TSN: What should Bruins do with Milan Lucic?

[smithformeragent]

This team is at a crossroads, as far as I can tell.

They went into last season having to shed players because of the salary cap.
Now, they stand to lose more and it's not as if they have top 5 picks or players in the AHL knocking on the door.

I'd seriously consider moving both Lucic and Hamilton. In fact, I'd think about moving everything that's not nailed to the floor and do a proper rebuild rather than a slow rot.

 

[Man Rocket]

How would it look to other players around the league if the B's once again trade a top player right before an extension kicks in? They did it with Seguin and now some want them to do it with Krejci? Is that the kind of thing that players and agents pay any attention to?

What's more important, appearances or the team?

 

[BMC]

Trade him. He simply isn't the player who signed that $6 million deal anymore. I don't know why but he just isn't and it doesn't look like he ever will be again.

 

[LouJersey]

I hate people.

Lucic w/

SETH GRIFFITH: 253:07--- 2.13 GF/60 (25% of Lucic's ES time)
CHRIS KELLY: 113:10 ----2.11 GF/60 (10% of Lucic's ES Time)

David Krejci: 2.64 GF/60-- over 30% of his ice time
Ryan Spooner: 2.76 GF/60-- over 24% of his ice time
David Pastrnak: 3.80 GF/60 -- over 32% of his ice time

he went 3.02 and 3.07 with DK and Iggy in 13-14

Didn't realize Lucic was paid to just score goals anyways.

 

[BMC]

What's more important, appearances or the team?

Perception matters when you're trying to sign & keep players.

One thing I will always praise Peter Chiarelli for- he made Boston an attractive destination after decades of being somewhere nobody wanted to go to either by trade or free agency.

 

[Kaoz]

Wow, looking at those stats it would appear Lucic had a pretty bad 13/14 season compared to his teammates. At least I think, that's a lot of colors and professional looking bar graphs that I'm not really sure I understand at all. Comparing those to stats I do understand though:

2013/2014

TEAM|GP|G/60|A1/60|A2/60|P/60
PATRICEBERGERON|80|1.21|0.71|0.6|2.53
BRADMARCHAND|82|0.97|0.92|0.49|2.38
DAVIDKREJCI|80|0.73|0.78|0.87|2.37
MILANLUCIC|80|1.02|0.87|0.46|2.35
JAROMEIGINLA|78|1.28|0.56|0.46|2.31
CARLSODERBERG|73|0.75|0.88|0.48|2.1

Those were the Bruin Leaders for 2013/2014. Simplifying things and looking at points relative to actual ice time, Lucic appears to have been right on par with everyone but Bergeron. Depending on how you weight goals, primary and secondary assists, an argument could easily be made for him putting up more appealing numbers then guys like Krejci, Marchand, and Soderberg that year.

To take it a step further and look at last year, I again get confused by Lucic's steady decline. It looks more like an overall issue with the team itself. Lucic again looks to have hung tough with team leaders, he and Marchand lagging behind in really just one category, secondary assists.

2014/2015

NAME|GP|G/60|A1/60|A2/60|P/60
DAVIDPASTRNAK|46|0.88|0.77|0.77|2.43
PATRICEBERGERON|81|0.94|0.83|0.33|2.11
RYANSPOONER|29|0.55|0.74|0.74|2.03
DAVIDKREJCI|47|0.43|0.69|0.78|1.91
BRADMARCHAND|77|0.96|0.73|0.22|1.91
MILANLUCIC|81|0.85|0.59|0.37|1.81

I don't know, it looks to me like Lucic's drop coincides with the entire teams drop in performance if anything. It'd be interesting to see similar analysis for the rest of the top 6 for comparative purposes.

 

[chizzler]

Perception matters when you're trying to sign & keep players.

One thing I will always praise Peter Chiarelli for- he made Boston an attractive destination after decades of being somewhere nobody wanted to go to either by trade or free agency.

Why? The Bruins won't be able to sign anyone from now on because of trading lucic. Those days are long gone. It's a business!!!!!

 

[ThorntonFightClub*]

Why? The Bruins won't be able to sign anyone from now on because of trading lucic. Those days are long gone. It's a business!!!!!

Yeah, who needs a 25-30-55, 200 hit 100 PIM power forward.

Trade Lucic and watch how quickly his former linemates' stats drop.

The amount of space he creates on the ice is drastically underrated. Unfortunately they don't have a shiny advanced stat for that

 

[bp13]

I hate people.

Lucic w/

SETH GRIFFITH: 253:07--- 2.13 GF/60 (25% of Lucic's ES time)
CHRIS KELLY: 113:10 ----2.11 GF/60 (10% of Lucic's ES Time)

David Krejci: 2.64 GF/60-- over 30% of his ice time
Ryan Spooner: 2.76 GF/60-- over 24% of his ice time
David Pastrnak: 3.80 GF/60 -- over 32% of his ice time

he went 3.02 and 3.07 with DK and Iggy in 13-14

Didn't realize Lucic was paid to just score goals anyways.

He's not, but that's where you really hit the point. How much more than his production is he actually worth? I think there is some big disagreement on that. I certainly didn't see a player making a major impact with his legs, his physical presence or intimidation last season. Now I realize his supporters will give his wrist or something else as an excuse, but did you see a guy changing games last season? I surely did not.

 

[BadBruins]

It's not that they aren't concerning but DK makes players around him better. Also he doesn't play the style of game that leads to wear and year like Looch does.

If we could get the 16th pick and Yakupov I do it. The 16th overall is likely to be a better player than Lucic going forward and while Yakupov has struggled he has too much talent to not make it. He needs a new start.

That would certainly be a fair return. Maybe more than fair.

I'm still skeptical that other GM's are willing to give up full value for Lucic coming off a down year as an impending free agent. I don't want to see another situation where they sell low. They did it with Boychuk and Seguin. Although for two very different reasons. Lucic situation is again different, but has similarities to both IMO. Scapegoat or cap casualty.

 

[MadderBum*]

That would certainly be a fair return. Maybe more than fair.

I'm still skeptical that other GM's are willing to give up full value for Lucic coming off a down year as an impending free agent. I don't want to see another situation where they sell low. They did it with Boychuk and Seguin. Although for two very different reasons. Lucic situation is again different, but has similarities to both IMO. Scapegoat or cap casualty.

Those were PC...Don Sweeney isn't as egotistical or dumb to make those trades...let's give him a shot..

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

One way or the other, it's going to be a highly entertaining offseason. I'm hearing a cap figure as low as 67.5m if there's no escalator. Now THAT is going to cause fireworks with us (and others). Word is the escalator vote is very soon. I imagine the draft is going to be chalked full of trades if teams are scrambling to eventually comply.

 

[LouJersey]

He's not, but that's where you really hit the point. How much more than his production is he actually worth? I think there is some big disagreement on that. I certainly didn't see a player making a major impact with his legs, his physical presence or intimidation last season. Now I realize his supporters will give his wrist or something else as an excuse, but did you see a guy changing games last season? I surely did not.

Nope, he was awful last season. A cartoon character of himself. So was everyone not named Bergeron, Krug or Rask.

He produces with a good center and RW on the first line. He will be fine.

Hitting wise, he still hit and defensemen still rush and fumble. Again, I'm not rushing to sign him right now before the season,.,..let his sweat...let him prove he wants to be here and go from there.

To hand him a 7 year extension July 2nd would be stupid IMO.

 

[Gee Wally]

Those were PC...Don Sweeney isn't as egotistical or dumb to make those trades...let's give him a shot..

LOL....

I do enjoy when the troll detector goes off and the dead* are captured yet again.....

That and ban ability are probably the only 2 things I miss from being an Admin.

 

[Baddkarma]

The only thing I dont like here is that he is ignoring the fact that outside of Spooner and Pasta the whole team could be bar graphed as having "down years".

Why not move Chara, Krejci, or Rask? Your telling me Tampa or Anaheim wouldn't do some creative things to get Chara? Nashville would love to get Krejci. That frees up the Bruins to a much greater extent.

The Bruins window is for the most is closed, so new blood is coming in soon anyway.

Sweeney called Looch a foundational player, either to drive up his value, which this article says is ****, or because he likes him going forward. Is Sweeney the kind of guy to engage is that type of hyperbole? Dunno...

 

[ashnathan]

The only thing I dont like here is that he is ignoring the fact that outside of Spooner and Pasta the whole team could be bar graphed as having "down years".

Why not move Chara, Krejci, or Rask? Your telling me Tampa or Anaheim wouldn't do some creative things to get Chara? Nashville would love to get Krejci. That frees up the Bruins to a much greater extent.

The Bruins window is for the most is closed, so new blood is coming in soon anyway.

Sweeney called Looch a foundational player, either to drive up his value, which this article says is ****, or because he likes him going forward. Is Sweeney the kind of guy to engage is that type of hyperbole? Dunno...

After watching the playoffs and seeing what an abortion the goaltending has been I have never been so greatful that Tuukka is our goaltender...seriously.

 

[BruinDust]

That would certainly be a fair return. Maybe more than fair.

I'm still skeptical that other GM's are willing to give up full value for Lucic coming off a down year as an impending free agent. I don't want to see another situation where they sell low. They did it with Boychuk and Seguin. Although for two very different reasons. Lucic situation is again different, but has similarities to both IMO. Scapegoat or cap casualty.

I just don't want to see Boston choose the older option again.

Chia has had choices to make, and in every situation he chose the older player.

He knew cap wise someone had to go after 2013. He was intent on signing Horton, even if he did Seguin was likely a goner. So between Seguin at C vs. Krejci, or Seguin at RW vs. Horton, Seguin was the guy to go. Just so happened it turned out to be Seguin vs. Iginla, an even older option.

Then came Boychuk vs. Seidenberg. Knee injury aside the fact remains Seidenberg was the older player and he got priority to get re-signed. Another mistake by Chia.

So as I see it between now and next years trade deadline the Bruins have to choose between Eriksson and Lucic. Trade Loui now or before the deadline and keep Lucic. Holding onto older players at the expense of younger ones is part of the reason the Bruins are in the mess they are in.

 

[MattFromFranklin]

See if Colorado is dumb enough to trade the 10th overall for him. That way we can select Provorov, Werenski or Rantanen.

 

[LouJersey]

Lucic's linemates, Pasta and Spooner were the only two Bruins who averaged over 2 pts per 60 minutes.

Had Lucic played his entire even strength time with Pasta, he would have gone 25 goals, 25 assists...

That doesn't even account for PP time.

Also Lucic only had 11 PP SHOTS all season with the idiot PP system we use.

 

[ThorntonFightClub*]

Then came Boychuk vs. Seidenberg. Knee injury aside the fact remains Seidenberg was the older player and he got priority to get re-signed. Another mistake by Chia.

This is not accurate.

Seidenberg was locked in for 3 years at a very cap friendly 4 mill per

vs

Boychuk, a pending UFA who would cost 6+ a year to lock up.

Hate the return and timing all you want, but purely in terms of roster management he made the right call.

 

[bp13]

Nope, he was awful last season. A cartoon character of himself. So was everyone not named Bergeron, Krug or Rask.

He produces with a good center and RW on the first line. He will be fine.

Hitting wise, he still hit and defensemen still rush and fumble. Again, I'm not rushing to sign him right now before the season,.,..let his sweat...let him prove he wants to be here and go from there.

To hand him a 7 year extension July 2nd would be stupid IMO.

But I think that's where I might differ from you. Last year I'd have been on board with doing that exact thing with Boychuk because I felt like the team would be able to make a real run at the Cup. Don't open up a hole in a year you might compete if you can avoid it. In hindsight I was clearly wrong, but that's the case where you let a guy ride out his final year, I think.

I don't think this season's Bruins team is terribly close without plugging multiple holes, and I don't see how you plug the holes without moving a few major pieces and winning a few deals. And what better piece to move than a guy who has a good chance of being priced out of here and only has a year left?

At the end of the day I don't see how the Bruins compete for a Cup in the next 5 or so years if they're paying Milan Lucic $6M+ per year. He's about a $5 million player who should be looking at a raise consistent with cost of living and mediocre performance, but that's not what he's going to be asking for.

 

[Lost Horizons]

This is not accurate.

Seidenberg was locked in for 3 years at a very cap friendly 4 mill per

vs

Boychuk, a pending UFA who would cost 6+ a year to lock up.

Hate the return and timing all you want, but purely in terms of roster management he made the right call.

Boychuk should have been locked up long before his free agent year. Chia had a long history of locking players before their free agent year yet he chose not to lock up JB and use the money on an older DS. If Chia said to JB in Jan 2014 would you take 5x5 before JB would have taken it but chia waited and JB's price went way up after Orpik signed that nutty deal with Washington. Chia picked DS over JB and it had no doubt to the advance stats numbers being in DS favor. Also DS signed a 4 year extension not 3

 

[TheReal13Linseman]

Lucic is a big game player. You win Cups with players like him. We need more Lucic on the team. Not less.

No wonder why all other 29 teams would line up to make an offer if he ever reach UFA or is on the trade block.

Extend him.

Yes, he's a big game player but we've now become "not a big game team." (I tried to convince you of this in April and you kept insisting we were definitely a playoff team.) Bruins right now are screwed for years to come without some creative destruction here.

Would love to somehow package him with Chara.

 

[BruinDust]

This is not accurate.

Seidenberg was locked in for 3 years at a very cap friendly 4 mill per

vs

Boychuk, a pending UFA who would cost 6+ a year to lock up.

Hate the return and timing all you want, but purely in terms of roster management he made the right call.

I was talking about when he decided to re-sign Seidenberg before camp in Sept 2013, not the choice he made last October to trade Boychuk.

The decision was made then. Chia for all his mistakes did look forward to what he would have to do to be cap compliant. He never talked extension with Boychuk. He knew when he opened discussion about an extension with Seidenberg's agent that if the deal got done it would have a ripple effect on what he did in the coming years to his key D men, likely Boychuk or McQuaid.

He easily could of held off on Seidenberg, negotiated with Boychuk into the spring of 2014, and if a deal was reached re-signed Boychuk on July 1st 2014 and let Seidenberg walk. That would of been the right call.

 

[bp13]

Lucic's linemates, Pasta and Spooner were the only two Bruins who averaged over 2 pts per 60 minutes.

Had Lucic played his entire even strength time with Pasta, he would have gone 25 goals, 25 assists...

That doesn't even account for PP time.

Also Lucic only had 11 PP SHOTS all season with the idiot PP system we use.

I completely agree that knocking his production and ignoring his situational ice time is unfair. You're completely right. But you're also making the argument for why he's not a $6M+ hockey player because even when he's playing with stars he's not producing at a level close enough where his other attributes make up for the difference. The money he's looking for puts him with players who can make a difference with the puck on their stick and anyone else on the ice with him. He most definitely can not do that.

I just can't help but think that if we weren't 'saddled' with the Big, Bad, Bruins mantra in this town, if this were any other city, people would be fine shopping this guy. He's overpaid and will be looking to be more overpaid, IMO. Not sure why we should be okay with that.