What would it take to get Barrie extended this season?

[Patagonia]

I don’t think anyone here has or will argue that defending is the strongest part of his game. But he’s a pure gamebreaking talent and I just find it ridiculous people are willing to just throw him to the side.

Barrie plays ES or PP and consistently every season among the worst +/- on the team. He plays a sheltered game and scores points when he is given the opportunity.

He is NOT a game breaker and shutter every time on the ice when their playing in overtime.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

But here's a fun stat: since Tyson Barrie joined the team, 34 different guys have played defense for the Avs. Among those 34, Barrie is 2nd in total time on ice, 3rd in even strength time on ice per game, and 27th in shorthanded time on ice per game with an average of 0.23 seconds. Now take a moment and think about the horrendous defensive cores we have had since 2011 and think about how bad defensively you'd have to be to basically never get on the ice during a penalty kill.

Barrie is an elite offensive Dman, so lets put him out in heavy defensive situations on the PK! That'll really allow him to play to his strengths...


Jesus it's amazing how someone can lack an understanding of such a basic concept.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Wanting to trade him to teams who will overvalue him and give us great assets in return =/= throwing him to the side.

Also, the argument isn't whether defending is the strongest part of his game. The argument is whether he's good or bad defensively.

I’ve said on here before that I think he’s about average as a defender, maybe slightly below average. But when you have a player who’s capable of doing what he can do I just find it hard to just trade him. I mean if we could get a 1C or 1D for him than I’d trade him for sure. But I just don’t see that being feasible.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Barrie plays ES or PP and consistently every season among the worst +/- on the team. He plays a sheltered game and scores points when he is given the opportunity.

He is NOT a game breaker and shutter every time on the ice when their playing in overtime.

Yes. Yes he is. He’s one of the best offensive defenseman in the league and has an incredible amount of talent. So yes I’d say he is a game breaker.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Barrie plays ES or PP and consistently every season among the worst +/- on the team. He plays a sheltered game and scores points when he is given the opportunity.

He is NOT a game breaker and shutter every time on the ice when their playing in overtime.

You do realize PP/PK dont effect +/- right...


Oh my these boards some days are frightening to read through.

 

[MarkT]

Barrie is an elite offensive Dman, so lets put him out in heavy defensive situations on the PK! That'll really allow him to play to his strengths...


Jesus it's amazing how someone can lack an understanding of such a basic concept.

Honestly, f*** off with the condescension.

P.K. Subban has elite offensive skill and he plays the PK all the time. If someone *never* plays the PK in their entire career, it says something about their DEFENSIVE abilities, not their offensive abilities. The term "play to your strengths" is all about doing what you do best and avoiding what you're bad at. Barrie not good at the defensive (other team has the puck) part of playing hockey. All the stats I can find bear this out. Watching games bears this out. Frankly I'm a bit surprised people can be Avalanche fans, watch Avalanche games, and come to another conclusion.

 

[MarkT]

I’ve said on here before that I think he’s about average as a defender, maybe slightly below average. But when you have a player who’s capable of doing what he can do I just find it hard to just trade him. I mean if we could get a 1C or 1D for him than I’d trade him for sure. But I just don’t see that being feasible.

See now we're having a reasonable discussion. Average to below average defensively is a range I can work with. Then the question is, do you want to sign a guy long-term who will play in your top four but be average to below average defensively. My personal philosophy of team building is I don't want any defensemen in my top 4 who are below average defensively unless they're on a really good deal and we can spend that money making up for their lack of defensive ability.

 

[Raucherhusten]

I love the 7x7 Barrie, hate the 8x8 one. Just saying.

 

[Miri]

Barrie has to have some magic attached to his name, cause this discussion ultimately always ends up revolving around him. Silly season and all that, i guess.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Honestly, **** off with the condescension.

P.K. Subban has elite offensive skill and he plays the PK all the time. If someone *never* plays the PK in their entire career, it says something about their DEFENSIVE abilities, not their offensive abilities. The term "play to your strengths" is all about doing what you do best and avoiding what you're bad at. Barrie not good at the defensive (other team has the puck) part of playing hockey. All the stats I can find bear this out. Watching games bears this out. Frankly I'm a bit surprised people can be Avalanche fans, watch Avalanche games, and come to another conclusion.

I think the issue is that you start to compare him with guys that are top 5-10 defenseman in the league and it’s clear that Barrie isn’t a top 5-10 defenseman in the league.

 

[ASmileyFace]

I think the issue is that you start to compare him with guys that are top 5-10 defenseman in the league and it’s clear that Barrie isn’t a top 5-10 defenseman in the league.

Agreed completely.

I'm curious... who does everyone think Barrie's closest comparable is in the rest of the league? I can't really think of anyone who is elite offensively but so mediocre defensively.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Agreed completely.

I'm curious... who does everyone think Barrie's closest comparable is in the rest of the league? I can't really think of anyone who is elite offensively but so mediocre defensively.

He’s kind of like a poor mans version of Letang? I guess? Idk really he’s incredibly incredibly unique.

 

[MarkT]

I think the issue is that you start to compare him with guys that are top 5-10 defenseman in the league and it’s clear that Barrie isn’t a top 5-10 defenseman in the league.

Here's a list of guys who have played a lot on the powerplay (top 50 in the NHL) and also played consistently on the penalty kill during Barrie's career (since 2011):

• Erik Karlsson
• Chris Pronger
• P.K. Subban
• Kris Letang
• Nicklas Lidstrom
• Oliver Ekman-Larsson
• Andrei Markov
• Joni Pitkanen
• Ryan Suter
• James Wisniewski
• Dustin Byfuglien
• Kimmo Timonen
• Drew Doughty
• Shea Weber
• Brent Burns
• Dan Boyle
• Brian Campbell
• Kevin Shattenkirk
• Mark Giordano
• Duncan Keith
• Dion Phaneuf
• Cam Fowler
• Alex Edler
• Niklas Kronwall
• Rasmus Risolainen
• Dennis Wideman
• Roman Josi
• Sergei Gonchar
• Christian Ehrhoff
• Sami Vatanen
• Justin Faulk
• Alex Pietrangelo
• Aaron Ekblad

 

[MarkT]

Agreed completely.

I'm curious... who does everyone think Barrie's closest comparable is in the rest of the league? I can't really think of anyone who is elite offensively but so mediocre defensively.

Jake Gardiner?

 

[Patagonia]

He’s kind of like a poor mans version of Letang? I guess? Idk really he’s incredibly incredibly unique.

Letang is much better than Barrie defensively.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Here's a list of guys who have played a lot on the powerplay (top 50 in the NHL) and also played consistently on the penalty kill during Barrie's career (since 2011):

• Erik Karlsson
• Chris Pronger
• P.K. Subban
• Kris Letang
• Nicklas Lidstrom
• Oliver Ekman-Larsson
• Andrei Markov
• Joni Pitkanen
• Ryan Suter
• James Wisniewski
• Dustin Byfuglien
• Kimmo Timonen
• Drew Doughty
• Shea Weber
• Brent Burns
• Dan Boyle
• Brian Campbell
• Kevin Shattenkirk
• Mark Giordano
• Duncan Keith
• Dion Phaneuf
• Cam Fowler
• Alex Edler
• Niklas Kronwall
• Rasmus Risolainen
• Dennis Wideman
• Roman Josi
• Sergei Gonchar
• Christian Ehrhoff
• Sami Vatanen
• Justin Faulk
• Alex Pietrangelo
• Aaron Ekblad

And Barrie is better offensively than almost every player on that list.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Letang is much better than Barrie defensively.

“A POOR mans Letang”

 

[MarkT]

And Barrie is better offensively than almost every player on that list.

And what exactly does being good offensively have to do with whether or not a player plays on the penalty kill? That list proves that many, many, many players do both.

 

[ASmileyFace]

Here's a list of guys who have played a lot on the powerplay (top 50 in the NHL) and also played consistently on the penalty kill during Barrie's career (since 2011):

• Erik Karlsson
• Chris Pronger
• P.K. Subban
• Kris Letang
• Nicklas Lidstrom
• Oliver Ekman-Larsson
• Andrei Markov
• Joni Pitkanen
• Ryan Suter
• James Wisniewski
• Dustin Byfuglien
• Kimmo Timonen
• Drew Doughty
• Shea Weber
• Brent Burns
• Dan Boyle
• Brian Campbell
• Kevin Shattenkirk
• Mark Giordano
• Duncan Keith
• Dion Phaneuf
• Cam Fowler
• Alex Edler
• Niklas Kronwall
• Rasmus Risolainen
• Dennis Wideman
• Roman Josi
• Sergei Gonchar
• Christian Ehrhoff
• Sami Vatanen
• Justin Faulk
• Alex Pietrangelo
• Aaron Ekblad

This list is basically worthless in analysis. I'd much rather see the list of players who've played similar PP numbers but little to no PK.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Keith Yandle maybe, back when he was good. Or why not Shatty?

 

[MarkT]

Keith Yandle maybe, back when he was good. Or why not Shatty?

Shatty plays PK, for one.

 

[The Abusement Park]

And what exactly does being good offensively have to do with whether or not a player plays on the penalty kill. That list proves that many, many, many players do both.

I know. But most of those guys are or were #1 guys. Barrie isn’t. Again I’m not saying we should keep him because he’s a defensive stalwart. I want him because he’s a gamebreaking talent.

 

[MarkT]

This list is basically worthless in analysis. I'd much rather see the list of players who've played similar PP numbers but little to no PK.

The purpose of this list is to prove that it's not just elite defensemen who play both powerplay and penalty kill.

 

[MarkT]

I know. But most of those guys are or were #1 guys. Barrie isn’t. Again I’m not saying we should keep him because he’s a defensive stalwart. I want him because he’s a gamebreaking talent.

I think the issue is that you start to compare him with guys that are top 5-10 defenseman in the league and it’s clear that Barrie isn’t a top 5-10 defenseman in the league.

The purpose of this list is to prove that it's not just elite defensemen who play both powerplay and penalty kill.

 

[The Abusement Park]

How am I moving the goalposts? I’ve said he’s an elite offensive defenseman and nothing special defensively.