Confirmed with Link: What to do with Trouba? (UPD: 1y/5.5m arb award)

[Belzebob]

What's your inside source that you know Trouba didn't negotiate for a long term contract? Maybe this has something to do with True North? We had the most players file for arbitration.

only life experience I guess. he sat out 15 games and would not let his agent discuss an extension, and now this.

he wants to force his way home. that is not the type of character I want on the team.

there is no indication this has anything to do with management.

players love it here

 

[DRW204]

What's your inside source that you know Trouba didn't negotiate for a long term contract? Maybe this has something to do with True North? We had the most players file for arbitration.

KO said in Sept 2016 there have been no negotiations b/w Trouba+co. and the Jets for several months apparently. From what i remember it was reported Chevy offered 6x5.5M contract at some point

Jets’ Jacob Trouba requests trade, says opportunity, not money, is the issue
Overhardt’s full statement can be read below:
“Our client, Jacob Trouba, will not be attending the Winnipeg Jets NHL training camp. Since May, we have been working with the Jets management in an effort to facilitate a trade of Jacob’s rights. Both parties continue to work on this matter.
There has been no negotiation regarding the terms of a contract between our client and the Jets over the course of the last several months. The situation is not about money; it is solely about our client having the opportunity to realize his potential as a right shot NHL defenseman.
To the Jets credit, the club has two outstanding right shot veteran defensemen and our client simply wants the opportunity to have a greater role. As a consequence of the Jets depth on the right side, we believe it is in both parties’ best interest to facilitate a mutually advantageous trade.

Our client has nothing but respect for the people and City of Winnipeg, the Winnipeg Jets, its fans, management and ownership – our desire to get him moved has everything to do with opportunity. We will continue to work with the Jets in good faith to achieve this end.”
Shortly after the request became public, Trouba told TSN’s Darren Dreger that he didn’t intend for the situation to come to the point of a public trade request, and he reiterated that the request has nothing do with the inability to reach financial terms on a new deal.
“To not play is not what I want,” Trouba told Dreger. “This has nothing to do with money…It never has.”

 

[sting13]

KO said in Sept 2016 there have been no negotiations b/w Trouba+co. and the Jets for several months apparently. From what i remember it was reported Chevy offered 6x5.5M contract at some point

Jets’ Jacob Trouba requests trade, says opportunity, not money, is the issue
Overhardt’s full statement can be read below:
“Our client, Jacob Trouba, will not be attending the Winnipeg Jets NHL training camp. Since May, we have been working with the Jets management in an effort to facilitate a trade of Jacob’s rights. Both parties continue to work on this matter.
There has been no negotiation regarding the terms of a contract between our client and the Jets over the course of the last several months. The situation is not about money; it is solely about our client having the opportunity to realize his potential as a right shot NHL defenseman.
To the Jets credit, the club has two outstanding right shot veteran defensemen and our client simply wants the opportunity to have a greater role. As a consequence of the Jets depth on the right side, we believe it is in both parties’ best interest to facilitate a mutually advantageous trade.

Our client has nothing but respect for the people and City of Winnipeg, the Winnipeg Jets, its fans, management and ownership – our desire to get him moved has everything to do with opportunity. We will continue to work with the Jets in good faith to achieve this end.”
Shortly after the request became public, Trouba told TSN’s Darren Dreger that he didn’t intend for the situation to come to the point of a public trade request, and he reiterated that the request has nothing do with the inability to reach financial terms on a new deal.
“To not play is not what I want,” Trouba told Dreger. “This has nothing to do with money…It never has.”

That's two years old. We are talking about contract talks now.

 

[Belzebob]

That's two years old. We are talking about contract talks now.

well you know the old saying...….

those who do not learn from history, get screwed over twice

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wiebe seems to think Trouba will remain with the Jets this season in any case. His view is that this is a season that has the Jets as a real contender so they won't weaken their team by moving Trouba. His view is that they might consider moving him next summer, instead.

I hate to agree with Wiebe, but he is probably right.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Without knowing what is being offered this makes sense to me on the surface. The Jets are trying to win now and they still get to retain the asset and take another shot at the cup this season. Only TNSE really knows his current trade value, if they have a great offer then pull the trigger but short of that let’s go get a cup this year.

Hmmmmm ...... Didn't we do that this year? And it cost us a good prospect and a good pick. Where's our cup? Well next year will be different. We'll be stronger in, oh wait. Weaker in net, at RW and at C. OK, but we can throw more assets at it and win it this year for sure! Right?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Trouba is better than Dumba, and certainly was before Dumba's "breakout year". This deal has 3 RFA years versus only 2 UFA years (whereas JT only has 2 RFA years left).

It would seem to push JT closer to $7m AAV on a 5+ year deal.

Pretty sure Dumba and Trouba are the same RFA/UFA status.

 

[Belzebob]

Hmmmmm ...... Didn't we do that this year? And it cost us a good prospect and a good pick. Where's our cup? Well next year will be different. We'll be stronger in, oh wait. Weaker in net, at RW and at C. OK, but we can throw more assets at it and win it this year for sure! Right?

we were fine without statsny. pacing for 110pts

mason did nothing, so how is having helybuck signed a step back?

we have plenty of wingers.

the biggest reason I see that kept us from the cup final, was the difference in the routes taken.

did not vegas have a minimun of 3 days off between rounds?

did they not have a week off before the WCF?

did we not just finish a hit fest 7 game series against the preds?

and then we had 1 day off before vegas.

we ran out of gas

 

[DRW204]

That's two years old. We are talking about contract talks now.

My bad, having trouble following the bouncing ball.

 

[rehf]

we were fine without statsny. pacing for 110pts

mason did nothing, so how is having helybuck signed a step back?

we have plenty of wingers.

the biggest reason I see that kept us from the cup final, was the difference in the routes taken.

did not vegas have a minimun of 3 days off between rounds?

did they not have a week off before the WCF?

did we not just finish a hit fest 7 game series against the preds?

and then we had 1 day off before vegas.

we ran out of gas

No, it was Vegas was incredibly lucky and MAF played out of his mind. Don't think it had anything to do with that.

In regards to Trouba, at this point I think we see a 1 or 2 year deal. It's a shame this organization seems to value Myers over Trouba.

 

[Board Bard]

I can see Chevy -- who loves keeping his team together -- crossing his fingers and believing he can convince Trouba that he really, really likes it here and should stay on a low-ball deal, like he did with Frolik, with the same result.

 

[Belzebob]

No, it was Vegas was incredibly lucky and MAF played out of his mind. Don't think it had anything to do with that.

In regards to Trouba, at this point I think we see a 1 or 2 year deal. It's a shame this organization seems to value Myers over Trouba.

agreed that maf stood on his head and twirled like a ballerina. when he returned to historical average, Washington lit him up

but a week off to heal bumps and bruised, I think would of made a lot of differance in that series

 

[Cellee]

I am not mad at Trouba.

Just tired of his agent.

 

[Belzebob]

I can see Chevy -- who loves keeping his team together -- crossing his fingers and believing he can convince Trouba that he really, really likes it here and should stay on a low-ball deal, like he did with Frolik, with the same result.

shouldn't you be on a leaf thread somewhere glorifying awesome nostrils and the ringettes

 

[Board Bard]

shouldn't you be on a leaf thread somewhere glorifying awesome nostrils and the ringettes

So everyone you disagree with is a Leafs fan? Quite the world view you have.

 

[Belzebob]

So everyone you disagree with is a Leafs fan? Quite the world view you have.

I have seen lots of your posts

not much of a jet fan in my opinion.

chevy knows much better what is going to happen with trouba than any of us here do

but getting signed to a reasonable contract is not crossing your fingers and hoping.

I believe trouba is not worth more to this team than scheifele

so I would limit his contract to a similar % of cap

 

[kittiecarlyle]

I can see Chevy -- who loves keeping his team together -- crossing his fingers and believing he can convince Trouba that he really, really likes it here and should stay on a low-ball deal, like he did with Frolik, with the same result.

Except that is not what happened.

 

[ps241]

Hmmmmm ...... Didn't we do that this year? And it cost us a good prospect and a good pick. Where's our cup? Well next year will be different. We'll be stronger in, oh wait. Weaker in net, at RW and at C. OK, but we can throw more assets at it and win it this year for sure! Right?

Ye of little faith Mort

 

[PhilJets]

Lets go Trouba


5 yrs for 6M



You got 1 more big contract after, you can go home by then to Detroit, they might be good by that time already

 

[Tommigun]

What does this article say? GDPR prevents me from accessing it:
Face it: Trouba doesn't want to return

Can anyone write some of the main points? Thanks!

 

[Guffman]

Hmmmmm ...... Didn't we do that this year? And it cost us a good prospect and a good pick. Where's our cup? Well next year will be different. We'll be stronger in, oh wait. Weaker in net, at RW and at C. OK, but we can throw more assets at it and win it this year for sure! Right?

That’s kinda silly. Young teams become organically better each year and they got some valuable playoff experience to boot.

 

[jetdiehard]

Please, you don’t read Wiecek do you?
Mr Negative.

 

[Belzebob]

What does this article say? GDPR prevents me from accessing it:
Face it: Trouba doesn't want to return

Can anyone write some of the main points? Thanks!

pretty much exactly w3hat we have been talking about.

he is trying to force his way out

 

[None]

Reposting these from earlier in the thread because I think it shows the type of agent that Overhardt is. These articles paint the picture of a guy who staunchly disagrees with the current CBA and has taken a hardline stance in negotiations because of his disagreements with both the CBA, and the leaders of the player's union.

Blue Jackets John Davidson turns both barrels on Johansen's agent.
This is an important piece because when has any team ever gone on public record to lambaste an agent on how they negotiate? I think it implies that in a way Overhardt doesn't negotiate in good faith. In my opinion the comparable contracts for Trouba, both when he didn't sign the first time and now, are pretty clear-cut. Parayko and Dumba are both good comparisons to find the right value for Trouba's contract, and yet here we are waiting for the results of the arbitration hearing. The last time when he missed regular season games without arbitration rights there were other good comparable contracts from Rielly, Lindholm, Maata, Hamilton, and Jones.

Agents scratching their heads over Ryan Johansen's contract demands.
The repetitive nature of Kurt Overhardt's clients taking the same route to contract negotiations doesn't seem to be a coincidence.

This quote stands out from the agent:

"It flies in the face of all convention. I look at it almost like a lawyer dealing with a client in court. I would tell the player, ‘If you insist on taking this position, our chances of success are almost nil. I don’t like your chances at all and I’m under obligation to tell you that."
​

As said before, it's happened too many times to think that these players are all instructing Overhardt to negotiate the way he does. This doesn't make it the wrong way to negotiate necessarily, or make it wrong that these players are looking to maximize their earnings, but I think it shouldn't excuse them from the ire of fans for their efforts if they're doing it in a way that flies in the face of convention. In my opinion I think the issue Overhardt has is that the CBA as it is basically ensures that younger players who aren't extraordinary talents (the McDavid, Dahlin, Matthews, Laine, Eichel type players) aren't going to get paid the same rate as if they were unrestricted free agents because they don't have the leverage of a real offer sheet threat. There are great players in the league that deserve to get paid, but how many are team changing enough to swap 4x 1st round picks?


Player agents respond to talk of discontent with NHLPA leadership - Sportsnet
Latest NHLPA dispute described as a 'Witch Hunt' - Rick Westhead/TSN

These two sources to me are direct evidence that there's more to how Overhardt's negotiates than just the best interest of the player. It's like he has an axe to grind with the NHL, NHLPA, and the players who helped negotiate the past and current CBA's.

While not directly related to contract discussions, it is relevant to discussing Overhardt's reason for his approach to negotiations. At the end of the day should an agent really be influencing the Union for the players association? This group of agents apparently led by Overhardt were trying to undermine the union and have probably hurt their position in negotiations in the future when the CBA is due for renewal.
This is assuming that there actually is tangible discourse in the members of the NHLPA, if you go by what Allan Walsh claims in the articles above it's entirely agent driven, the question then becomes "whose interests is Kurt Overhardt actually representing?"


Tl;dr - I think Kurt Overhardt might be misleading his clients because of personal disagreements with either the idea of collective bargaining or disagreements with the the current head of the players' union. There's uncertain evidence that he and a few other agents have tried to lead a group of players to start a decertification movement in the NHLPA, which I think oversteps the bounds of a player agent.

 

[robertocarlos]

I hate to agree with Wiebe, but he is probably right.

And he got that from reading the smart posts on HF Jets. Not mine though.