What's next for the Flames

[DFF]

Why is everyone so enamored by Eichel? He scored two goals last year and has injury issues. I'd rather not gut the team for a question mark.

Well, he was injured

He gives hope. Better than sticking with the same core 3 yrs in a row.

I think most people had enough of Johnny/Monahan and Johnny/Tkachuk may not be any better

 

[Volica]

Sound like nothing next

Treliving is going to roll the dice with the same core minus the captain one more time

Think about it, the team got lucky with Johnny, 3 high lottery picks, a Norris level dman and here we are after 7 yrs


Most people would be lucky to keep a job with such performance

Well no, internal growth.
Remember? Every year we hear about internal growth and how that's how we take the next steps?

It's crazy. You look at the teams that are constantly at the top of standings:
- Draft early for a while, get their A+ talent.
- Get at least 3 late rounds steals.

Flames did the hard part, in getting guys like Gaudreau, Giordano, Mangiapane, Brodie; to come in with late picks or no picks at all, and become top line, top pairing guys. The easy part, in tanking for elite talent, is something they just couldn't do. Like, they just couldn't manage to do it properly.

 

[Ainsy01]

Ive said it before, and ill say it again. Sam Bennett being a bust at 4 set the rebuilt roster back from a legit contender back into the mushy middle. If he became a ppg centre with snarl, like others drafted around him, even if he contributed say 25-30 goals and 30 assists, this team is easily 10-15 points higher in the standings every year. Would have allowed backlund to be the 3rd line shut down center he is so good at. Would have solidified the top 6 and allowed chemistry to develop. Augh. whatever

 

[Volica]

Ive said it before, and ill say it again. Sam Bennett being a bust at 4 set the rebuilt roster back from a legit contender back into the mushy middle. If he became a ppg centre with snarl, like others drafted around him, even if he contributed say 25-30 goals and 30 assists, this team is easily 10-15 points higher in the standings every year. Would have allowed backlund to be the 3rd line shut down center he is so good at. Would have solidified the top 6 and allowed chemistry to develop. Augh. whatever

Bennett not developing into a top 6 centre in Calgary.
Monahan becoming a peripheral player.
Calling a rebuild 'done' after 2 seasons.

This is what killed them.

 

[TheHudlinator]

What killed the rebuild was the Hamilton trade imo. While good value it made it so we would not be drafting top 10 again but we didn't have a plan in net and still lacked enough weapons up front. We then missed out on some crazy good players falling in the following draft. While we were able to grab a couple good players for Hamilton they aren't on the level of some of those players we could have taken. All of that combined with never finding a coach who was even as good as Hartley left us stuck in no man's land, not good, not bad, just mostly irrelevant. It feels like being in post 2004 Sutter again, our best hope is sneaking into the playoffs and having a magical run we just don't have the star player that Iggy or Kipper where then.

 

[Mobiandi]

The Hamilton and Hamonic trades plus hiring 3 straight dud coaches is what killed this group. Five unforced errors

 

[Rubi]

The Hamilton and Hamonic trades plus hiring 3 straight dud coaches is what killed this group. Five unforced errors

The Flames traded a #12, #43, and #57th pick for Hamonic. Retaining those picks was not going to help the Flames build a SC contending team.
As for Dougie, he wasn't fitting in here and had to go. Who woulda figured that Lindholm and Hanifin would blossom so quickly here?... well more Lindholm than Hanifin but thats beside the point. We lost Fox but he was gone long before the trade.
Nah... I don't blame the Flames for pulling out of their rebuild, particularly after the 107 pt season in 2018-19. If I blame anyone, its the hockey gods. They teased up with good fortune in 2018-19 and then screwed us the following season.

 

[Dack]

The rebuild lasted 2 seasons. We went into the rebuild with a bad prospect pool after years of Sutter drafting poorly and trading picks. In the two rebuild years we didn't fall far enough to get a chance at the elite talent avaliable in either draft.

Pittsburgh picked top 2 in 4 straight drafts and got 2 generational centers in their rebuild before they began to vault towards contention. We got Sean Monahan and Sam Bennett. On top of that our GMs were unable to find a single NHL player with 2 late 1sts, 2 2nds, 2 3rds and a bunch if late round picks across those 2 drafts.

After that with Gaudreau breaking out we rode the P.D.O. pony to a playoff birth and ended the rebuild. Treliving made a move that seemed to improve the team now and in the future. Signaling the end of the rebuild. In hindsight, Treliving shouldn't have made this trade. The team wasn't ready and 2015 proved to be the deepest draft since 2003.

The Hamonic trade was far worse but the timing may have been less important. This team was young and looking to grow past being a bubble team. Treliving took anything that wasn't nailed down and traded it for an inconsistent #4. Wahlstrom or Dobson would be a big help right now. Honestly I think if Treliving just never traded a pick/picks for players from like 2014-2018 this team would be so much better.

 

[DFF]

When Zach Rinaldo and Joe Thornton are the cream , the FA well has dried up.

We’ll probably go to camp with what we have

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Habs fan over here, I have some tough decisions ahead for my fantasy hockey and I was looking for some input. What are your guys thought of the team going forward, I have Markstrom in one of my keepers and I'm on the fence about protecting him. 1) Do you see him getting back to the kinds of performance we saw in VAN? 2) Do you see him getting most of the starts with the acquisition of Vladar, 55ish starts? 3) With the weak division, do you think the Flames will do good this year? 4) I also own Gaudreau, he did produce down the stretch but under Sutter, his upside is close to 60ish points rather than PPG I would assume?

Thanks in advance

 

[Fig]

Habs fan over here, I have some tough decisions ahead for my fantasy hockey and I was looking for some input. What are your guys thought of the team going forward, I have Markstrom in one of my keepers and I'm on the fence about protecting him. 1) Do you see him getting back to the kinds of performance we saw in VAN? 2) Do you see him getting most of the starts with the acquisition of Vladar, 55ish starts? 3) With the weak division, do you think the Flames will do good this year? 4) I also own Gaudreau, he did produce down the stretch but under Sutter, his upside is close to 60ish points rather than PPG I would assume?

Thanks in advance

We might end up doing really good, or really bad. Your guess is as good as ours.

 

[DomBarr]

Bennett not developing into a top 6 centre in Calgary.
Monahan becoming a peripheral player.
Calling a rebuild 'done' after 2 seasons.

This is what killed them.

The worst thing for this franchise was the fluke playoff run in 2015 when realistically with that roster they should have been competing for tank champion for McDavid and or Eichel...
It allowed them to think they were a Dougie Hamilton away from being decent,

 

[Volica]

The Hamilton and Hamonic trades plus hiring 3 straight dud coaches is what killed this group. Five unforced errors

I've seen this a bunch of times lately.
With hindsight being 20/20, but you make this trade every time you can.

Like, I know now we can look back and say 'well, the 2015 draft was super deep!' but leading up to this; who wouldn't make this trade:

Derek Forort, Ryan Spooner, Phil Lane for Dougie Hamilton
JT Miller, Marcus Granlund, Miikka Salomaki for Dougie Hamilton
Codi Ceci, Anthony Stolarz, teddy Bluerger for Dougie Hamilton
Ryan Pulock, Nick Sorensen, Justin Bailey for Dougie Hamilton
Dylan Larkin, Brett Pullock, Maxim Letunov for Dougie Hamilton
Luke Kunin, Chad Krys, Wade Alisson for Dougie Hamilton
Erik Brannstrom, Alex Texier, Luke Martin for Dougie Hamilton

That is 2010-2017 equivalents to this trade.

In a vacuum, outside of a vacuum, in a tornado, in an aquarium; you make this trade 9/10 times and come out ahead. The problem is, it just so happened that this was the 1/10 times you don't.

Sucks, but I honestly think the Hamonic trade was more egregious than getting a 22 year old defender. At 22, he's not the cherry on the top, he's one of the main ingredients.

 

[DFF]

I've seen this a bunch of times lately.
With hindsight being 20/20, but you make this trade every time you can.

Like, I know now we can look back and say 'well, the 2015 draft was super deep!' but leading up to this; who wouldn't make this trade:

Derek Forort, Ryan Spooner, Phil Lane for Dougie Hamilton
JT Miller, Marcus Granlund, Miikka Salomaki for Dougie Hamilton
Codi Ceci, Anthony Stolarz, teddy Bluerger for Dougie Hamilton
Ryan Pulock, Nick Sorensen, Justin Bailey for Dougie Hamilton
Dylan Larkin, Brett Pullock, Maxim Letunov for Dougie Hamilton
Luke Kunin, Chad Krys, Wade Alisson for Dougie Hamilton
Erik Brannstrom, Alex Texier, Luke Martin for Dougie Hamilton

That is 2010-2017 equivalents to this trade.

In a vacuum, outside of a vacuum, in a tornado, in an aquarium; you make this trade 9/10 times and come out ahead. The problem is, it just so happened that this was the 1/10 times you don't.

Sucks, but I honestly think the Hamonic trade was more egregious than getting a 22 year old defender. At 22, he's not the cherry on the top, he's one of the main ingredients.

Yeah but one could argue that it makes Treliving think that’s how to build the team and do it again and we got Hamonic. Turned a good thing into a bad thing lol

 

[Fig]

The worst thing for this franchise was the fluke playoff run in 2015 when realistically with that roster they should have been competing for tank champion for McDavid and or Eichel...
It allowed them to think they were a Dougie Hamilton away from being decent,

That year had a playoff mandate which is ridiculous because we were running 1C Stajan, pre-mesh Backlund and sophomore Monahan and rookie Gaudreau (who was supposed to be Baertschi taking the reins).

We were supposed to be a favourite to draft CMD. What we achieved is what the Oilers were supposed to have achieved. This isn't a pure Burke/Treliving thing. I still keep beating the drum that it was an owners mandate thing.

 

[DomBarr]

That year had a playoff mandate which is ridiculous because we were running 1C Stajan, pre-mesh Backlund and sophomore Monahan and rookie Gaudreau (who was supposed to be Baertschi taking the reins).

We were supposed to be a favourite to draft CMD. What we achieved is what the Oilers were supposed to have achieved. This isn't a pure Burke/Treliving thing. I still keep beating the drum that it was an owners mandate thing.

The Hamilton trade may have been an ownership/Burke thing but the playoffs were PURE fluke, that team should not have been able to smell the playoffs and yet the number of games that team came back from and ended up winning in the last minute or 2 of play or 3 on 3 OT was mind blowing

 

[Fig]

The Hamilton trade may have been an ownership/Burke thing but the playoffs were PURE fluke, that team should not have been able to smell the playoffs and yet the number of games that team came back from and ended up winning in the last minute or 2 of play or 3 on 3 OT was mind blowing

Cardiac Kids TM

 

[Mobiandi]

I've seen this a bunch of times lately.
With hindsight being 20/20, but you make this trade every time you can.

Like, I know now we can look back and say 'well, the 2015 draft was super deep!' but leading up to this; who wouldn't make this trade:

Derek Forort, Ryan Spooner, Phil Lane for Dougie Hamilton
JT Miller, Marcus Granlund, Miikka Salomaki for Dougie Hamilton
Codi Ceci, Anthony Stolarz, teddy Bluerger for Dougie Hamilton
Ryan Pulock, Nick Sorensen, Justin Bailey for Dougie Hamilton
Dylan Larkin, Brett Pullock, Maxim Letunov for Dougie Hamilton
Luke Kunin, Chad Krys, Wade Alisson for Dougie Hamilton
Erik Brannstrom, Alex Texier, Luke Martin for Dougie Hamilton

That is 2010-2017 equivalents to this trade.

In a vacuum, outside of a vacuum, in a tornado, in an aquarium; you make this trade 9/10 times and come out ahead. The problem is, it just so happened that this was the 1/10 times you don't.

Sucks, but I honestly think the Hamonic trade was more egregious than getting a 22 year old defender. At 22, he's not the cherry on the top, he's one of the main ingredients.

The Hamonic trade was ugly. Outside of some stretches in his 2nd season, he never got going here.

The Hamilton trade hurts because of the rumours that we were going to take Chabot with that pick.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Habs fan over here, I have some tough decisions ahead for my fantasy hockey and I was looking for some input. What are your guys thought of the team going forward, I have Markstrom in one of my keepers and I'm on the fence about protecting him. 1) Do you see him getting back to the kinds of performance we saw in VAN? 2) Do you see him getting most of the starts with the acquisition of Vladar, 55ish starts? 3) With the weak division, do you think the Flames will do good this year? 4) I also own Gaudreau, he did produce down the stretch but under Sutter, his upside is close to 60ish points rather than PPG I would assume?

Thanks in advance

1) Sutter likes his #1 goalie. He often over-uses them.
2) If Vladar doesn't stand on his head in his first appearance or two, figure 65+ starts for Markstrom.
3) Good is a relative term. Probably between 90 and 100 points but that may be enough for 2nd/3rd place.
4) Expect around ppg for Gaudreau. Even in a Sutter defensive system he was putting up similar numbers, once detached from injured Sean Monahan.

 

[Volica]

Yeah but one could argue that it makes Treliving think that’s how to build the team and do it again and we got Hamonic. Turned a good thing into a bad thing lol

It's crazy you'd have to describe it as:

• 22 year old defenceman, traded due to team issues, nearing 50p/season who could potentially be a top pair defender: Yes.
• 28 year old defenceman, who hasn't been 'great' in 3 years, and is trending downwards: No.

If I wasn't so sure that the 2022 and 2023 picks were going to be lotto picks, I'd be all for Treliving moving them for a top pairing potential Dman who turns 22

 

[NinjaTurtle]

When Zach Rinaldo and Joe Thornton are the cream , the FA well has dried up.

We’ll probably go to camp with what we have

At least the Flames can’t sign Rinaldo!