What would a defenceman have to do to win a Hart trophy?

JeremyTB

Registered User
Mar 16, 2007
4,997
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Paul Coffee would have in 1983-84 if not for Gretzky. He scored 40 goals that season and had 126 points. He was 2nd in scoring.
 

connormcmuffin

Registered User
Feb 17, 2018
1,080
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You're joking, right?

The Art Ross. The Rocket Richard. The Selke.

Poor forwards. There are just no awards for them.
The Art Ross and Richard aren't awards to judged, they are objective measures, they not real awards IMO, they are benchmarks.

The Selke? Maybe the dumbest award ever.

What is the MVP for forwards? The Hart, 'experts' judge the best.

Put in context your post is silly.
 

Agent Zub

Registered User
Jan 2, 2015
14,424
11,713
The Art Ross and Richard aren't awards to judged, they are objective measures, they not real awards IMO, they are benchmarks.

The Selke? Maybe the dumbest award ever.

What is the MVP for forwards? The Hart, 'experts' judge the best.

Put in context your post is silly.

what lol
 

neXis

Registered User
Jan 3, 2016
457
121
EK has a good shot this year, yeah I know the season hasn't started but if he tears the league a new one by putting up 80+ points like before, I think he will win the Hart. I think the media will even give it to him considering all the crap he's being going through since last year.
 

KPower

Registered User
Jan 17, 2012
9,337
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EK has a good shot this year, yeah I know the season hasn't started but if he tears the league a new one by putting up 80+ points like before, I think he will win the Hart. I think the media will even give it to him considering all the crap he's being going through since last year.
That’ll still put him 40 points behind your boy there in Edmonton.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290

Unless those points lends you an Art Ross or substantially eclipses your (kinda weak-ish) teammates, then no. When Pronger won his Hart Lidström outscored him by 11 points.

What could/should give a defenseman a Hart Trophy is a strong two-way game and dragging your team to the playoffs. Something like that.

You probably also have to be a leadership type player in a kinda stereotypical old fashioned outgoing way, and not a quiet guy like Lidström or Leetch.

An interesting historical view is actually Leetch. 1992 his team wins the PT and his forward teammate gets the Hart while outscoring Leetch by a whopping 5 points. In 1993 Leetch misses half the season, and Rangers misses the playoffs. 1994 he’s back in full swing again and Rangers wins another PT. And the Cup. And Leetch wins the CS.
 
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cg98

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
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The Art Ross and Richard aren't awards to judged, they are objective measures, they not real awards IMO, they are benchmarks.

The Selke? Maybe the dumbest award ever.

What is the MVP for forwards? The Hart, 'experts' judge the best.

Put in context your post is silly.
The Irony.
 
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Ciao

Registered User
Jul 15, 2010
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Toronto
In a league where a forward who puts up 100 points is a strong contender. What kind of performance would it take from a defenceman?

90 points? A +/- of 70? Win the Art Ross?

I'm looking for an exact statistical performance by a the defenceman that will guarantee the hart.
I dunno.

Win the Art Ross, the Norris, score 33 goals and 87 assists, take 125 minutes in penalties and lead the league in plus-minus with a +55. That might do it, as fantasy- like as that seems.

Nah. Who could ever do that?
 

connormcmuffin

Registered User
Feb 17, 2018
1,080
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The Irony.
Writers judge best defenseman Norris
Writers judge best goalie Vezina
Writers should judge best forward in the Hart

I know... real hard concept to get your head around but it's the internet and people like me answer to people like you.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
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Make my day.
Thats not how the Hart trophy works tho...

It kind of is, though in a defacto way. People spend their best Dman vote in the Norris, so they don't feel as obliged to cast it again for a Dman in the Hart. That makes it easier for them to go for a forward in the Hart, spread the awards around.

A Dman can with the Art Ross, and the Rocket as they are pure numbers trophy. It's not likely but they aren't forward trophies.


For a Dman to win, lots of points, very dominant defensively.
 
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GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
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South Of the Tank
It’s more luck than anything.

In 2000, Jagr missed 19 games and still finished very close second. Along with other stars missing significant games like Sakic, Lindros, and Forsberg.

The blues also had injury issues with Turgeon and MacInnis. His +52 with 62 points was just insane, as well as it being the best +/- in the league. He lead his team in assists, As well as leading the league in short handed and total TOI.
 

rojac

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Apr 5, 2007
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Writers judge best defenseman Norris
Writers judge best goalie Vezina
Writers should judge best forward in the Hart

I know... real hard concept to get your head around but it's the internet and people like me answer to people like you.

Actually, the GMs vote for the Vezina not the writers.
 

Super Hans

Stats Evangelist
Oct 9, 2016
4,573
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Having a freakishly good season (top 5 scoring, solid defense) during another season of scoring like 2014-15 (Jamie Benn Art Ross 87 pts) without Price going into godmode. Think 1986 Lawrence Taylor freakishly good.
 

Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
15,384
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Montreal
Unless those points lends you an Art Ross or substantially eclipses your (kinda weak-ish) teammates, then no. When Pronger won his Hart Lidström outscored him by 11 points.

What could/should give a defenseman a Hart Trophy is a strong two-way game and dragging your team to the playoffs. Something like that.

You probably also have to be a leadership type player in a kinda stereotypical old fashioned outgoing way, and not a quiet guy like Lidström or Leetch.

An interesting historical view is actually Leetch. 1992 his team wins the PT and his forward teammate gets the Hart while outscoring Leetch by a whopping 5 points. In 1993 Leetch misses half the season, and Rangers misses the playoffs. 1994 he’s back in full swing again and Rangers wins another PT. And the Cup. And Leetch wins the CS.
Pronger was an intimidating physical presence. When that style of play was essential.

Kinda missing the point if all you're gonna do is compare point totals to lidstrom.
 
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cg98

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
2,778
3,667
Writers judge best defenseman Norris
Writers judge best goalie Vezina
Writers should judge best forward in the Hart

I know... real hard concept to get your head around but it's the internet and people like me answer to people like you.
And its people like me who tell you that your posts are actually silly.
 

Duke749

Savannah Ghost Pirates
Apr 6, 2010
47,750
22,632
Canton, Georgia
I would think you’d need a Crosby or McDavid type player be a defenseman instead of forward. The best players tend to play center
 

Jaguar God

Go Bruins!
Jun 19, 2018
1,462
1,226
Montreal
Messier was better.
Read up, kiddo: LCS HOCKEY - Hartless: How the 1989 Hart Voting Rewrote History
Bourque was robbed.

“Mark Messier claimed the 1990 Hart Trophy thanks to 10 western hockey writers banding together and leaving Ray Bourque off their ballots. Had just three of those pitiful protesters tossed Bourque a third-place vote, the Boston Bruins would have two Hart-winning defensemen.”

Also, judging by your username, I doubt you were even alive the last time either player was active.
 

McFlash97

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
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Now u want me to refer to a homer article from 1989 where the guy looks like he had a nasty obsession with Lemieux and Bourque . some random site with a moe joe , who basically wrote an essay that no one in 2018 gives 2 rats a×× about. Messier was the Oilers in 89, and his playoff run cemented his hart that year. Bourwue was amazing, Messier was too and was awarded the hart. Just another eastern hack. No one cares.
 

Jaguar God

Go Bruins!
Jun 19, 2018
1,462
1,226
Montreal
Now u want me to refer to a homer article from 1989 where the guy looks like he had a nasty obsession with Lemieux and Bourque . some random site with a moe joe , who basically wrote an essay that no one in 2018 gives 2 rats a×× about. Messier was the Oilers in 89, and his playoff run cemented his hart that year. Bourwue was amazing, Messier was too and was awarded the hart. Just another eastern hack. No one cares.
Who's Borwue?
 

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