TSN: What's holding up Kopitar's new contract? (MOD WARNING) post #205

[meman]

From Bob McKenzie
http://www.tsn.ca/what-s-holding-up-kopitar-s-new-contract-1.399719

Click to read more...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Thanks for sharing!

But ugh, the closer to 10m/yr, the more I cringe. Unless signing the contract magically lifts the production piano off Kopitar's back.

 

[Ron*]

Just what we needed: another Kopitar thread.

I'm gonna just quote what I just posted in the other Roster (Kopitar) thread...

All this talk about Kopitar going away is pure nonsense. I really don't think you guys are thinking in terms of the real world and the realities of contract negotiations in this day and age.

Clearly he is going to resign here, and clearly if they gave Gaborik a 7-year deal at age 31 then they are most certainly going to give Kopitar an 8-year deal at age 28.

And it's going to be right around $10 million per year. That much is obvious. If the Kings offered him $9.75 million, then they most certainly will round it up to get the deal done. And my guess is it gets done by early December.

Come on, guys. Think. Let's get real here.

And stop complaining about Kopi "declining." Have any of you watched the past two games?

 

[Ron*]

Thanks for sharing!

But ugh, the closer to 10m/yr, the more I cringe. Unless signing the contract magically lifts the production piano off Kopitar's back.

Must be getting close. Two beautiful goals in the Carolina game (ironically, we lost) and that awesome "go get it Gaborik I'm gonna bounce this off the boards!" assist in the Florida game shows that maybe the stress of the contract negotiations are nearing an end.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Dean is just waiting for Kopitar to reach a certain assist/point plateau before plunging in, least that's my deduction based on his 4 helpers and 11 points in 21 games.

Those are solid numbers for a second line guy, not for Anze Kopitar.

 

[kingsfan]

No surprise. Kopitar could do virtually anything stats wise this year and DL is going to pay him $9+ for 8 years, as has been said all along by almost everyone not named Kings17. To let Kopitar go is to let the dream of a cup run go, even if signing him to a bloated contract kills the hope of a cup five years from now (or less).

Signing 27+ year old players is seemingly a necessary evil for teams and GM's, paying guys for the past and not the future, yet only the weaker (IE financially poor) teams actually let guys walk with any regularity.

I hate to envision where the Kings are going to be in five years, Toffoli scoring 30 goals and trying to drag along two plugs making $15 million in Brown and Kopitar. Hopefully Kopitar won't get there but Brown sure is.

 

[KINGS17]

No surprise. Kopitar could do virtually anything stats wise this year and DL is going to pay him $9+ for 8 years, as has been said all along by almost everyone not named Kings17. To let Kopitar go is to let the dream of a cup run go, even if signing him to a bloated contract kills the hope of a cup five years from now (or less).

Signing 27+ year old players is seemingly a necessary evil for teams and GM's, paying guys for the past and not the future, yet only the weaker (IE financially poor) teams actually let guys walk with any regularity.

I hate to envision where the Kings are going to be in five years, Toffoli scoring 30 goals and trying to drag along two plugs making $15 million in Brown and Kopitar. Hopefully Kopitar won't get there but Brown sure is.

You need to go into the Roster thread and see how many others are saying over a $9M AAV is a bad idea. I was the first to say it. Now there are others that agree.

Is this team a cup contender if Kopitar's game does not improve? I have my doubts. If the Kings are not cup contenders with Kopitar playing the way he has over the last 100 games or so, what is the point of paying top dollar to keep him on the roster?

 

[kingsholygrail]

I still think it's length not price that's holding it up.

 

[kingsfan]

You need to go into the Roster thread and see how many others are saying over a $9M AAV is a bad idea. I was the first to say it. Now there are others that agree.

Is this team a cup contender if Kopitar's game does not improve? I have my doubts. If the Kings are not cup contenders with Kopitar playing the way he has over the last 100 games or so, what is the point of paying top dollar to keep him on the roster?

As I said in my post, people are saying he will get it, not that he is worth it. There's a difference.

 

[Omni Owl]

Kopitar is simply not worth that much money, he's passed the apex of his career. It doesn't make any ****ing sense to sign him to a long term, high dollar deal.

 

[Trolfoli]

You need to go into the Roster thread and see how many others are saying over a $9M AAV is a bad idea. I was the first to say it. Now there are others that agree.

Is this team a cup contender if Kopitar's game does not improve? I have my doubts. If the Kings are not cup contenders with Kopitar playing the way he has over the last 100 games or so, what is the point of paying top dollar to keep him on the roster?

Let me help you out here. Everyone knows it's a bad idea. If the window is going to stay open for 1 to 2 more years that's the cost.

I'd also like to point to the Ducks. They had a bunch of guys from last year that were going to get bigger contracts and the shipped them off for cheaper replacements. How'd that work out?

 

[Buddy The Elf]

I actually have been encouraged by Kopitar's play this year. He has 7 goals and even though his point totals are down, I'd argue a lot of that has to do with line mates as lot of people have suggested lately. That and he could easily rack up 4 or 5 assists in a couple of games if Gaborik or someone else gets hot. The fact that he is scoring goals and has been going to the middle of the ice more makes me not care about the point totals. I still think that $10M is too much but I recognize that DL is probably going to pay it. The bottom line is if the kings end up with another stanley cup while he is under contract, it will have been worth it. For that reason alone, I think it's worth it in both the short and long term. Doughty and Kopitar are the kings' Toews and Kane.

 

[Winger23]

Let me help you out here. Everyone knows it's a bad idea. If the window is going to stay open for 1 to 2 more years that's the cost.

I'd also like to point to the Ducks. They had a bunch of guys from last year that were going to get bigger contracts and the shipped them off for cheaper replacements. How'd that work out?

Which is exactly what the kings will have to do with this terrible contract.

Unless they can dump 1 or 2 guys on similar bad contacts looch is gone too.

 

[Ron*]

Kopitar is simply not worth that much money, he's passed the apex of his career. It doesn't make any ****ing sense to sign him to a long term, high dollar deal.

It's the market that determines worth. And believe me, if he doesn't get it from Los Angeles, someone else will step up and pay the man.

If you are working at McDonald's, yes you are right. It's not worth to sign him up for an 8-year deal. But this isn't McDonald's. This is the NHL. He's going to get paid. And I would say it is highly likely that he is going to get paid by the Kings.

So, it really is time to move on from this discussion.

But I have a feeling we will have Kopitar VI, Kopitar VII, Kopitar VIII, etc. Because that's just how this board rolls.

 

[Winger23]

It's the market that determines worth. And believe me, if he doesn't get it from Los Angeles, someone else will step up and pay the man.

If you are working at McDonald's, yes you are right. It's not worth to sign him up for an 8-year deal. But this isn't McDonald's. This is the NHL. He's going to get paid. And I would say it is highly likely that he is going to get paid by the Kings.

So, it really is time to move on from this discussion.

But I have a feeling we will have Kopitar VI, Kopitar VII, Kopitar VIII, etc. Because that's just how this board rolls.

Just because the market determines worth it does not mean it makes sense for the Kings to sign him to that amount and term. Rangers ended up getting Brad Richards, and every single fan on this team is happy that he didn't end up signing with the Kings, yet that was market value for him too.

In a world with no cap or if it was expected to continue to rise heavily over the next few years i would sign him at the higher price no doubt about it. I don't see how giving someone that much money for 40-60 point seasons makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[Mike Carr]

It's the market that determines worth. And believe me, if he doesn't get it from Los Angeles, someone else will step up and pay the man.

If you are working at McDonald's, yes you are right. It's not worth to sign him up for an 8-year deal. But this isn't McDonald's. This is the NHL. He's going to get paid. And I would say it is highly likely that he is going to get paid by the Kings.

So, it really is time to move on from this discussion.

But I have a feeling we will have Kopitar VI, Kopitar VII, Kopitar VIII, etc. Because that's just how this board rolls.

if money is a big part for Kopi, I would ask him his thoughts on a sign and trade. If we pay him over 8.5 I cannot see that we can have/keep the pieces around him to keep us a contender. We would likely lose Looch and maybe Mcnabb this year and next year maybe Pearson or TT (Or we lose other good players to sign TT)

 

[Ron*]

if money is a big part for Kopi, I would ask him his thoughts on a sign and trade. If we pay him over 8.5 I cannot see that we can have/keep the pieces around him to keep us a contender. We would likely lose Looch and maybe Mcnabb this year and next year maybe Pearson or TT (Or we lose other good players to sign TT)

Unfortunately, there is no sign-and-trade provision in the NHL like there is in the NBA. That option isn't available to teams and/or players in the current CBA.

 

[Ron*]

Just because the market determines worth it does not mean it makes sense for the Kings to sign him to that amount and term. Rangers ended up getting Brad Richards, and every single fan on this team is happy that he didn't end up signing with the Kings, yet that was market value for him too.

In a world with no cap or if it was expected to continue to rise heavily over the next few years i would sign him at the higher price no doubt about it. I don't see how giving someone that much money for 40-60 point seasons makes any sense whatsoever.

You are forgetting the Kings' history in contract negotiations. The team almost always gives the player what they want or they let them walk. I haven't seen a middle ground, ever. You can argue the Quick, Voynov, and Toffoli deals were advantageous to the Kings, but if the players were not in agreement those deals don't get done.

You are citing the Brad Richards' contract but that isn't relevant to this discussion. Richards was a free agent coming from the outside; Kopitar has spent his entire career with the Kings and we are talking about an extension, not a free agent signing. And you are also forgetting about the Kings' identity. The Kings are Kopitar and Kopitar is the Kings. There is no doubt in my mind that he is going to get signed, and signed soon. After giving long-term deals to Brown and Gaborik, no way this doesn't get done for Kopitar as well.

 

[Ron*]

I actually have been encouraged by Kopitar's play this year. He has 7 goals and even though his point totals are down, I'd argue a lot of that has to do with line mates as lot of people have suggested lately. That and he could easily rack up 4 or 5 assists in a couple of games if Gaborik or someone else gets hot. The fact that he is scoring goals and has been going to the middle of the ice more makes me not care about the point totals. I still think that $10M is too much but I recognize that DL is probably going to pay it. The bottom line is if the kings end up with another stanley cup while he is under contract, it will have been worth it. For that reason alone, I think it's worth it in both the short and long term. Doughty and Kopitar are the kings' Toews and Kane.

I agree. Kopitar has actually been heating up in the last few games and so are his line mates. If he keeps this up, we are going to get cricket noises in threads like these.

 

[damacles1156]

I agree. Kopitar has actually been heating up in the last few games and so are his line mates. If he keeps this up, we are going to get cricket noises in threads like these.

Even at another 65-70 point season Kopitar is not worth 8 years at 9.0+ million.

At that cap hit, Kopitar will impact the roster negatively as soon as next season.

Then when Toffoli/Pearson are due raises, someone like Muzzin/A-Mart will have to be shipped out to pay for those guys.

The Kings better win the Cup this season or next, with Kopitar making that much money, for that ridiculous contract length.

Or, Dean Lombardi better find a way to dump Dustin Brown, Or hope Gabo retires.

 

[damacles1156]

The next CBA will be another war, this time over Contract length.

The GM's always trying to save themselves, from themselves.

Steven Stamkos has no extension(and he is a more dynamic Center than Kopi) also younger than Kopi, I would imagine the Tampa owner doesn't want to write that check.

 

[Ron*]

Even at another 65-70 point season Kopitar is not worth 8 years at 9.0+ million.

At that cap hit, Kopitar will impact the roster negatively as soon as next season.

Then when Toffoli/Pearson are due raises, someone like Muzzin/A-Mart will have to be shipped out to pay for those guys.

The Kings better win the Cup this season or next, with Kopitar making that much money, for that ridiculous contract length.

Or, Dean Lombardi better find a way to dump Dustin Brown, Or hope Gabo retires.

I guess you really haven't read the posts I made above.

I will repeat myself: The market determines worth. He's going to get paid. Your limit of "not 8 years" or "not at 9.0 + million" is an artificial limit and has nothing to do with market value nor reality in terms of contract negotiations. Of course he is worth that, since he is going to get that.

If you guys want to just come out and say you don't want Kopitar, I wish you (not necessarily you, but any poster) would just come out and say, "I don't want Kopitar." Put it to rest. He is going to get paid, whether you like it or not. Either by the Kings or someone else. But he is going to get paid. That much is clear.

 

[damacles1156]

I guess you really haven't read the posts I made above.

I will repeat myself: The market determines worth. He's going to get paid. Your limit of "not 8 years" or "not at 9.0 + million" is an artificial limit and has nothing to do with market value nor reality in terms of contract negotiations. Of course he is worth that, since he is going to get that.

If you guys want to just come out and say you don't want Kopitar, I wish you (not necessarily you, but any poster) would just come out and say, "I don't want Kopitar." Put it to rest. He is going to get paid, whether you like it or not. Either by the Kings or someone else. But he is going to get paid. That much is clear.

Sure he will get paid, and if the Kings pay north of 9.0 million, they will regret it. It is, what it is.

With the cap being so stagnated. Teams are regretting these high dollar, max length contracts IE. (Dustin Brown).

It's probably why Stamko's extension is taking so long.

 

[KINGS17]

I don't want Kopitar at a $9M+ AAV, because his production doesn't warrant that high of an AAV. There done. Happy Ron? I suppose tulips were once worth crazy money too, but there is a thing called the "bigger fool".

Now, why? I don't think the Kings are cup contenders with Kopitar making that kind of money because Dean can't go out and get the kind of supporting cast that is required to win cups. It also limits his ability to dump a bad contract, because he won't be able to retain cap hit in a trade involving a bad contract.

Additional why? As much as you refuse to see it, Kopitar is in decline. He apparently does nothing special in his off season program to keep him at an elite level. Up to this point he has been able to rely on his genetics to be a great player. Those days are coming to an end, and based on what we saw last season and at the beginning of this season, I think once the decline in his play starts in earnest, it will be quite rapid.

If Kopitar insists on stupid money, and Dean can trade him for a player like Galchenyuk or Jones, then I am for moving him.

 

[onlyalad]

I still think it's length not price that's holding it up.

I think it is the opposite
When the owners thought the cap was going to go up every year, they signed guys to 10 million deals in the belief that they would have cap space in the future. Now that the cap is stagnant or even shrinking, it makes it hard to sign guys to those amounts.