What would a defenceman have to do to win a Hart trophy?

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Would need to carry a garbage team to playoffs, be in top 5 scoring, have a massive plus/minus at the very least.
Bar is very high for goalies and defenceman to get this award.

 

[Bank Shot]

Would need to carry a garbage team to playoffs, be in top 5 scoring, have a massive plus/minus at the very least.
Bar is very high for goalies and defenceman to get this award.

The bar is not exactly low for forwards either.

You are competing against 700 players.

Forwards make up about 2/3rds of that pool.

The best players, at least in Canada, also tend to gravitate towards the center position as youth hockey players so that's another built in advantage for forwards.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He would have to hit 90+ points.

 

[Voight]

Pronger in 2000 was the last to do it and Burns in 2017 was the closest since

Lot of points, strong +/-, weak team that makes the playoffs, media attention

Same thing as a forward winning it, but obviously a much higher standard

Actually he wasn't.

Lidstrom in 2008 was closer, both placed 4th but Lidas had a higher % of the vote.

 

[Voight]

Pronger in 2000 was a bit of anomaly.

Jagr would have easily won MVP had he played a full season. He finished 2nd, despite missing 1/4 of the season and scored 96 points. Would have hit 120 IMO and he played the extra 19 games.

Pronger finished with. 68.28%, while Jagr finished extremely close with 68.10%. A couple votes one way or the other and 68 takes it, even with missing so many games.

The rest of the forward group wasn't overly impressive, Jagr still won the scoring title with 96 points, then you had Bure w/ 94 and Recchi w/ 91. So despite the other two playing more games, they still couldn't close the gap which I think really hurt their chances at getting any Hart votes.

 

[SML2]

Too much going against a Dman for this to happen. If a guy was in position, people would point to the goalie or the coaching system. You'd have to be so head and shoulders above the rest, like Orr was, for this to happen now.

 

[PunkRockLocke]

The Hart has become a pretty useless trophy. The fact that Dmen rarely get considered proves this. The best defensemen in the league are as good and valuable, if not more, than the best forwards.

 

[GodEmperor]

Write a better song than National Anthem

 

[joe dirte]

In a league where a forward who puts up 100 points is a strong contender. What kind of performance would it take from a defenceman?

90 points? A +/- of 70? Win the Art Ross?

I'm looking for an exact statistical performance by a the defenceman that will guarantee the hart.

What would they have to do? Be the best player in the league.

What would that take? Probably 70+ points while being a rock defensively. Think drew doughty with 10 to 15 more points.

 

[Not So Mighty]

Honestly, the criteria to win the Hart is so inconsistent and grey that I kind of hate the trophy. To me, MVP means a player that drags their team to the playoffs. I mention this because you are asking for specific statistics and I really think having tunnel vision on a single player and his stats alone is a bad way to award the award.

That said, recent history shows he'd have to win the Art Ross or be the runner up and maybe the fact he's defenseman will sway it in his favor.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What would they have to do? Be the best player in the league.

What would that take? Probably 70+ points while being a rock defensively. Think drew doughty with 10 to 15 more points.

I feel like you'd have to take Drew Doughty's last couple of seasons and the mythos that comes with it--i.e. can't just be stellar defensively out of nowhere--AND add 25 points. I don't think anything less than 80 would get it done.

 

[torniojaws]

Thats not how the Hart trophy works tho...

Well, in theory. But in practice, of the 94 times the Hart has been awarded, it has been won by a Forward for 73 times (77,6 %), by a Dman 13 times (13,8 %) and a Goalie 8 times (8,5 %).

 

[GreatGonzo]

People need to understand that as valuable as defensemen are, they aren’t as valuable as forwards. That’s why it’s been rare. No one is getting shafted, just no defensemen have stood out or been more valuable. Sure there are teams where the Defenseman was their best player, but that doesn’t automatically make them the most valuable.

I mean I don’t see how any defenseman has been better than any of the last Hart winners. Even in 2017, Burns and EK were not more valuable than McDavid.

 

[jaric1862]

Depends on what type of year the forwards are having. If it was last year, i think that they would need to have like 85+ points, Exceptional +/-, and make the playoffs.

 

[hamzarocks]

Tomas chabot would need to win the norris and carry the sens into playoffs. Then he would get the hart and maybe lindsay

 

[TheMule93]

If Karlsson couldn't win it two seasons ago, then I'm not sure it will ever happen again

 

[Agent Zub]

People need to understand that as valuable as defensemen are, they aren’t as valuable as forwards. That’s why it’s been rare. No one is getting shafted, just no defensemen have stood out or been more valuable. Sure there are teams where the Defenseman was their best player, but that doesn’t automatically make them the most valuable.

I mean I don’t see how any defenseman has been better than any of the last Hart winners. Even in 2017, Burns and EK were not more valuable than McDavid.

I saw with my own eyes Karlsson handedly out play Spezza and still get less Hart trophy votes

 

[Sojourn]

I saw with my own eyes Karlsson handedly out play Spezza and still get less Hart trophy votes

Doesn't surprise me. I think part of that is that it's easier to evaluate forwards, statistically, when you aren't seeing as much of them. For defensemen, it's much more difficult, and even with all the statistics used there is still so much you really need to see to really appreciate what they're doing.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I saw with my own eyes Karlsson handedly out play Spezza and still get less Hart trophy votes

That’s your opinion. You can’t hold your opinion above the voters just because you feel you saw a more valuable player. In the end Karlsson was only 21 and an up in comer. Besides both didn’t receive any first place votes, while Spezza had 2 second place. Was in unfair? Sure, but it was one year.

You can discredit the Hart trophy just because your favorite players don’t place higher than you would like, or you can just see it for how it is.

 

[Agent Zub]

That’s your opinion. You can’t hold your opinion above the voters just because you feel you saw a more valuable player. In the end Karlsson was only 21 and an up in comer. Besides both didn’t receive any first place votes, while Spezza had 2 second place. Was in unfair? Sure, but it was one year.

You can discredit the Hart trophy just because your favorite players don’t place higher than you would like, or you can just see it for how it is.

lol ask any senators fan

 

[GreatGonzo]

lol ask any senators fan

I understand where your coming from....but the difference is 6 and 8. Both didn’t receive any significant votes for top 3. Either way, trashing an award because you feel that year was such a significant loss for EK makes no sense.

 

[Agent Zub]

I understand where your coming from....but the difference is 6 and 8. Both didn’t receive any significant votes for top 3. Either way, trashing an award because you feel that year was such a significant loss for EK makes no sense.

where did i say it was significant. the point was that Karlsson vastly outplayed Spezza that year. being better defensively and only scoring like 4 less points. and spezza still managed to get more Hart trophy votes.

it's clearly biased towards forwards.

 

[hector morrison]

In a league where a forward who puts up 100 points is a strong contender. What kind of performance would it take from a defenceman?

90 points? A +/- of 70? Win the Art Ross?

I'm looking for an exact statistical performance by a the defenceman that will guarantee the hart.

Some kind of BS that year...How Pronger wins over Lidstrom or even Bure is a head scratcher! For a Dman to win is near impossibility given the number of offensive stars around the league. It would need to be a Bobby Orr type season.

 

[GreatGonzo]

where did i say it was significant. the point was that Karlsson vastly outplayed Spezza that year. being better defensively and only scoring like 4 less points. and spezza still managed to get more Hart trophy votes.

it's clearly biased towards forwards.

Or he didn’t “out play” him as much as you
Thought? He finished 4th in the league in points and 9th in assists while putting up 34 goals respectively. I understand EK won the Norris that season, but again.....value is subjective, and it’s not like Spezza blew him away in the voting poll. Doesn’t show any bias. EK hasn’t been more valuable than others have to their teams....picking one year doesn’t prove any sort of bias.

 

[tarapoto]

He would have to be a top 2 dman who plays for the Oilers and not be a minus player. That should do it.