What to do with Nurse?

[Giggli G]

I honestly don't see anything wrong with him at all. He's a 23 year old top 4 defenseman with great tools and epic toughness. Scores a lot of ES points. Makes some bad reads but not much more than others, and still has #2 D potential.

 

[CookiesAndMilk]

I'm not positive Nurse is overjoyed though at his relative standing here. His agent might be in his ear. I considered him part of the core but its pretty clear the Org isn't feeling that way. I think its very sad, but wouldn't surprise me if Nurse is gone before the season is out or in offseason. I don't see him being back next year in Chia world.

That would be really really dumb. I'm not high on him but what you wrote has Chia all over it and would be the worst possible outcome. I stand by my point, let's wait till the season is over and evaluate our D-situation again.

 

[TKB21]

Package him with a first rounder for a clear upgrade. Nurse doesn’t have the IQ to be anything more then a fringe #4 or a decent #5 Dman. He is god awful in the offensive zone.

 

[Little Fury]

Well, this turned into a long paragraph but as I was saying, even with all his flaws I wouldn't mind keeping Nurse. I think it's unlikely he ever becomes a top pair D but I think at least he could be a very serviceable and relatively cheap #4D for years to come, and that is still a very good thing to have on a team. Russell and Sekera aren't going to be here forever. Nurse is still young and him and Bouchard (or Larsson) could form a very good 2nd pairing for the next half-dozen years or so. So unless you have a clear replacement in line (like if Jones were to prove himself capable in a large sample size, or Sekera comes back healthy and plays at a very high level again, something that seems unlikely) it's rather pointless to move him.

The question is if he tops out as what he is, will other team's still be willing to a premium for him as opposed to now when there's still the possibility of him taking another step?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

With Sweeney scouting the BOA, I wonder if they'd move Krug for Nurse?

Next season:

Klefbom-Larsson
Krug-Bouchard
Russell-Sekera
Jones

I'd be down with that for next season. If we buy out Sekera then Russell moves to 3rd pairing RD.

This is less me being down on Nurse as it is me wanting more offense from the blueline.

 

[dustrock]

I wonder about this potential for Nurse people keep speaking about when he's 23 years old.

If someone can point me to 24 year old d-men who suddenly flipped a switch that would be great.

WYSIWYG with Nurse I think. Which is fine, but he tops out at 2nd pairing at the best.

 

[Coffey]

Package him with a first rounder for a clear upgrade. Nurse doesn’t have the IQ to be anything more then a fringe #4 or a decent #5 Dman. He is god awful in the offensive zone.

I’ve been giving him the benefit of the doubt for so long.
Then that kings game where he tossed the puck outside of the glass with 4 secs left.

Low IQ panic move.

 

[SaltNPeca]

My semi-joke comment is: Try him on the wing?

Honestly tho I would stick with him. D and G are not often "prime" in their early 20's. Prime Nurse should be decent defensively, good athleticism, great toughness, good offensively, and a great teammate. If we could get a solid veteran to pair with him in the Top4 (e.g. at the deadline) I think a lot of Nurse opinions will change. He is a part of the current core and has been thru a lot of the hard times. Hoping this team turns the corner I think you get a lot of loyalty & camaraderie from a core that came thru this kind of adversity.

 

[Ck1]

I think we need to be patient with nurse he is currently our youngest d-man on the roster at only 23. Many d-men don't hit there full potential till 25-26 give him some time under our new coaches and see how he grows

 

[Zaddy]

The question is if he tops out as what he is, will other team's still be willing to a premium for him as opposed to now when there's still the possibility of him taking another step?

Yeah that is a valid question, but I think if you're gonna move him then that's an offseason deal. The team can't afford to let him go while they're still in the hunt for a playoff spot and not knowing if Sekera can return to a decent level of play again.

But yeah, I think if you're gonna look to maximize on his value then you probably need to do it before next season starts. After this year he'll be at around 280 NHL GP and 24 years old. So there will still be some room for improvement and potential, but not as much as maybe a year ago, and a year later again he'll be 25 and have 360 NHL GP and at that point it seems rather unlikely that he'll take any major steps forward.

So yeah I think if you're gonna move him you kinda have to take that decision in the coming 2-4 months if you want to get full value for him. I can definitely see the temptation in moving him for a top6 forward.

I really want to see how Sekera looks when he gets back and up to speed though. If he can play like a top4 d or at least replicate the level of play that Darnell has been at this year, then we can afford to move Nurse. Next year could look like:

Klefbom-Larsson
Sekera-Russell
Gravel-Bouchard

That's probably better than what we've run this season so far. And you have guys like Jones, Benning and maybe Lagesson and Bear vying for spots as well. But it hinges on Sekera being able to play top4 minutes, otherwise it'll be very bad.

 

[FlameChampion]

Its a tough one at the moment. Nurse makes a lot of questionable decisions. Out of the top 4, it seems like Yawney has helped him the least. Now with Hitchcock coming it, pretty much every defenseman has improved other than Nurse. I still think you have to ride it out and evaluate him at the end of the season.

 

[CornKicker]

it wasnt a surprise that nurses best season was paired with Larsson. we need to find a similar version on larsson to play with Klef and let larsson/Nurse eat the harder minutes. it allows klef to play less top mins and play more offence.

 

[ujju2]

it wasnt a surprise that nurses best season was paired with Larsson. we need to find a similar version on larsson to play with Klef and let larsson/Nurse eat the harder minutes. it allows klef to play less top mins and play more offence.

Klef seems to be excelling with the top minutes though. A bit of a reduction of minutes might still be in order, but he should still be on our first pairing.

 

[CornKicker]

Klef seems to be excelling with the top minutes though. A bit of a reduction of minutes might still be in order, but he should still be on our first pairing.

i dont disagree, if its Klef and another top 4 RHD playing #1 mins and Nurse/Larsson playing the hard defensive mins it will benefit the whole team. whomever plays with Larsson is getting a boost. Nurse needs the boost Klef doesnt. If we get the Sekera that finished the season in the world championships we are going to be in a good spot come mid feb to finish the season.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

^ That depends on if Sekera can avoid tearing his ACL while getting his jersey on.

 

[PaPaDee]

I think we keep him for now. He's still a decent 2nd pairing guy, who has experience and brings the toughness element. His contract is also reasonable. A tougher decision might come when he's arbitration eligible.

 

[McDNicks17]

it wasnt a surprise that nurses best season was paired with Larsson. we need to find a similar version on larsson to play with Klef and let larsson/Nurse eat the harder minutes. it allows klef to play less top mins and play more offence.

He was actually playing much better before being put with Larsson last season.

His play took a significant dip with Larsson. Likely due to the increased quality of competition.

 

[FlameChampion]

it wasnt a surprise that nurses best season was paired with Larsson. we need to find a similar version on larsson to play with Klef and let larsson/Nurse eat the harder minutes. it allows klef to play less top mins and play more offence.

Problem is that so many people (not necessarily Oilers fans) just see Larsson as a average type of defensiveman. Pretty good defensively but not so great offensively.

People seem to think these type of defenseman are readily available and can be picked up because they are not offensive and not that great at skating.

But in reality, Larsson is a pretty damn effective defenseman. Guy is tough as nails and he has good hockey sense. I am not saying he is worth Hall but a player like he is pretty rare. I laugh at all the Leafs posters who seem to think hes a #4.

 

[bucks_oil]

Thanks to Cloned for making this thread I was just about to search for some ancient Nurse thread to unearth.

As for the opening question with the way he has played he's not part of the core for me anymore, but I'm not eagerly looking to move him, I could see him breaking either way into being a very solid #3 for a lot of years or a d-man who only really shines against weaker opposition, he won't necessarily stop making bad mistakes in a 3rd pairing role, but against that tier of opposition I'm quite confident he'll end up on the right side of the do you create more than you give up equation.

As for what his issues are I think really all boils down to decision making, physically I think he is highly capable of doing whatever is needed from him and he also has the tools to be a more than competent 2nd pairing d-man, doing everything you'd want out of a 2nd pairing d-man aside from running a powerplay.

So in kind of taking on that his only real issue is decision making you have to ask why is it poor? Is it because of...

• Lack of experience
• Lack of focus
• Low Hockey IQ
  
• Trying to do too much? (Play the hero)

Obviously he doesn't have a ton of experience with 227 NHL GP, often it takes a d-man 200 to 300 games to really settle into being the d-man they are capable of, but in looking at his mistakes I think quite a few are of the fundamental nature that I wouldn't blame on inexperience with his present number of games played. If it was more nuanced stuff or just making the occasional sub-optimal play when a higher percentage play was available I might lean towards inexperience, but stuff like vacating the front of the net when a potential one-timer option is available to chase a player who doesn't need to be chased is just a mistake you wouldn't want to see even a rookie make.

Does he suffer from a lack of focus? I'd say no, he is very mentally and emotionally engaged with the game and he does seem to have an intense level of focus. Though I will concede that maybe his focus isn't where it should be at times he can sometimes get too emotionally invested focusing more on winning the physical battles rather than the game at hand, he also might not be properly focusing on the small details that when compounded can make a big difference in how effective a player is at their job.

Is Nurse suffering from Low hockey IQ? That's hard to answer he seems more than sharp enough mentally to play hockey at a high level, but if he continues to struggle to become a stable reliable defender it may be something you just have to point at as an issue.

Is Nurse trying to do too much? I'd say absolutely yes, to me that is his most prominent shortcoming, he still hasn't shaken some junior habits and is trying to be a superhero out there too often and will often cheat off his assignment trying to give help defense to someone else creating a bigger problem than if he just tended to his own assignment. He also seems to have this compulsion that he always wants to be active and doing something trying to get on somebody and apply a measure of pressure to them, but any good defender knows there are times where it is better to let the game come to them and just try to be in the best position possible to deal with the problem at hand.

Good post. I don't agree with all of it, but some good points made.

Nurse reminds me of a young Eric Brewer. That Eric Brewer would fly up the ice, joining Weight on the rush. There was plenty to like. He also ended up playing a what, twenty year? career as a shutdown 2nd pairing kind of guy.

Nothing to scoff at, but not exactly what you'd have hoped for. With Nurse, we might be reaching that point... and I'm not overly bothered by it. His passing/vision may be so-so, to below average, but his skating is still very elite (I'm not seeing what others are complaining about). He's also better defensively now that Brewer was at the same age. He's also meaner. And a good team guy by all accounts. And a top-in-the-CHL scholastic player, so he WILL continue to learn at this level even if his "innate" hockey IQ is lower.

The bridge was a great play by Chia. I think either way Nurse is part of this team's future and with Bouchard on the way, he's a nice complement to what Nurse brings to a 2nd pairing. One guy to skate and intimidate, the other to cover the slot more quietly and break out with incisive passing.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

We won’t do it because of draft position and the built in expectation but I think we need to be honest and cut bait on Nurse and Puljujarvi before their value drops further and other teams catch on. If you package both I think we can get a solid return that will help us now rather than hoping either turn into anything more than a 6-7 dman and a 3rd-4th line forward they currently are.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'd stop flaming the young Defenceman that has had poor coaching, direction, and has had roles here like trying to prop up Benning. That gets huge minutes last season, punches cows, is the best D on the team last season, but then at Contract time he's told he's worth less than every other starting D on the team.

yeah, I'd probably stop dissing that guy. But that's what the board does here.

Identify a scapegoat and then full bore.

heres the list of core players here that are being drilled every day on this board;

Drai
Talbot
Nurse

The board should put out a program so people can keep track of the annual scapegoats. Its a tradition here after all.

Nurse was our best defender for 30ish games last year. After Christmas he was 5 on the team in almost every stat behind the Swedes, Russell and Benning.

He went into contract negotiations expecting and wanting a big contract based on 30 games. He isn't better than Klefbom, Larsson or even Russell so wanting more is a little silly. So he gets a show me bridge contact to show his worth and stick it to Chia but instead he has looked average at best every game, yeah you could blame Benning for some of that but now he is playing with Russell who is breaking his back carrying the play.

He got beat cleanly off the rush by f***ing Sam Bennett last night for God sakes and Nurse is supposed to be a good skater.

People keep saying he is a top 4 defender but right now he is proving he isn't . Ideally he would be playing bottom pairing minutes. With Gravel playing well, maybe you swap Nurse and Gravel for a bit, see if that helps.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The only way I think it would be smart to trade Nurse is when/if Caleb Jones has forced his way on to the team and/or Bouchard is ready to play top-4 minutes. Neither of which will probably happen before next season. I do have a deep-seated wish for Sekera to return when ready (and not rushed this time) and play like he did in 16/17, but let's be real, that's not likely going to be the case.

If Nurse were to be traded, this would have to pan out for us next season, IMO:
1st pairing:
Klefbom - Larsson -- they look like they're back to their form before the injury (Klef's shoulder) and devastating personal stuff (Larsson's father). No concerns here.

2nd pairing:
Russell - Bouchard -- if Russell keeps the way he's been playing, he can play 2nd pairing on my team any day of the week and twice on Sundays. He's been incredible. Easily the unsung hero of the team thus far, no contest. But you do have to hope age doesn't catch up to him in the next couple of seasons. If Bouchard is ready next season, that would be huge, but also asking a lot to play 2nd pairing minutes. Will he be able? This is unlikely to me, but again, I'm talking best-case scenario of things panning out.

3rd pairing:
Sekera - Benning -- if Sekera can even be just 80% of the player he was before the first injury, he'll be more than capable on the 3rd pairing and could be a boost to the 2nd PP unit (Bouchard being on the 1st). Benning has been outstanding every single game since Hitch came aboard. Looks promising, but still requires a longer stretch of his current play and being tested with more minutes to more accurately assess. But 3rd pairing isn't too concerning for me, given the play of Gravel, Benning and some of our upcoming prospects.

depth options:
Gravel, Jones, Bear, Persson, Lagesson -- Gravel has been everything you want in a depth/#6 Dman; Jones has been progressing very nicely; Bear has had some injury issues this season but easily has the potential to make and stick with the team eventually; Persson has arguably been a top-3 Dman in the entire Swedish hockey league for 2 seasons now -- he's a wildcard that could be a very nice surprise. Lagesson looked pretty good in pre-season, for what that's worth (not a heck of a lot), and has been fine in the AHL, though objectively is probably a long-shot to turn into something useful for the NHL team.

Obviously that would take a lot of things going right and falling into place (Bouchard being ready, Sekera not being useless, etc.), and the 2nd pair would still be pretty worrisome to me. Another thing to keep in mind is that most of our top D prospects now are RD, with the exception of Jones and Lagesson (if you consider him a 'top prospect').

In the end, I think we keep Nurse for now and the future, and will be happy we will do. He still needs to improve defensively (he should've laid out Bennett last night, before he got danced around, just as one example), but he'll very likely continue to improve. He's also never going to be Bobby Orr or Larry Robinson offensively, though he still makes nice rushes from time to time. All in all, he can and probably will be a very capable 2nd pairing guy who's a stalwart on defense and put up 25-30 points as season while not breaking the bank. A very valuable Dman to have in a cap world.

That still leaves us needing some wingers, but that's another topic, and I have too much to say on that when I've already said enough for one post.

EDIT: of course, it could be a bigger trade than just a 1-for-1 which could include a Dman coming back, but that opens up too many variables to assess with any amount of objectivity to make it worthwhile discussing to me. I'm only willing to go so far with conjecture. It's why I rarely post in the 'rumors' thread, etc.

 

[BudBundy]

With Sweeney scouting the BOA, I wonder if they'd move Krug for Nurse?

Next season:

Klefbom-Larsson
Krug-Bouchard
Russell-Sekera
Jones

I'd be down with that for next season. If we buy out Sekera then Russell moves to 3rd pairing RD.

This is less me being down on Nurse as it is me wanting more offense from the blueline.

Gross. If, and I say if, we ever move Nurse it better be for a better long-term fit than fricking Krug.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Good post. I don't agree with all of it, but some good points made.

Nurse reminds me of a young Eric Brewer. That Eric Brewer would fly up the ice, joining Weight on the rush. There was plenty to like. He also ended up playing a what, twenty year? career as a shutdown 2nd pairing kind of guy.

Nothing to scoff at, but not exactly what you'd have hoped for. With Nurse, we might be reaching that point... and I'm not overly bothered by it. His passing/vision may be so-so, to below average, but his skating is still very elite (I'm not seeing what others are complaining about). He's also better defensively now that Brewer was at the same age. He's also meaner. And a good team guy by all accounts. And a top-in-the-CHL scholastic player, so he WILL continue to learn at this level even if his "innate" hockey IQ is lower.

The bridge was a great play by Chia. I think either way Nurse is part of this team's future and with Bouchard on the way, he's a nice complement to what Nurse brings to a 2nd pairing. One guy to skate and intimidate, the other to cover the slot more quietly and break out with incisive passing.

Brewer and Nurse share the common attribute that they are more puck rushing d-men rather than passing d-men, both were underwhelming on the PP, though Brewer had a seeing eye wrist shot that had a habit of finding its way through traffic despite not having much velocity on it.

Brewer at the same age had established himself as our #1 d-man and already made the Canadian Olympics roster which was a controversial decision at the time, but Nurse would be a controversial decision for Canada's C squad at his present level, Brewer also had an NHL all-star game appearance under his belt. Brewer had the knocks of not being a great offensive producer and too soft on players physically, but he was very sound positionaly and generally made good decisions which is something we've established Nurse has had problems with.

In terms of bridging Nurse, I always felt that was the most obvious choice so I wouldn't give Chia kudos for that, given how he backed himself into a corner cap-wise it was really the only practical decision unless he wanted to further subtract from an already iffy roster.

 

[bucks_oil]

Brewer and Nurse share the common attribute that they are more puck rushing d-men rather than passing d-men, both were underwhelming on the PP, though Brewer had a seeing eye wrist shot that had a habit of finding its way through traffic despite not having much velocity on it.

Brewer at the same age had established himself as our #1 d-man and already made the Canadian Olympics roster which was a controversial decision at the time, but Nurse would be a controversial decision for Canada's C squad at his present level, Brewer also had an NHL all-star game appearance under his belt. Brewer had the knocks of not being a great offensive producer and too soft on players physically, but he was very sound positionaly and generally made good decisions which is something we've established Nurse has had problems with.

In terms of bridging Nurse, I always felt that was the most obvious choice so I wouldn't give Chia kudos for that, given how he backed himself into a corner cap-wise it was really the only practical decision unless he wanted to further subtract from an already iffy roster.

It certainly is the memories of Brewer skating the puck up and then scratching his head trying to figure out what to do with it that remind me of Nurse. Thanks for the Olympic reminder, that was a trip down memory lane.

I don't agree/remember that Brewer had established himself as our #1. In his 22 yo season he was 3rd in ice time behind Niinimaa and Poti (that's ~equivalent to Nurse last year where he was 2nd in ice time). In Brewer's 23 yo season he was 2nd in ice time but still 3+ minutes behind Niinimaa (Nurse is presently 3rd).

And yeah, Brewer was way softer when young, but also really grew into some "man strength" which made him more useful in his StL and Tampa years. My analogy was mostly to make that point... two young d with great skating and questionable offensive instincts... one who went on to be considered (at times) one of the better shutdown guys in the league. Nurse has all the skills to be that guy.

To me, Nurse hasn't taken a huge step this year, but if you compare to two short years ago, he's still miles ahead. It isn't uncommon to see a plateau followed by another step forward. I'm not worried.