Post-Game Talk: What's This? We Beat Dubnyk? He is Human After All? Oilers 2-1 Over The Wild

[guymez]

You're right about the aftermath of the Petry trade. What's the team to do?

Petry is bailing after the season. Might as well get something for him now. Even if it is only a 2nd rounder and a B-level prospect, it's better than nothing.

Not like the team is playing for anything this season.

The issue I have with the Petry situation is that the team decided at the end of last season that Petry wasnt a long term solution here. Thats why they settled on a 1 year deal.
Instead they brought in Nikitin and paid him Petrys money.

Thats my issue with this situation. It was a serious misread of Petrys value moving forward and that was compounded by another misread of Nikitins value.

So the end result is a defence that is regressing instead of improving.

Under MacT the defence is getting worse instead of better and thats a major accomplishment because it was pretty bad to start.

 

[nexttothemoon]

20 more to go...

 

[Mr Positive]

The issue I have with the Petry situation is that the team decided at the end of last season that Petry wasnt a long term solution here. Thats why they settled on a 1 year deal.
Instead they brought in Nikitin and paid him Petrys money.

Thats my issue with this situation. It was a serious misread of Petrys value moving forward and that was compounded by another misread of Nikitins value.

So the end result is a defence that is regressing instead of improving.

Under MacT the defence is getting worse instead of better and thats a major accomplishment because it was pretty bad to start.

It's hard to compare the Nikitin deal with Petry's. Petry was RFA, Nikitin was UFA. Nikitin's deal was short term. Petry was probably looking for a long term deal, and probably a NMC. Judging by MacT's comments, Petry's cap number probably would have been 4.5 just like Nikitin.

When you look at how our other contracts are lining up, I can see why MacT would have been hesitant to sign a contract for around 5 years.

 

[Tyrolean]

The issue I have with the Petry situation is that the team decided at the end of last season that Petry wasnt a long term solution here. Thats why they settled on a 1 year deal.
Instead they brought in Nikitin and paid him Petrys money.

Thats my issue with this situation. It was a serious misread of Petrys value moving forward and that was compounded by another misread of Nikitins value.

So the end result is a defence that is regressing instead of improving.

Under MacT the defence is getting worse instead of better and thats a major accomplishment because it was pretty bad to start.

Fayne was an improvement and Klefbaum is having a good year. The D is not all bad.

 

[Tyrolean]

It's hard to compare the Nikitin deal with Petry's. Petry was RFA, Nikitin was UFA. Nikitin's deal was short term. Petry was probably looking for a long term deal, and probably a NMC. Judging by MacT's comments, Petry's cap number probably would have been 4.5 just like Nikitin.

When you look at how our other contracts are lining up, I can see why MacT would have been hesitant to sign a contract for around 5 years.

Petry has only become outstanding this season. The other seasons he was at best average. That's the reason he was given a 1 year contract so he can prove himself. Too bad the GM cannot be clairvoyant all the time.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Petry has only become outstanding this season. The other seasons he was at best average. That's the reason he was given a 1 year contract so he can prove himself. Too bad the GM cannot be clairvoyant all the time.

Maybe if he never hired that tire fire of a coach he would've gotten a better read on his players?

 

[Summary]

It's hard to compare the Nikitin deal with Petry's. Petry was RFA, Nikitin was UFA. Nikitin's deal was short term. Petry was probably looking for a long term deal, and probably a NMC. Judging by MacT's comments, Petry's cap number probably would have been 4.5 just like Nikitin.

When you look at how our other contracts are lining up, I can see why MacT would have been hesitant to sign a contract for around 5 years.

No it's very easy to compare the two. Remember this thing that was started recently, easy to forget about cause no one ever talks about it but we call it the Salary Cap. Nikitin's deal didn't have to happen at all, Petry's did. Nikitin was terribly overvalued, Petry was undervalued.

Petry even last summer was certainly the kind of defenceman that would be great to have for the next 5 years. Unfortunately I believe our managers still had the idea that they have to make room for up and comers, with Petry not having Norris Potential they just didn't see the need to keep him.

 

[dssource]

Although we were outplayed and out shot I didn't really feel like we were really in danger. If this was Eakins team there would of been ridiculous amounts of scrambling around and nail biting moments but I felt despite being hemmed it they never really had superb chances imo.

Quality scoring chances may disagree but it didn't seem that way to me.

My thoughts exactly. The Wild def outplayed the Oilers in the last 40mins but other than a handful of qulaity scoring chances, there was never really that much danger other than being hemmed in our zone the whole time. Oilers D were first to rebounds or Scrivens swallowed whenever he could.

Last 5 mins or so of the 3rd, Nelson shortened the bench and Oilers were able to keep the puck deep or not let Minny get going. Nelson kept Gadzic, Pakman and Fraser on the bench. Smart move.

I thought Roy had a good game as well, just surrounded by plumbers.

Thought this was fitting when I saw it this AM:
https://twitter.com/VisaCA/status/566418216348434432

Overall I'll def take a road victory against a team like the Wild who always seem to have our number. Especially with the lineup we iced tonight.

 

[OilTastic]

yup, what were the odds? no Hall, no Lander, no Nail....Minny at home, Dubnyk killing off the Oilers like most ex-Oiler players do, and....we win??? who knew?

 

[Kepler 186f]

Great game from Scrivens, good first period by Eberle and Pouliot. Petry had a pretty good game as well, be sad to see him go.

 

[nally]

Thanks guys!

- Jets fans

Thanks Edmonton! Hate the Wild and love the result. Good work!

Love the love from other fan basis for winning games. Strange feeling.

 

[Up the Irons]

Petry has only become outstanding this season. The other seasons he was at best average. That's the reason he was given a 1 year contract so he can prove himself. Too bad the GM cannot be clairvoyant all the time.

actually, it was very predictable. He is just now approaching 300 GP, the point when most Dman become very useful vets.

Maybe if he never hired that tire fire of a coach he would've gotten a better read on his players?

so much can be blamed on Eakins (so, austensibly, Mact). He ruined 2 seasons and so many players. Not sure if we'll ever fully recover from him. Lost a good goalie, about to lose a good Dman. Could have lost Lander.

 

[Up the Irons]

How did Klefbom and marincin play? Looks like they got some solid minutes.

Marincin had a helluva game. Notably, Nelson had him out there for the last minute, to preserve the 2-1 win. he was very solid.

 

[guymez]

Fayne was an improvement and Klefbaum is having a good year. The D is not all bad.

Fayne is a good defender. I was actually happy about this signing last year.
Suggesting the defence is worse is maybe an overstatement...running in place is maybe a better description.

MacT saw fit to bring in Belov and Grebeshkov last season and trade Smid. So he gets rid of a legit NHL defender and brings in 2 players who are not legit NHL defenders.

Same thing this year...one step forward 2 steps back. Brings in Nikitin (worse)...releases Petry.

Klefbom is simply a product of development...hard to give MacT credit for that. Now watch the team overuse Klefbom by putting him in a position he isnt ready for.

At some point Management has to actually start making headway on improving this defence and stop shuttling legit NHL players out the door.

 

[Mr Positive]

No it's very easy to compare the two. Remember this thing that was started recently, easy to forget about cause no one ever talks about it but we call it the Salary Cap. Nikitin's deal didn't have to happen at all, Petry's did. Nikitin was terribly overvalued, Petry was undervalued.

Petry even last summer was certainly the kind of defenceman that would be great to have for the next 5 years. Unfortunately I believe our managers still had the idea that they have to make room for up and comers, with Petry not having Norris Potential they just didn't see the need to keep him.

what I take issue with is the idea that we can't have Petry because we used that money on Nikitin, which is just not true. Nikitin is an extra piece and just a mercenary we got to keep Nurse off the roster, because last year at LHD we were playing guys like Ference and Larsen on the top line.

Petry's deal would have likely been in the 4-6 year range, a range that he would have insisted on (or else I feel there would have been a deal made), and in those later years we would take a lot of risk, and it is in those years that we're going to need space to sign extensions for guys like Hall and Eberle. That's why a potential Petry deal has nothing to do with Nikitin, since he'll be long gone by then.

At one time Tom Gilbert was a dynamic RHD, and we signed him long term, and that deal bit us in the butt. There is no magical number of games where a Dman suddenly arrives, despite what some think.

 

[guymez]

It's hard to compare the Nikitin deal with Petry's. Petry was RFA, Nikitin was UFA. Nikitin's deal was short term. Petry was probably looking for a long term deal, and probably a NMC. Judging by MacT's comments, Petry's cap number probably would have been 4.5 just like Nikitin.

When you look at how our other contracts are lining up, I can see why MacT would have been hesitant to sign a contract for around 5 years.

Up the Irons and Summary pretty much covered this post but I will suggest one additional thing.

Anything would have been better than a 1 year deal. If the Oilers actually valued Petry (and realized that he was still developing) then that 1 year deal would have never happened.

Good teams are able to recognize and identify players worth keeping. Especially when they spend years developing that player.

Petry is arguably the teams best defender. Yet another unnecessary hole to fill entirely created by shortsighted Management.

One step forward...2 steps back.

 

[Digger12]

actually, it was very predictable. He is just now approaching 300 GP, the point when most Dman become very useful vets.



so much can be blamed on Eakins (so, austensibly, Mact). He ruined 2 seasons and so many players. Not sure if we'll ever fully recover from him. Lost a good goalie, about to lose a good Dman. Could have lost Lander.

I don't recall too many people predicting some big breakout season from Petry back in September. Maybe I missed it?

He's had a good year, don't get me wrong...I just don't see it as some big explosion in productivity (15 points, -25). His improvements are strictly what people see by eye, i.e. he "looks" more assertive, and his analytics suggest he gets counted on a lot on a conference-worst team.

I want to see how he produces once he's not playing for a contract before I'm convinced that he's "arrived".

 

[Mr Positive]

Up the Irons and Summary pretty much covered this post but I will suggest one additional thing.

Anything would have been better than a 1 year deal. If the Oilers actually valued Petry (and realized that he was still developing) then that 1 year deal would have never happened.

Petry is arguably the teams best defender. Yet another unnecessary hole to fill entirely created by shortsighted Management.

One step forward...2 steps back.

you have this argument of one step forward two steps back, but I don't really see it. You see signing Grebs as a step back despite it having no detrimental effect on the team. Grebs is an example of bad gambling and perhaps poor pro scouting, but he didn't set our D back. He barely even played. Smid was a boat anchor, and he still is for Calgary. Nikitin is also not a step back. He's a step forward from Larsen and Ference. The only negative is his cap hit, which is manageable. If he does get in the way of getting a better player, we have options to deal with that.

Losing Petry is a step backwards. Ultimately though, he's a free agent. I can't know what he wants but I have to imagine that if he were willing to accept a shorter deal, that deal would have happened. Petry also may be our best defender, which is arguable since he plays significantly less than Schultz and also plays softer minutes than Fayne, but he does bring a more balanced mix of skills than either of them.

 

[guymez]

I don't recall too many people predicting some big breakout season from Petry back in September. Maybe I missed it?

He's had a good year, don't get me wrong...I just don't see it as some big explosion in productivity (15 points, -25). His improvements are strictly what people see by eye, i.e. he "looks" more assertive, and his analytics suggest he gets counted on a lot on a conference-worst team.

I want to see how he produces once he's not playing for a contract before I'm convinced that he's "arrived".

Lots of people suggested that it was too early to cut bait on Petry last season.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that developing Dmen need at least 300 games before they start to figure things out.

What is the point of putting in all that time to develop a player and then cutting bait early?

Doesn't make sense. At the very least you need to know what you have before you make a decision on what direction you are going.

 

[OneMoreAstronaut]

I get the feeling that Petry wouldn't accept anything other than a 1 year deal, and that what management told us about "testing him on a 1 year deal" was just lip service.

 

[Digger12]

Lots of people suggested that it was too early to cut bait on Petry last season.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that developing Dmen need at least 300 games before they start to figure things out.

What is the point of putting in all that time to develop a player and then cutting bait early?

Doesn't make sense. At the very least you need to know what you have before you make a decision on what direction you are going.

To be fair though, isn't that what the Oilers were doing when they came to terms on a 1 year deal with Petry? Not committing long term to a player that still had some question marks around him?

The other side of the equation is Petry, of course...maybe he just didn't want to commit long term with the Oilers for whatever reason at that time, unless they overpaid.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

My thoughts exactly. The Wild def outplayed the Oilers in the last 40mins but other than a handful of qulaity scoring chances, there was never really that much danger other than being hemmed in our zone the whole time. Oilers D were first to rebounds or Scrivens swallowed whenever he could.

Last 5 mins or so of the 3rd, Nelson shortened the bench and Oilers were able to keep the puck deep or not let Minny get going. Nelson kept Gadzic, Pakman and Fraser on the bench. Smart move.

I thought Roy had a good game as well, just surrounded by plumbers.

Thought this was fitting when I saw it this AM:
https://twitter.com/VisaCA/status/566418216348434432

Overall I'll def take a road victory against a team like the Wild who always seem to have our number. Especially with the lineup we iced tonight.

Never thought I'd hear Morgan Freeman (or sound-a-like) say RNH's name. If I was RNH I'd cut that audio of my name being said by Freeman and use it on my answering machine/service pronto.

 

[yukoner88]

Fayne is a good defender. I was actually happy about this signing last year.
Suggesting the defence is worse is maybe an overstatement...running in place is maybe a better description.

MacT saw fit to bring in Belov and Grebeshkov last season and trade Smid. So he gets rid of a legit NHL defender and brings in 2 players who are not legit NHL defenders.

Same thing this year...one step forward 2 steps back. Brings in Nikitin (worse)...releases Petry.

Klefbom is simply a product of development...hard to give MacT credit for that. Now watch the team overuse Klefbom by putting him in a position he isnt ready for.

At some point Management has to actually start making headway on improving this defence and stop shuttling legit NHL players out the door.

Smid's contract was the problem, and he started to slow down a bit last season. If Brossoit continues his steady development, we win that trade.

Belov is actually a big what if. If Kruger was kept as head coach, I think we get a better result out of that experiment, same if Nelson was promoted instead of hiring Eakins. Belov came here with some gusto and was pretty physical at the start, but he wasn't managed properly, and he was not fond of Eakins at all.

 

[Nunymare]

yup, what were the odds? no Hall, no Lander, no Nail....Minny at home, Dubnyk killing off the Oilers like most ex-Oiler players do, and....we win??? who knew?

This is like only the second or third time I can remember ever beating Minny at home.

 

[PKSpecialist]

To be fair though, isn't that what the Oilers were doing when they came to terms on a 1 year deal with Petry? Not committing long term to a player that still had some question marks around him?

The other side of the equation is Petry, of course...maybe he just didn't want to commit long term with the Oilers for whatever reason at that time, unless they overpaid.

Is there not a quote somewhere that MacT says the player(Petry) wanted something(term) that he hadn't proven to be worth consistently. I'm paraphrasing, but my understanding is that the oilers offered Petry a deal at x years for x dollars and Petry wanted more term for sure, not sure if they agreed on salary or not. MacT basically said that they agreed on the one year deal as a show me deal because he didn't see the player that Petry believed he was. Now MacT comes out and says they are talking with Petry again because he has shown him that player. It's up to Petry to decide his fate now.

You can't blame management here. They could have jumped all in on Petry and given him what he wanted, but would he have developed to the point he has without the show-me contract?