What's the underlying problem?

[molon labe]

We don't really have an NHL level D-Corps and just played against a team that ran more interference than a signal jammer. I have no clue if the rules changed of if Boston just gets to play however they want but those were two brutal games to watch.

Other than that - the Penguins are built (at this point) entirely on skill and finesse. Teams built on size and structure are going to play better at the start of the year. Our squad is going to need to work the kinks out of their passing, shooting, skating, etc before we start looking good. I'm not nearly as disgusted as I'd have expected or a lot of you are. I knew our bottom 6 had basically zero scoring threat - knew that after ditching Horny we'd have a tough time winning 1 goal games that get chippy....so what's the big confusion here?

 

[Pancakes]

We don't really have an NHL level D-Corps and just played against a team that ran more interference than a signal jammer. I have no clue if the rules changed of if Boston just gets to play however they want but those were two brutal games to watch.

Other than that - the Penguins are built (at this point) entirely on skill and finesse. Teams built on size and structure are going to play better at the start of the year. Our squad is going to need to work the kinks out of their passing, shooting, skating, etc before we start looking good. I'm not nearly as disgusted as I'd have expected or a lot of you are. I knew our bottom 6 had basically zero scoring threat - knew that after ditching Horny we'd have a tough time winning 1 goal games that get chippy....so what's the big confusion here?

I dunno man. I can't think of a single game this year where we have looked good, and we're almost 10 games in. We could easily be winless on the year. I feel like we've been that bad.

Maybe I'm being hyperbolic, but we have looked sooooo terrible, even in our wins.

 

[Andy99]

Ronduguay....congrats on actually creating a legit poll question that doesn’t have “Malkin” as an option...

I chose #1 but as others have said it’s a little of #2 and #3 as well..I’d have said #4 if we hadn’t seen this same puppy last year and during the return to play...

I don’t think there’s a conscious effort to quit on Sully or play unhungry....I think the system relies on the stars being able to play hard and fight through checks and carry the puck through 2+ guys and pass quickly on a dime...they can’t consistently do that...it’s not a lack of want to...same with goal scoring...they’re not as good at it anymore...the help they do have aren’t elite at it either...because they are mostly built with speedy grinder types, it requires balls to the wall play every night and fighting off defenders in the crease to get to the net front for deflections etc...Jake coming back from injury can’t do it anymore, no young Hornys on the roster, stars can’t do it, no one with elite puck skills to help the stars etc...so there’s somewhat of a roster problem but no way should they be as bad as they are...I think they’re thinking too much how to play fast in this system to gain an advantage they don’t have anymore...the lack of structure doesn’t work...that’s on Sully...agree with others who say he’s not the only problem but to see what you have with this group, he has to be the first to go...btw I don’t think they fire him and hence this is another lost season

 

[KIRK]

I dunno man. I can't think of a single game this year where we have looked good, and we're almost 10 games in. We could easily be winless on the year. I feel like we've been that bad.

Maybe I'm being hyperbolic, but we have looked sooooo terrible, even in our wins.

That's hardly hyperbolic.

Me saying Captain Boo Boo Face, Russian Man Bad, and Stupid But Pretty Frenchie are waiting for Mario to placate their captain with a coaching change might have a (diminishing with each passing game) hint of hyperbole to it, but your post certainly does not.

 

[SomeDude]

There's no one thing to point to, it's a combination of many things.

The stars are showing their age and lack of a real training camp and pre-season certainly compounds that. Malkin admitted last night that he still doesn't feel up to speed like he normally would. He also said how different it is playing without fans, which is a little worrisome to me. It can be hard for some guys to generate the energy they get from playing in front of a full arena. Their lack of jump and making flat out stupid decisions is hurting them. I'm not convinced the system is 'broken' as the bottom 6 has looked fine. I think it has more to do with the key players in the top 6 (Sid and Geno) playing mostly like garbage. The line combos also were a real problem until ERod sacrificed himself for the good of the team. Hopefully those stay sane now.

Before he went out, Dumoulin looked like a shell of his former self which is a huge blow. Again, the star of the D, Letang, is playing like a moron which is also killing them.

The PP is also failing them. I think they need to try Zucker in front of the net. He played that role in Minny for awhile and is pretty good at deflections and burying chances in the dirty areas. They need to just simplify things.

I still am not sure really how bad (or good) this team is. I think some of their problems are fixable, and I am confident that the best players will start playing like it sooner rather than later, but age catches up with everyone. The ironic thing is the biggest worry heading into the season was bottom 6 and that has been the best part of the team so far.

 

[LOGiK]

Personal opinion:
I think the system / speed go go go style of game is just redundant... it's not that the players got old at all, penguins are as fast / faster than every team they played so far. I dont think they gave up on MS at all... as a team at least... they, game in game out, are just working against themselves the entire game - and working very hard at that. Forcing the puck up the ice as fast as possible and then getting into the attacking zone with nothing but outside play.

I just finished the Bruins game and I don't think the penguins had more than a shot or two from within 6 feet of the goalie the entire game. Yet they kept forcing it. It's just speed speed speed and when they get there, they have nothing but forcing something that isnt there.

It's amazing really that they are looking for that so much, yet shipped out the net front guy.

They have next to zero play making happening out on the ice. It's about the most stale vanilla form of speed game with nothing behind it.

Boston and their 1-1-3 annihilate the penguins breakout / entry / passing most of the entire two games... aside from Rask getting a cramp and a semi-lucky bounce from kap's rush... penguins lone clean goal was friggin CC.

Not like it's any surprise boston stuck a stick in the penguins spoke... I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.

Even when the penguins 'control the game' or have long possession runs... it rarely translates to anything positive. Soon as that flow tilts to the other team they score a goal.... almost like clockwork.

 

[larueskee]

I read this on another board and wouldn't doubt it, but is this even a rumor in Pittsburgh?

Have read a couple of snippets that Rutherford wanted to move forward with a complete rebuild of the roster, discussed possible trade destinations with Malkin and Letang both have NMC or NTC. Ownership was not keen on this plan, Rutherford decided to quit.

A couple of the posters on HF Boards have pointed to Crosby basically running that team the last couple of season, "What Sid wants Sid gets"
Pointed to the Jack Johnson signing as this was pushed by Sid.

 

[EightyOne]

The Sid gets what he wants is mostly speculation... It's a fun meme.

 

[Gurglesons]

My friend @Gurglesons would say the only time in the last 2 years this team looked greater the sum of its parts was when the captain was out.

Yohe’s article today:

Malkin didn’t train and said he’s bad.
Letang looks like a rookie and is “yikes bad”.
Crosby was trying very hard and Bergeron is too great for Sid to score against.

Lol.

I can’t remember a moment in the last year and a half where I’d say Crosby was “trying very hard” unless it was trying very hard to turnover the puck by throwing blind passes up the gut of the ice.

 

[Beau Knows]

With Crosby and Malkin playing well, this is a playoff team, but they'd just be masking our issues before the teams loses in the first round again.

The roster has problems, but I don't see why this can't be a pretty good team if it had a system that the players believe in. I'm not accusing anyone of outright quitting, but almost nobody except some of the new guys look like they have any confidence or the willingness to bust their asses to execute Sully's game plan.

 

[KIRK]

Yohe’s article today:

Malkin didn’t train and said he’s bad.
Letang looks like a rookie and is “yikes bad”.
Crosby was trying very hard and Bergeron is too great for Sid to score against.

Lol.

I can’t remember a moment in the last year and a half where I’d say Crosby was “trying very hard” unless it was trying very hard to turnover the puck by throwing blind passes up the gut of the ice.

I don't know. Those pirouettes he was off skating in the defensive zone in Boston on the way to a -4 (while his hand picked linemates pretended to play defense) . . . that looked like a lot of work.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't know. Those pirouettes he was off skating in the defensive zone in Boston on the way to a -4 (while his hand picked linemates pretended to play defense) . . . that looked like a lot of work.

Malkin being out of shape perfectly explains his game. He’s frustrated because he can’t do what he is used to doing and lost his step. Makes it perfectly reasonable to see him bounce back slowly as the year goes on.

Burying Letang is especially odd when every member of the D has been terrible. I mean when POJ and Ruhwedel are looking better than the 13 mil you spent on Dumo, Matheson and Marino to support the older player in Letang I don’t get how you can criticize him.

 

[Beau Knows]

A couple of the posters on HF Boards have pointed to Crosby basically running that team the last couple of season, "What Sid wants Sid gets"
Pointed to the Jack Johnson signing as this was pushed by Sid.

It's certainly a fan theory being pushed by some here, that's about it.

 

[KIRK]

Malkin being out of shape perfectly explains his game. He’s frustrated because he can’t do what he is used to doing and lost his step. Makes it perfectly reasonable to see him bounce back slowly as the year goes on.

You'd still expect more. MAYBE if he was in shape, he'd be doing things that extend Sullivan's employment until the inevitable (like he did with Therrien and Johnston when the captain and others started sending on ice messages about the coach needing to go).

That said, the issue now remains that you can't know what needs fixed until there's first a coaching change. If Russian Man Bad is off the cliff, if Stupid But Pretty Frenchie has gone through his last remaining brain cells . . . all of it, there's no proper way to ascertain what can be fixed and what isn't part of a solution without first making that coaching change. Things are too far gone for Sullivan to be part of the solution (and again, that's not even an indictment of Sullivan . . . just the natural order of things with coaches for every team in the league).

 

[KIRK]

The Sid gets what he wants is mostly speculation... It's a fun meme.

Yes it is . . .

 

[Gurglesons]

You'd still expect more. MAYBE if he was in shape, he'd be doing things that extend Sullivan's employment until the inevitable (like he did with Therrien and Johnston when the captain and others started sending on ice messages about the coach needing to go).

That said, the issue now remains that you can't know what needs fixed until there's first a coaching change. If Russian Man Bad is off the cliff, if Stupid But Pretty Frenchie has gone through his last remaining brain cells . . . all of it, there's no proper way to ascertain what can be fixed and what isn't part of a solution without first making that coaching change. Things are too far gone for Sullivan to be part of the solution (and again, that's not even an indictment of Sullivan . . . just the natural order of things with coaches for every team in the league).

True.

But I just find it absolutely hilarious they are trying to scapegoat Letang when our franchise center can’t do shit with our two best wingers.

Since the Philly debacle Letang has played 125 minutes at 5v5 and been on the ice for 5 GF and 2 GA.

 

[KIRK]

True.

But I just find it absolutely hilarious they are trying to scapegoat Letang when our franchise center can’t do shit with our two best wingers.

Because the scapegoat order hasn't changed in a decade . . .

1. Malkin
2. Letang
3. Anyone but Super Genius Junior Junior's favorite player

except those times it's . . .

1. Letang
2. Malkin
3. Anyone but Super Genius Junior Junior's favorite player

 

[CactusPens]

It's got to be the coaching. They look disjointed, no one seems to really know what they're supposed to be doing out there. If it was just Geno looking terrible I'd be more willing to say it's a slump but pretty much the whole team hasn't looked great from Montreal onwards. One player bad? Individual problem. Everyone bad? Coaching problem.

The fact that he hasn't even tried putting Guentzel and Rust with Geno and Zuck and Kap with Crosby just to try switch it up after the current lines obviously aren't working should be proof enough.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because the scapegoat order hasn't changed in a decade . . .

1. Malkin
2. Letang
3. Anyone but Super Genius Junior Junior's favorite player

except those times it's . . .

1. Letang
2. Malkin
3. Anyone but Super Genius Junior Junior's favorite player

Kessel too. But he sucked after 2018 so.

 

[Gurglesons]

PIT media at its finest.

 

[Andy99]

I read this on another board and wouldn't doubt it, but is this even a rumor in Pittsburgh?

Have read a couple of snippets that Rutherford wanted to move forward with a complete rebuild of the roster, discussed possible trade destinations with Malkin and Letang both have NMC or NTC. Ownership was not keen on this plan, Rutherford decided to quit.

A couple of the posters on HF Boards have pointed to Crosby basically running that team the last couple of season, "What Sid wants Sid gets"
Pointed to the Jack Johnson signing as this was pushed by Sid.

that’s speculation and not a very good one...JR basically refuted it had anything to do with trading a player or players...he’s known for awhile ownership’s position re not trading the core and worked within it...I can’t see that as being reason to suddenly quit...

as for Sid, he doesn’t “run” the team but has a lot of say, primarily on his line mates and the system in place...he wants to play in a fun offensive system like a lot of skilled players and that does impact what the coaching staff can do...I do think he pushed for JJ...he needs push back from some of this by coaches and management but it seems a big leap to say he’s running the team

 

[Gurglesons]

Jarry is the worst goalie in the league by expected goals, but it’s the defense’s fault.

 

[Habs10025]

Crosby Jealousy is an awesome thing .

 

[KIRK]

Kessel too. But he sucked after 2018 so.

Yeah, but that was wrapped up into a year why the end was mainly Malkin's fault, so technically, despite who actually did or didn't do what in the Islanders series, that was a year of . . .

1. Malkin
2. Letang
3. Anyone but Super Genius Junior Junior's favorite player

 

[KIRK]

Crosby Jealousy is an awesome thing .

What's wrong with people wishing they were in charge of their bosses?