 "best" players this year is a truly rare occurrence. In my opinion - they both deserve to be finalists

 

[bobholly39]

Yeah. I'm just assuming he will pick it back up
Mcdavid will win and leon will suffer in the voting for that. Crosby has 18 points in 12 games since malkin has been out and is carrying the pens on a hot streak. I think if the season ended today it would be
Mcdavid
Crosby
And maybe not sure the third selection

Hart voters like Crosby, so maybe. I think Matthews should get a lot of attention - I like that he's helped Toronto stay #1 all season. Too often hart voters try to reward players who help "bubble teams" make playoffs. Matthews scoring goals and Toronto at #1 is a good story. Even Barkov in Florida, though I'd prefer Matthews.

I think the contenders for hart in no particular order are:

Mack, Kane, Crosby, Matthews, Barkov. Maybe a goalie or a D, and if so probably Hedman/Vasi, but a bit harder to judge since forwards usually get more attention. Maybe Mark Stone too. And of course we're all agreed McDavid likely wins - and Drai is the question mark. I personally think Drai should be a finalist too if he continues dominating the rest of the field in the scoring race

 

[authentic]

Hart voters like Crosby, so maybe. I think Matthews should get a lot of attention - I like that he's helped Toronto stay #1 all season. Too often hart voters try to reward players who help "bubble teams" make playoffs. Matthews scoring goals and Toronto at #1 is a good story. Even Barkov in Florida, though I'd prefer Matthews.

I think the contenders for hart in no particular order are:

Mack, Kane, Crosby, Matthews, Barkov. Maybe a goalie or a D, and if so probably Hedman/Vasi, but a bit harder to judge since forwards usually get more attention. Maybe Mark Stone too. And of course we're all agreed McDavid likely wins - and Drai is the question mark. I personally think Drai should be a finalist too if he continues dominating the rest of the field in the scoring race

I think Matthews will likely be 2nd, assuming he continues doing what's he's been doing all season when healthy.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

McDavid and Drai aren't torching the league. They are torching the other 6 teams in Canada, and heavily padding their stats against Ottawa (each with 21 points in 9 games). Are we supposed to believe they'd be replicating these numbers in any of the other divisions?

You mean like last year when draisaitl scored at a higher rate?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Draisaitl is a great player but McDavid is clearly the straw the stirs the drink on that team.

I mean just look at the highlights of this recent game above.

All he does is mooch points of McDavid by sitting and waiting for one-timers or doing little drop passes to him and letting McDavid do all the work.

Great Player but definitely not the 2nd best player in the world like Oilers fans would tell you and definitely not deserving of Hart consideration.

So you use a highlight of 4 points to come to the conclusion that all he does is mooch points?

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The Hart is not awarded to the best player of the season. Its a dumb award where voters come up with their own definition of the award every year.

Drai will not be a finalist because of McDavid.

 

[Party Kane]

McDavid and Drai aren't torching the league. They are torching the other 6 teams in Canada, and heavily padding their stats against Ottawa (each with 21 points in 9 games). Are we supposed to believe they'd be replicating these numbers in any of the other divisions?

Yea you're right, not like they've ever done this over multiple seasons and 82 games against the whole league. What a couple of bums

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yea you're right, not like they've ever done this over multiple seasons and 82 games against the whole league. What a couple of bums

McDavid has never scored at this rate over an 82 game season, and is currently 0.16 PPG ahead of his previous career high. Against the teams that aren't Ottawa, he's 1.5 PPG this season, right around his previous career high. But, please, tell me how there's zero benefit from playing Ottawa 9 times.

 

[4EDM14OIL93]

McDavid has never scored at this rate over an 82 game season, and is currently 0.16 PPG ahead of his previous career high. Against the teams that aren't Ottawa, he's 1.5 PPG this season, right around his previous career high. But, please, tell me how there's zero benefit from playing Ottawa 9 times.

You realize that while they have played Ottawa more time than normal, they have also played zero (0) games against the Sabres, Red Wings, Ducks, Kings etc. of the world? Such a poor argument.

You also realize the reason the Sens GA/game is so bad is because of McDavid and Draisaitl?

 

[GermanSpitfire]

As much as I live Drai, NO ONE is touching Connor this year.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You realize that while they have played Ottawa more time than normal, they have also played zero (0) games against the Sabres, Red Wings, Ducks, Kings etc. of the world? Such a poor argument.

You also realize the reason the Sens GA/game is so bad is because of McDavid and Draisaitl?

They've only played 1 team (Winnipeg) that finished in the top half of the league last year in GA/GP, and they were 10th. Do you think playing more games against the Sabres, Red Wings, Ducks, Kings (who are all better than Ottawa) would have the same impact as playing Vegas, Colorado, NYI, Carolina, Boston, etc?

And there's only 2 teams that Ottawa has kept under 3.71 goals per game this season, Calgary and Montreal. So, it's really not just McDavid and Draisaitl that have torched them.

Or do you think it's just a happy a coincidence that so many guys in the North are putting up career best PPG rates?

 

[4EDM14OIL93]

They've only played 1 team (Winnipeg) that finished in the top half of the league last year in GA/GP, and they were 10th. Do you think playing more games against the Sabres, Red Wings, Ducks, Kings (who are all better than Ottawa) would have the same impact as playing Vegas, Colorado, NYI, Carolina, Boston, etc?

And there's only 2 teams that Ottawa has kept under 3.71 goals per game this season, Calgary and Montreal. So, it's really not just McDavid and Draisaitl that have torched them.

Or do you think it's just a happy a coincidence that so many guys in the North are putting up career best PPG rates?

I don’t care what other players in the north are doing all I know is that McDavid and Draisaitl have a track record of being the highest producing players in the league, and they are in their prime so it shouldn’t be shocking to see them putting up these numbers regardless of the division. The difference in goals per game across the divisions is not nearly enough to explain the rate that these two have above other players across the league

 

[thadd]

My opinion: Edmonton must have the worst forward depth in the league if their other lines can't score with Drai and McDavid on their team.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Draisaitl is a great player but McDavid is clearly the straw the stirs the drink on that team.

I mean just look at the highlights of this recent game above.

All he does is mooch points of McDavid by sitting and waiting for one-timers or doing little drop passes to him and letting McDavid do all the work.

Great Player but definitely not the 2nd best player in the world like Oilers fans would tell you and definitely not deserving of Hart consideration.

Gotta admit, those one-timers by Draisaitl we pretty insane though. Only a low percentage of player could capitalize from these angle.