What would happen if there is no OHL season?

Status
Not open for further replies.

BadgerBruce

Registered User
Aug 8, 2013
1,559
2,195
Gold education packages guarantee 4 years post-secondary. Players on the roster also have tuition/expenses covered if attending post-secondary while a member of the team that doesn't come out of their scholarships. Not sure if that applies if there's no games played, but they are signed to the team technically.
Yup. Gold packages guarantee the scholarship at the point of signing. But keep in mind that teams are only allowed to have 7 of these “on the books” at any one time, which includes former and current players.

For the rank and file OHLer, no post-OHL scholarship funding was accrued for the 2020-21 season.
The “on the current roster” players who are in school have the fees covered by the team this year. That’s required. It doesn’t technically eat into their post-OHL scholarship, but we should remember that the post-OHL scholarship is only good for “one program of study,” so if a player somehow completes 2 years of a 4 year post-secondary program while he’s an active player, his post-OHL scholarship is limited to the next 2 school years/remaining time in the program.

My point was that a typical 2003 birth year kid who puts in 4 years in the league will only accrue 3 years of scholarship funding because he didn’t earn any funding this year, which means his team didn’t accrue any additional funding obligation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tarantula

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Yup. Gold packages guarantee the scholarship at the point of signing. But keep in mind that teams are only allowed to have 7 of these “on the books” at any one time, which includes former and current players.

For the rank and file OHLer, no post-OHL scholarship funding was accrued for the 2020-21 season.
The “on the current roster” players who are in school have the fees covered by the team this year. That’s required. It doesn’t technically eat into their post-OHL scholarship, but we should remember that the post-OHL scholarship is only good for “one program of study,” so if a player somehow completes 2 years of a 4 year post-secondary program while he’s an active player, his post-OHL scholarship is limited to the next 2 school years/remaining time in the program.

My point was that a typical 2003 birth year kid who puts in 4 years in the league will only accrue 3 years of scholarship funding because he didn’t earn any funding this year, which means his team didn’t accrue any additional funding obligation.
Very strong chance the rank and file OHLer isn't going to leave the league early. It would most likely be those with gold packages, but what happens to the education package if they say the contract has been breached?
 

beast mode

Registered User
Oct 27, 2020
101
51
A kid with a gold package can quit playing hockey after 1 game played and is entitled to his full 4 year scholarship. Teams give it usually when they’re pretty certain the kid will play pro after his Junior years so they don’t have to honour the deal...
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
A kid with a gold package can quit playing hockey after 1 game played and is entitled to his full 4 year scholarship. Teams give it usually when they’re pretty certain the kid will play pro after his Junior years so they don’t have to honour the deal...

I would think if it was deemed to be a frustrated contract and its determined to be null and void you wouldn't be able to say you still want benefits from it.
 

hanshin44

Registered User
Mar 17, 2017
140
114
Frankly they just need to call the season and stop pretending there is a likelihood of it resuming. Borders won't be open by the end of this year.
 

NOA

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
3,157
1,506
I think those decisions would more than likely be a collective discussion between the AHL/NHL teams. If the NHL team believed a player would be better served to play in the WJC they would let the player do that. There have been a few players that have fallen under that lately. These CHL players that have performed well in the AHL this year who still have CHL eligibility. I can see there being a discussion about whether or not they should have to come back to the CHL for 21-22.

The larger discussion point can be why should 18-19 year olds be limited in what they can earn in the CHL as compared to the AHL? The NCAA has changed the game with the NIL (Name Image Likeness) and how athletes in college can now make money based off of jobs, promotion etc.. The CHL/OHL has a lot of thinking to do moving forward. Athletes can easily make a fair chunk of change in 6 months by playing college hockey and getting a nice side gig from an alum that runs a billion dollar enterprise. The CHL doesn't have those connections right now, and doubtful they ever do.

Yes the NCAA has advanced and made it a much more attractive choice. But college hockey athletes in America are NOT close or near the equivalent of football or basketball players.

At a school like Michigan, football is bringing in about 60-65% of their annual athletics department money. They also get to spend about 25% of the budget each year and there are dozens of sports to pay for. The hockey program at Michigan meanwhile brings in? Less than 1%..or about 3 million per year

The highest revenue earning department seems to be Boston University at 8 million per year, followed by Wisconsin at about 5 million

So yes while the top hockey programs are more stable than the overall top of the CHL, there are only a handful of programs that actually make legit revenue. When you consider that these programs must offer full ride scholarships valued at roughly 200-300k (if a player stays for 4 years) then that is where majority of this revenue is going

Technically speaking these college kids are already making money off that revenue with free rides. And I can tell you that there are LIMITED amounts of players that would actually be able to make real money off their name/likeness. The US doesn’t value college hockey. It is a not a regular feature on ANY television program. Most people don’t care and so most college hockey players will never benefit from name/likeness any more than what OHL players already are and have been able to benefit off of (i.e. doing advertisements or signing endorsements or contracts with companies).

What would potentially become a bigger issue is if the US ever fixes their rising cost of education in this country. If public universities like Michigan become significantly cheaper (which is a high topic of conversation in this country) then theoretically college programs will have more revenue to dish out on their players rather than using that money to pay for their scholarships/academic funds

What the CHL needs to do is change their approach. This entire COVID PR situation was flat out embarrassing and handled poor from the jump. Like it’s pathetic how bad they botched their PR here. Branch and company need to go imo.

The CHL needs to focus more on increasing their fan support. I don’t pretend to know how but they should be hiring new minds to help them advance their approach. Maybe it’s through TV/media deals. Maybe it’s through changing their current structure to enhance rivalries. Maybe it’s through hosting the Memorial cup in some fresh cities. Idk do something. Do multiple things. They may also need to adjust their age structure and the limits they have on OAs/Imports. What about allowing teams to hold 3 imports? Why not. Would potentially increase some talent that comes over here
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,760
6,928
The Provincial government has already announced that money is being provided to the OHL for education packages

Yes but that $$$ is to pay for current expenses, not obligations levied against current scholarship accumulation.
 
Last edited:

MatthewsMoustache

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
2,819
2,274
What the CHL needs to do is change their approach. This entire COVID PR situation was flat out embarrassing and handled poor from the jump. Like it’s pathetic how bad they botched their PR here. Branch and company need to go imo.

The CHL needs to focus more on increasing their fan support. I don’t pretend to know how but they should be hiring new minds to help them advance their approach. Maybe it’s through TV/media deals. Maybe it’s through changing their current structure to enhance rivalries. Maybe it’s through hosting the Memorial cup in some fresh cities. Idk do something. Do multiple things. They may also need to adjust their age structure and the limits they have on OAs/Imports. What about allowing teams to hold 3 imports? Why not. Would potentially increase some talent that comes over here

I think it’s hockey as a whole, from the NHL down that needs to focus on the fan support. Basketball is starting to become more and more prevalent everywhere because from the NBA down it is a far more progressive sport in terms of player’s and their personalities and allowing them to express themselves. Hockey is stuck in 1950 and watching an interview with any of those players is like watching paint dry because that’s how they’re taught to be or else they’ll upset the dinosaurs running the NHL teams and they’ll never make it.
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,760
6,928
Yes the NCAA has advanced and made it a much more attractive choice. But college hockey athletes in America are NOT close or near the equivalent of football or basketball players.

At a school like Michigan, football is bringing in about 60-65% of their annual athletics department money. They also get to spend about 25% of the budget each year and there are dozens of sports to pay for. The hockey program at Michigan meanwhile brings in? Less than 1%..or about 3 million per year

The highest revenue earning department seems to be Boston University at 8 million per year, followed by Wisconsin at about 5 million

So yes while the top hockey programs are more stable than the overall top of the CHL, there are only a handful of programs that actually make legit revenue. When you consider that these programs must offer full ride scholarships valued at roughly 200-300k (if a player stays for 4 years) then that is where majority of this revenue is going

Technically speaking these college kids are already making money off that revenue with free rides. And I can tell you that there are LIMITED amounts of players that would actually be able to make real money off their name/likeness. The US doesn’t value college hockey. It is a not a regular feature on ANY television program. Most people don’t care and so most college hockey players will never benefit from name/likeness any more than what OHL players already are and have been able to benefit off of (i.e. doing advertisements or signing endorsements or contracts with companies).

What would potentially become a bigger issue is if the US ever fixes their rising cost of education in this country. If public universities like Michigan become significantly cheaper (which is a high topic of conversation in this country) then theoretically college programs will have more revenue to dish out on their players rather than using that money to pay for their scholarships/academic funds

What the CHL needs to do is change their approach. This entire COVID PR situation was flat out embarrassing and handled poor from the jump. Like it’s pathetic how bad they botched their PR here. Branch and company need to go imo.

The CHL needs to focus more on increasing their fan support. I don’t pretend to know how but they should be hiring new minds to help them advance their approach. Maybe it’s through TV/media deals. Maybe it’s through changing their current structure to enhance rivalries. Maybe it’s through hosting the Memorial cup in some fresh cities. Idk do something. Do multiple things. They may also need to adjust their age structure and the limits they have on OAs/Imports. What about allowing teams to hold 3 imports? Why not. Would potentially increase some talent that comes over here

You are correct with respect to changing their approach to target market. Right now it is geared towards kids and families. The reason for this is the cost and how it is comparable to other family activities.

They need to start to market the players better but as many have suggested, if they start to market the players (as future stars), is it then opening the door for challenging the Amateur scholastic athlete designation? I don’t know but it is possible.

The NHL in newer markets market their stars. People identify with elite athletes and find a connection with them. The OHL has a huge problem being able to make that connection. First, they only have elite star level athletes for very short periods of time. It is hard to market an elite 16 year old that was just drafted and if they can and the player is elite, the player is likely not int he league the full 4 years.

For this reason, the league generally markets the teams and entertainment to go against other entertainment options like going to movies. They offer family package offers. They make connections to Minor hockey and do groups and mini-games. The kids come so the parents also come with them. But, most parents could care less under that sort of promotion.

For smaller communities, the concept works much better because the entertainment options are less and the Team is much higher profile. But in larger markets, the teams have a tendency of getting buried behind a plethora of other entertainment options. Look at all of the GTA area teams and how they struggled. They had no high profile identity.

But, again, it all comes down to amateur student athlete designation. How do you promote it without promoting the individual star players? It is hard.

Can you get millennials to spend 3 hours at a hockey game? The attention span is typically not there. Gen Z people have even less of an attention span. They won’t invest the time unless it is something they truly love to do. How do you build that sort of engagement?

In the end, I agree the league needs to find a way to better connect with people that have a higher level of disposable income and make it a higher profile activity where people feel like going to an NHL game is stupid by comparison when you consider the comparative cost. The value is there but not for everyone.

I will be interested to see what the league does next season to reconnect with their fan base while also trying to grow their fan base.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NOA

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Yes but that $$$ is to pay for current expenses, not obligations levied against current scholarship accumulation.

Correct, and in the context of my post, no player is losing out on education. The current accumulation has been sitting in the fund this whole time. The government money (for the 17 Ontario teams) goes towards current education expenses for the lost year.
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,760
6,928
Correct, and in the context of my post, no player is losing out on education. The current accumulation has been sitting in the fund this whole time. The government money (for the 17 Ontario teams) goes towards current education expenses for the lost year.

OK. I understand that the money is already in the scholarship fund and that money is used to pay out the scholarships as they are used. When you say it goes towards education expenses for the lost year, what does that mean? Is it the expenses for current players attending University etc where the teams don’t have the money coming out of the fund... aka, a current player that goes to University and the team pays for that education directly?

As far as I am aware, if a current player has education expenses while playing with their team, the team pays those expenses directly. It doesn’t come out of the fund. If that is the case then are teams paying education expenses for current roster players attending school this season? I’m not talking about players using their scholarships who have graduated from the OHL. As you said, those players are paid out of the fund.
 
Last edited:

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
OK. I understand that the money is already in the scholarship fund and that money is used to pay out the scholarships as they are used. When you say it goes towards education expenses for the lost year, what does that mean? Is it the expenses for current players attending University etc where the teams don’t have the money coming out of the fund... aka, a current player that goes to University and the team pays for that education directly?
My interpretation is that the money provided by the provincial government goes directly into the fund.
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,760
6,928
My interpretation is that the money provided by the provincial government goes directly into the fund.

Interesting. I wonder how they calculate that and which players (other than Gold Packages) benefit from that fund considering they did not play this season. Unless, of course, they projected playing half the season and the money went to cover the forecasted amount required to be deposited... I wonder if there is a delay on the deposits. For example, the league waits until the following season to determine which layers require the money and they deposit it then or do they do it as they play and it is accumulated regardless of whether they end up using it.
 

beast mode

Registered User
Oct 27, 2020
101
51
I would think if it was deemed to be a frustrated contract and its determined to be null and void you wouldn't be able to say you still want benefits from it.

Again my point is that with gold packages the years played don’t matter.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history

stormtracker

Registered User
Apr 29, 2006
823
93
Guelph
Otto gives us the latest update. Looks like it's time to lower the casket into the ground. That is really disappointing for draft eligible and last year players.
 

MatthewsMoustache

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
2,819
2,274


So MacLeod says that they reached a plan but it was scrapped due to the public health worsening. But she also said she is still open to a bubble format. So did the return to play plan they reached not include a bubble/hubs?
 

AttackSound

Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
Aug 25, 2016
2,267
985
Owen Sound, Ontario


Agreements and talks are all nice to talk about to spend time in limbo but let's be honest here the OHL isn't coming back this year.

Maybe the fall of 2022-23 if everything plays out well with health and safety protocols and vaccines but we won't see any OHL this year not with the province sliding backwards with Covid-19 cases.
 

AttackBeacher

Registered User
Feb 1, 2019
883
700
I remember back in March when Lisa said that a third wave wouldn't impact the return to play.

I can only imagine what its like working with her. Goalposts always moving.

'

'MacLeod said the new COVID-19 variants and fears of a third wave shouldn’t impact the return date of the league’s already delayed season, given the protocols that are being finalized, and that the goal is a 20-plus game season'

What changed, if the protocols were so good that a third wave wouldn't matter? I'm guessing not a thing. OHL did what she asked and still didn't get it moving forward.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: OMG67 and Otto

MatthewsMoustache

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
2,819
2,274
I remember back in March when Lisa said that a third wave wouldn't impact the return to play.

I can only imagine what its like working with her. Goalposts always moving.

'

'MacLeod said the new COVID-19 variants and fears of a third wave shouldn’t impact the return date of the league’s already delayed season, given the protocols that are being finalized, and that the goal is a 20-plus game season'

What changed, if the protocols were so good that a third wave wouldn't matter? I'm guessing not a thing. OHL did what she asked and still didn't get it moving forward.


She seems very inconsistent. Every time they take steps forward she moves the goal posts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad