What would you be willing to trade to acquire Jack Eichel?

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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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It's simple enough. Around here a nuclear rebuild where you invest all your trust in players who have never played in the NHL is considered safe, while investing in guys who have already dominated the NHL is considered dangerous.
By this logic, we can solve our #1C woes by going out and signing Sergei Fedorov. Or perhaps luring Wayne Gretzky away from TNT.

Some of us do not like the odds of Eichel potentially not bouncing back, given the prices involved.
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
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In the long run I might be proven wrong to think this, but I’m one who’s glad we didn’t get Eichel.
 
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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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Gotta believe some of the trepidation comes from Eichel's injury. Neck problems can be debilitating, and life long. I know people that have multiple suregeries and the pain they deal with is bad. How about an elite player moving around at 25-30 mph and constantly crashing?
Yes. This. Absolutely, 100%, completely and totally and utterly this. You get a cookie.

320px-Choc-Chip-Cookie.jpg


It is a constant and unceasing source of astonishment to me that some people keep seeming to assume that Eichel's neck problems are No Big Deal, just a silly dispute between player and org. This shit is severe.
 

LJ7

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Mar 19, 2021
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It is a constant and unceasing source of astonishment to me that some people keep seeming to assume that Eichel's neck problems are No Big Deal, just a silly dispute between player and org. This shit is severe.
Look I'm not a doctor, I'm not a neck expert, but MMA fighters and non NHL hockey players have gotten ADRs and been completely fine. Plus him and his team have sought 40ish second opinions from doctors (per Eichel's agent on Jeff Marek's show), so I trust he'll be fine. Vegas team doctors seem to think he'll be fine, and since the Jackets were thrown in as an interested team by reporters, I assume our doctors thought he'd be fine as well. Also the doctor Marek had on his show seemed to think Eichel will be fine. They all know far more than me so I take their word for it.

The risk of him never being the same is there, but I have a lot more trouble believing the current crop of centers and our center prospects can get us to a Stanley Cup as opposed to Eichel being healthy and good enough to do so for us.
 

CoachWithNoTeam

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Jul 1, 2006
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The biggest issue for me here in fielding a competitive offer is that I wouldn’t want to offer any of our next three 1sts, which was probably a must for Buffalo. Otherwise I don’t think parting with a Tuch and Krebs type players would have been a major concern for us.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,851
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Look I'm not a doctor, I'm not a neck expert, but MMA fighters and non NHL hockey players have gotten ADRs and been completely fine. Plus him and his team have sought 40ish second opinions from doctors (per Eichel's agent on Jeff Marek's show), so I trust he'll be fine. Vegas team doctors seem to think he'll be fine, and since the Jackets were thrown in as an interested team by reporters, I assume our doctors thought he'd be fine as well. Also the doctor Marek had on his show seemed to think Eichel will be fine. They all know far more than me so I take their word for it.

The risk of him never being the same is there, but I have a lot more trouble believing the current crop of centers and our center prospects can get us to a Stanley Cup as opposed to Eichel being healthy and good enough to do so for us.
Pardon me; when I made that post I was feeling a tad expasperated. I'm not saying that his neck situation means he's a total Do Not Touch; I'm just saying that it is a factor that I feel cannot be dismissed. So it's down to a balancing of risk factors, as these things always are, and whether or not the trade possibility makes sense depends on how much weight one gives to each risk. You, and presumably majormajor, and some others don't seem to put as much weight on the neck issue as, say, I would. That's fine. I'm just saying, don't act or post like it's an inherently obvious nonissue.

(Of course, the corresponding thing for me is "don't act like it's THE issue that renders all else moot", but, again, I was a bit exasperated when I wrote that post. :D I'll try to do better.)
 

LoneFunyan

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Nov 11, 2015
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I don't think many people were in the camp of saying "firsts in the future are better than the best version of Jack Eichel".

The consensus was "Jack Eichel has an injury that could be career-diminishing and comes with legitimate questions lingering over his attitude." When you put that together, along with what we most likely would had to have given up (which is of course an unknown), it's not a simple equation.

Let's say the price would have been Sillinger, Jenner, one of the three Russians, 1st this year (higher of ours v. Chicago) and a 3rd.

The Russian add is to balance out the difference in value between Tuch and Jenner (who is older and likely perceived as "lesser" than Tuch)
The "higher of the two" stip on the first is to cover the dreaded "same conference" problem.

Now you're losing the leadership of Jenner to bring in a guy who may have attitude issues, and you're giving up two high firsts (Sillinger being one) for a guy who may be Jack Eichel, or maybe Jack Eichel 2.0, now with Decreased Mobility!

Picks and prospects are risks. This trade, for this player, was also a risk.
 
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LoneFunyan

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Nov 11, 2015
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MMA fighters and non NHL hockey players have gotten ADRs and been completely fine. .

How many have gotten ADRs and been completely not fine? Those aren't the ones who get uplifting press coverage.
 

tunnelvision

Registered User
Jul 31, 2021
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I never understood why Eichel was seen here as scarier than rolling with Boone Jenner, 18 year old Sillinger, whatever Jack Roslovic is..
I have a lot more trouble believing the current crop of centers and our center prospects can get us to a Stanley Cup as opposed to Eichel being healthy and good enough to do so for us.
What were the actual alternatives?

"Try to win with Eichel" vs "Try to win with current players, prospects and picks we'd have to lose to get Eichel"

or was the debate more precisely...

"Try to win with Eichel" vs "Try to win with assets we will use any way possible other than trading for Eichel"
 

pled

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Sep 7, 2009
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By this logic, we can solve our #1C woes by going out and signing Sergei Fedorov. Or perhaps luring Wayne Gretzky away from TNT.

Some of us do not like the odds of Eichel potentially not bouncing back, given the prices involved.
some have to pay the odds too. even if they aren't nhl worthy anymore.
 

LJ7

#80
Mar 19, 2021
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Pardon me; when I made that post I was feeling a tad expasperated. I'm not saying that his neck situation means he's a total Do Not Touch; I'm just saying that it is a factor that I feel cannot be dismissed. So it's down to a balancing of risk factors, as these things always are, and whether or not the trade possibility makes sense depends on how much weight one gives to each risk. You, and presumably majormajor, and some others don't seem to put as much weight on the neck issue as, say, I would. That's fine. I'm just saying, don't act or post like it's an inherently obvious nonissue.

(Of course, the corresponding thing for me is "don't act like it's THE issue that renders all else moot", but, again, I was a bit exasperated when I wrote that post. :D I'll try to do better.)
Yeah that makes more sense. For me if our team doctors think Eichel will be completely fine after the ADR then the perceived "risk" becomes an opportunity to get a star center at a discount. I simply don't know if the Eichel risk is that dodgy, but I know for sure that trying to fill out the center position via prospects is a massive risk. As you said it's all about the weights of these risks and how we interpret them from the outside looking in.
 

LJ7

#80
Mar 19, 2021
1,938
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What were the actual alternatives?

"Try to win with Eichel" vs "Try to win with current players, prospects and picks we'd have to lose to get Eichel"

or was the debate more precisely...

"Try to win with Eichel" vs "Try to win with assets we will use any way possible other than trading for Eichel"
We'll see what happens but star 1Cs rarely become available.
 

Cowumbus

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Mar 1, 2014
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Krebs is maybe worth Johnson, certainly less than Sillinger at this point.
Not that it matters to your argument (which I agree with) but “your bias” is showing.

By this logic, we can solve our #1C woes by going out and signing Sergei Fedorov. Or perhaps luring Wayne Gretzky away from TNT.

Some of us do not like the odds of Eichel potentially not bouncing back, given the prices involved.
@majormajor was not suggesting anything like that. That’s a straw man argument. It’s more similar to when Stamkos got injured, if someone tried to trade for him hoping he would return to form post broken leg.

I agree with you that I do not think it is worth the risk to get him though.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Not that it matters to your argument (which I agree with) but “your bias” is showing.



I'm giving my opinion, not sure what would be more or less biased. I always had Sillinger ahead of Johnson, but even if I didn't, I would recognize that you take the bird in the hand. We now know that Sillinger can hack it, we're not sure if Johnson or Krebs can.
 
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JacketsDavid

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Jan 11, 2013
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To me it seems very much like Rick Nash and his time in Columbus (now honestly Eichel is a better overall player than Nash). They both wanted the C, neither probably showed much of work ethic in practice (not a "follow me" guy") to get the best from their team mates. Both were the most talented and best players on their teams but it didn't work.
I think Vegas got a steal. It's also important (IMO) that Eichel won't have to be the star.
 

koteka

Registered User
Jan 1, 2017
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Even if Eichel fully recovers, every time he gets checked or goes down the tunnel during a game or takes a maintenance day, people in Vegas will be wondering “How is the neck?” That would be nerve-racking.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,851
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40N 83W (approx)
@majormajor was not suggesting anything like that. That’s a straw man argument. It’s more similar to when Stamkos got injured, if someone tried to trade for him hoping he would return to form post broken leg.

I agree with you that I do not think it is worth the risk to get him though.
Obviously it's a strawman. Just pointing out that sometimes these things end careers, much like the inexorable march of time will often do. ;)

(And honestly, I'd have been less concerned about Stamkos's leg than I am about Eichel's neck, but that's getting off into silly tangents.)
 

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
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My read on it is that Eichel went for dimes on the dollar. Could anyone have imagined him being moved for what he was at this time last season?

Surgery risk certainly reduced his value and-I'll stick to my guns on this-attitude/good teammate issues also played a role in the modest return Buffalo received.

If I'm a Vegas fan, I'd have to say that this was a great trade-even if it doesn't ultimately pan out. The upside possible return on this is very high for the VGK.

Wild Bill back to Columbus when Eichel is back in action?:naughty:
 

DarkandStormy

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Apr 29, 2014
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Wonder if Vegas sold low on Krebs a la Suzuki?

Whenever they all get healthy, Pacioretty-Eichel-Stone may very well be the best line in the NHL. Of course, the latest is that Stone may be LTIR'd for the entire regular season. That may be how they get cap compliant. Long term, it looks like they may not be able to keep Reilly Smith unless they can pay someone (Arizona) to take Dadonov off their hands.

Eventually, the Expansion Draft will stop paying dividends for them. Tuch was given to them so they'd draft Haula from Minnesota. Unbelievable how different their draft went from Seattle's.
 
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majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Obviously it's a strawman. Just pointing out that sometimes these things end careers, much like the inexorable march of time will often do. ;)

(And honestly, I'd have been less concerned about Stamkos's leg than I am about Eichel's neck, but that's getting off into silly tangents.)

Technically I think the argument was appeal to extremes (argumentum ad extremum / reductio ad absurdum), not a strawman.
 
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Cowumbus

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I'm giving my opinion, not sure what would be more or less biased. I always had Sillinger ahead of Johnson, but even if I didn't, I would recognize that you take the bird in the hand. We now know that Sillinger can hack it, we're not sure if Johnson or Krebs can.
I’m talking about the statement that he is viewed as more valuable than Krebs or Johnson around the league - which based off on NHL pundits/outlets rankings, is probably not true. And idk how much you have watched of Krebs, but he very well might end up the best of the bunch. He ‘fell’ to 17th only because of his injury, and historically VGK have had a great eye for finding talent in the first round.

We know Sillinger can hack it after 9 games? Do you not remember Filatov, Dano or the like?

* I am relatively confident that Sillinger has a floor that keeps him in the NHL though.

^ regarding the above, it’s really not relevant to the original argument so feel free to ignore.
 
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majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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I’m talking about the statement that he is viewed as more valuable than Krebs or Johnson around the league - which based off on NHL pundits/outlets rankings, is probably not true.

I suppose I should clarify - when I like or dislike a player comparison or a trade comparison, I'm speaking from how I would value them. It's not my "bias" that has me putting him ahead of Krebs and Johnson, it is my opinion that Sillinger is more valuable (not in terms of immediate trade value, but long term contributions as a hockey player). Krebs or Johnson could ultimately pass him but I'm taking the bird in the hand.

And idk how much you have watched of Krebs, but he very well might end up the best of the bunch.

Krebs is always doing something fancy every game I've seen him. But it's usually far from scoring areas and not that consequential, so I still have him in the "could be anything" category.

He ‘fell’ to 17th only because of his injury, and historically VGK have had a great eye for finding talent in the first round.

Like Brannstrom and Glass? The only NHL regular (so far) who was a Knights 1st rounder is Suzuki. (not meant to weigh against Krebs here). I am a fan of the Brisson and Dean picks.
 
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