Line Combos: What sey you?

[Empoleon8771]

That wouldn't be a horrible idea if Dupuis still has his legs. Dupuis brings a lot to the table that Kessel lacks and complements him extremely well. With his defensive responsibility, grit and board work, I honestly think Dupuis is almost as perfect of a 3rd wheel for those 2 in theory. I say in theory because there is no way of knowing what level Dupuis will be at when he gets back. If he still has his speed, I think he'd be an excellent complement for those 2.

People just hate any suggestion that has Kunitz or Dupuis in the top-6 because of how Bylsma clung to KCD. I really don't think there's an issue with having 1 of them in the top-6 with Kessel as the other winger. I'd try Dupuis first because his style would seem like the best fit of any of our other wingers.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

That wouldn't be a horrible idea if Dupuis still has his legs. Dupuis brings a lot to the table that Kessel lacks and complements him extremely well. With his defensive responsibility, grit and board work, I honestly think Dupuis is almost as perfect of a 3rd wheel for those 2 in theory. I say in theory because there is no way of knowing what level Dupuis will be at when he gets back. If he still has his speed, I think he'd be an excellent complement for those 2.

People just hate any suggestion that has Kunitz or Dupuis in the top-6 because of how Bylsma clung to KCD. I really don't think there's an issue with having 1 of them in the top-6 with Kessel as the other winger. I'd try Dupuis first because his style would seem like the best fit of any of our other wingers.

Kunitz is a corpse on skates and is only going to get worse as he gets older. Dupuis isn't and never was a top six player, despite being slotted there. Add to that the fact that he's played 55 games of hockey over the past 2 years, he's 36 years old, and coming off of extremely serious injuries/illness. If Kunitz and/or Dupuis see shifts in the top six, it'll be a colossal error by our coaching staff. It'd be a terrible decision. We have several players who should be in the top six over both Kunitz and Dupuis--Perron, Plotnikov, Bennett, Bonino.

 

[Fordy]

dupuis is not the perfect third wheel for any line

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'd give it 10 games before people were freaking out about Dupuis and his hands killing things from Crosby-Kessel. And then there's, you know, his health in the last two seasons and his age.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kunitz is a corpse on skates and is only going to get older. Dupuis isn't and never was a top six player, despite being slotted there. Add to that the fact that he's played 55 games of hockey over the past 2 years, he's 36 years old, and coming off of extremely serious injuries/illness. If Kunitz and/or Dupuis see shifts in the top six, it'll be a colossal error by our coaching staff. It'd be a terrible decision. We have several players who should be in the top six over both Kunitz and Dupuis--Perron, Plotnikov, Bennett, Bonino.

How wasn't Dupuis a top-6 player in 11-12, when he put up 59 points while playing primarily along Staal and Sullivan? That's just a laughably untrue thing to say unless you have some skewed view of what a top-6 forward actually is.

Bennett has done absolutely nothing in his career to say that he should play in the top-6 over either Kunitz or Dupuis, Plotnikov has never played a game in NA and Bonino is a center and hasn't played wing regularly in 10 or so years. There is absolutely no argument for either of those 3 in the top-6 over Dupuis or Kunitz. That speaks of how bad of options they are (as of right now), not how Dupuis and Kunitz are good options.

If Dupuis still has his legs, I think he'd be the best option for Crosby's LW with Kessel. Playing a career center, a walking bandaid or a complete known isn't more appealing than playing a Dupuis that still has his legs along Crosby and Kessel.

I'd give it 10 games before people were freaking out about Dupuis and his hands killing things from Crosby-Kessel. And then there's, you know, his health in the last two seasons and his age.

The entire assumption is that he's healthy and still has his legs. His entire purpose on that line would be playing as a puck retriever and being responsible defensively, basically compensating for what Kessel doesn't do.

 

[NMK11]

Kunitz is a corpse on skates and is only going to get worse as he gets older. Dupuis isn't and never was a top six player, despite being slotted there. Add to that the fact that he's played 55 games of hockey over the past 2 years, he's 36 years old, and coming off of extremely serious injuries/illness. If Kunitz and/or Dupuis see shifts in the top six, it'll be a colossal error by our coaching staff. It'd be a terrible decision. We have several players who should be in the top six over both Kunitz and Dupuis--Perron, Plotnikov, Bennett, Bonino.

I wouldn't have a problem with Kunitz OR Dupuis. AND would be a problem. Of the other four you listed, Perron should definitely be there, Plotnikov is an unknown, Bonino needs to center the third line at least until Fehr is healthy, and Bennett's health and productivity are always up for debate.

It should be one top six spot for Kunitz, Dupuis, Plot, or BB, and all of them have question marks. However, the take home message is that these four are competing to be the worst top four winger, not the best, so I'm not going to be too disappointed in whoever it is.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wouldn't have a problem with Kunitz OR Dupuis. AND would be a problem. Of the other four you listed, Perron should definitely be there, Plotnikov is an unknown, Bonino needs to center the third line at least until Fehr is healthy, and Bennett's health and productivity are always up for debate.

It should be one top six spot for Kunitz, Dupuis, Plot, or BB, and all of them have question marks. However, the take home message is that these four are competing to be the worst top four winger, not the best, so I'm not going to be too disappointed in whoever it is.

Yeah this is exactly where I'm at. Hornqvist, Perron and Kessel should be locked into top-6 roles, with Perron and Hornqvist being a wing duo. The 4th top-6 wing spot should be whoever is playing the best. I'd let basically any winger try for that spot. If Fehr would be healthy, I'd say he would be the best option to start.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

How wasn't Dupuis a top-6 player in 11-12, when he put up 59 points while playing primarily along Staal and Sullivan? That's just a laughably untrue thing to say unless you have some skewed view of what a top-6 forward actually is.

Bennett has done absolutely nothing in his career to say that he should play in the top-6 over either Kunitz or Dupuis, Plotnikov has never played a game in NA and Bonino is a center and hasn't played wing regularly in 10 or so years. There is absolutely no argument for either of those 3 in the top-6 over Dupuis or Kunitz. That speaks of how bad of options they are (as of right now), not how Dupuis and Kunitz are good options.

If Dupuis still has his legs, I think he'd be the best option for Crosby's LW with Kessel. Playing a career center, a walking bandaid or a complete known isn't more appealing than playing a Dupuis that still has his legs along Crosby and Kessel.



The entire assumption is that he's healthy and still has his legs. His entire purpose on that line would be playing as a puck retriever and being responsible defensively, basically compensating for what Kessel doesn't do.

How old do you think Bonino is?

Kunitz is *******. Literally a heaping, steaming pile of crap on skates. He has been for far longer than people seem comfortable admitting/realizing. He should never see top six minutes again. Ever. Now I'm sure you'll grab your megaphone and scream LOL PRODUCTION. Production hasn't ever been the issue with Kunitz. Why? I dunno, maybe because he's been duct-taped to Sid's hip and spoon-fed top PP time regardless of how atrocious his play has been for years? He is a terrible hockey player, he's lazy, complacent (thanks in part to this organization's coddling), soft, and floats nonstop. He's lost any semblance of physicality or hunger to his game years ago, when he started to put up good numbers. That's when he decided he didn't have to work for anything anymore, and he fancied himself some elite sniper that could just coast around waiting for the puck. If it wasn't for Scuderi being a beer league-level defenseman making ~$3.5M/yr, Kunitz would be this team's biggest issue by far.

Dupuis, whether or not he was used in a top six role, has never been a legitimate top six winger. He doesn't have the hands, the shot, the creativity, or the vision for it. All the guy has is speed and work ethic. The fact that he's been used as a top six winger has absolutely nothing to do with him or his skill/production, and everything to do with the way this team has horrendously mismanaged the winger situation in our top six for a decade.

Stop trying to make Kunitz and Dupuis happen. It shouldn't, and won't happen. It's ********.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Dupuis-Sid-Kessel

could be good. just depends how much game Dupuis has now.
The LW'er needs to be a good forchecker that picks pucks off, gains possession and gets pucks to the more talented Sid/Kessel. Dupuis could have the speed advantage over all the others as well.

Perron, Bennett, rejuvanated Kunitz or Dupuis, Plotnikov are all options really.
Kunitz being my least liked but who knows what he has left in the tank.
He could look good for a bit but it's not a good thing long term.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How old do you think Bonino is?

He's 27. He hasn't played wing regularly since he played junior, hence "10 or so years". Would it be better if I said "Bonino has never played wing regularly as a pro"?

Kunitz is *******. Literally a heaping, steaming pile of crap on skates. He has been for far longer than people seem comfortable admitting/realizing. He should never see top six minutes again. Ever. Now I'm sure you'll grab your megaphone and scream LOL PRODUCTION. Production hasn't ever been the issue with Kunitz. Why? I dunno, maybe because he's been duct-taped to Sid's hip and spoon-fed top PP time regardless of how atrocious his play has been for years? He is a terrible hockey player, he's lazy, complacent (thanks in part to this organization's coddling), soft, and floats nonstop. He's lost any semblance of physicality or hunger to his game years ago, when he started to put up good numbers. That's when he decided he didn't have to work for anything anymore, and he fancied himself some elite sniper that could just coast around waiting for the puck. If it wasn't for Scuderi being a beer league-level defenseman making ~$3.5M/yr, Kunitz would be this team's biggest issue by far.

I like how you made this long paragraph post when I've said very little about Kunitz. I've been a lot less adamant about Kunitz being a top-6 solution here than I have been about Dupuis under the assumption Dupuis still has his speed. Kunitz is extremely low on the totem pole for wingers I'd want along Crosby and Kessel, but he deserves to have a shot there like anyone else and I don't think Kunitz is bad enough to negate how good Crosby with Kessel will be. All I said about Kunitz is that I don't think it would be bad if he was the 3rd wing on that line.

Dupuis, whether or not he was used in a top six role, has never been a legitimate top six winger. He doesn't have the hands, the shot, the creativity, or the vision for it. All the guy has is speed and work ethic. The fact that he's been used as a top six winger has absolutely nothing to do with him or his skill/production, and everything to do with the way this team has horrendously mismanaged the winger situation in our top six for a decade.

This is the part that bugged me. You basically named a bunch of offensive traits and said "since he isn't a top-6 winger with offensive talents, he's not a top-6 forward". That's an extremely narrow way to look at it. Dupuis's work ethic, speed and defensive play (he's an extremely good defensive player) is why he was a top-6 forward. You're painting an extremely broad thing with a very small brush. Hornqvist isn't known for his hands, speed, creativity, shot or vision, so is he not a top-6 forward? Of course not, he's a top-6 forward because he has an incredible work ethic, is fantastic in the dirty areas and is arguably the best net front presence in the league. To say that you have to be offensively creative on your own to be a top-6 forward is an extremely dumb way to define a top-6 forward. Under this logic, Kunitz was never a top-6 forward either and Bennett is a top-6 forward because of how talented he is.

Stop trying to make Kunitz and Dupuis happen. It shouldn't, and won't happen. It's ********.

Literally no one here is MJ, so I highly doubt anyone here has any say on what the lines will be. Hence why this is a message board.

Really, the only player I don't want to ever see along Kessel and Crosby is Perron. Perron's defensive struggles would be even worse while playing along a defensively challenged player like Kessel, and Perron really doesn't bring much to the table that Kessel doesn't bring. It also hurts Malkin.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

How old do you think Bonino is?

Kunitz is *******. Literally a heaping, steaming pile of crap on skates. He has been for far longer than people seem comfortable admitting/realizing. He should never see top six minutes again. Ever. Now I'm sure you'll grab your megaphone and scream LOL PRODUCTION. Production hasn't ever been the issue with Kunitz. Why? I dunno, maybe because he's been duct-taped to Sid's hip and spoon-fed top PP time regardless of how atrocious his play has been for years? He is a terrible hockey player, he's lazy, complacent (thanks in part to this organization's coddling), soft, and floats nonstop. He's lost any semblance of physicality or hunger to his game years ago, when he started to put up good numbers. That's when he decided he didn't have to work for anything anymore, and he fancied himself some elite sniper that could just coast around waiting for the puck. If it wasn't for Scuderi being a beer league-level defenseman making ~$3.5M/yr, Kunitz would be this team's biggest issue by far.

Dupuis, whether or not he was used in a top six role, has never been a legitimate top six winger. [/B]He doesn't have the hands, the shot, the creativity, or the vision for it. All the guy has is speed and work ethic. [/B]The fact that he's been used as a top six winger has absolutely nothing to do with him or his skill/production, and everything to do with the way this team has horrendously mismanaged the winger situation in our top six for a decade.

Stop trying to make Kunitz and Dupuis happen. It shouldn't, and won't happen. It's ********.

So is Hornqvist not a top 6 player either? He doesn't even have speed.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

He's 27. He hasn't played wing regularly since he played junior, hence "10 or so years". Would it be better if I said "Bonino has never played wing regularly as a pro"?

Bonino played wing in Anaheim a decent amount, and was successful there. Particularly LW.

I don't think Kunitz is bad enough to negate how good Crosby with Kessel will be.

Incorrect. If anyone would **** that line up, it'd be Kunitz.

All I said about Kunitz is that I don't think it would be bad if he was the 3rd wing on that line.

Disagree vehemently. He'd be lucky to still have a shot at being a 3rd wheel type of winger on our 3rd line with Bonino and Bennett/Dupuis.

This is the part that bugged me. You basically named a bunch of offensive traits and said "since he isn't a top-6 winger with offensive talents, he's not a top-6 forward". That's an extremely narrow way to look at it. Dupuis's work ethic, speed and defensive play (he's an extremely good defensive player) is why he was a top-6 forward. You're painting an extremely broad thing with a very small brush. Hornqvist isn't known for his hands, speed, creativity, shot or vision, so is he not a top-6 forward? Of course not, he's a top-6 forward because he has an incredible work ethic, is fantastic in the dirty areas and is arguably the best net front presence in the league. To say that you have to be offensively creative on your own to be a top-6 forward is an extremely dumb way to define a top-6 forward. Under this logic, Kunitz was never a top-6 forward either and Bennett is a top-6 forward because of how talented he is.

Saying that Hornqvist's place as a top six winger validates Dupuis' is ridiculous. Hornqvist is the best in the league at being a net front presence, his hands in tight are phenomenal, and he's a Hell of a worker who has an extremely high hockey IQ. The last part is exactly why he worked so perfectly with Sid. Everyone thinks the key for Sid's line is speed, when it's being able to think the game similar to Sid.

There is not one aspect of Dupuis' game that is elite, or anywhere near the level of Hornqvist's skillset. He's good defensively and fast, but has hands of stone, no vision, and no creativity? Fantastic, sounds like a bottom sixer. The eye test supports that mindset, especially when you factor in the dozens of chest snipes, missed nets, and flubbed chip-in goals.

Speed and work ethic are great, but they absolutely do not make up for lacking every single aspect of what you look for in a scoring line winger. Hornqvist's skillset and situation have nothing to do with Dupuis' and have no bearing on whether or not Dupuis should be a top six winger.

I'm not trashing Dupuis. I think he's a great dude and he's a very effective hockey player. That doesn't mean he's a top six guy at all. He's not, so let him play on the 3rd or 4th line where he'll actually help the team.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I don't think phenomenal should be used to describe Hornqvist's hands.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't think phenomenal should be used to describe Hornqvist's hands.

I don't believe you read the post properly, friend. I said hands in tight, particularly around the net. Meaning his ability to work with the puck in his feet or in a mess around the crease is pretty damn phenomenal.

I'm not implying Hornqvist is Patrick Kane or John Tavares with the puck on his stick.

 

[steveg]

I don't think phenomenal should be used to describe Hornqvist's hands.

He said "IN TIGHT" his hands are phenomenal, and I pretty much agree. You left that very important point out...

He does not have "phenomenal hands" from the perspective of routinely firing sick, bar-down wristers, or sniping corners at will. But, in close, tight quarters, where fast reaction and getting the puck on net is what matters, his hand-eye coordination are outstanding. And thus, I think it is fair to say that "in tight," he has "phenomenal hands."

EDIT -- I was late with my post; the point was already reiterated by Coach John McGuirk, right before mine...

 

[billybudd]

Kunitz is a corpse on skates and is only going to get worse as he gets older. Dupuis isn't and never was a top six player, despite being slotted there. Add to that the fact that he's played 55 games of hockey over the past 2 years, he's 36 years old, and coming off of extremely serious injuries/illness. If Kunitz and/or Dupuis see shifts in the top six, it'll be a colossal error by our coaching staff. It'd be a terrible decision. We have several players who should be in the top six over both Kunitz and Dupuis--Perron, Plotnikov, Bennett, Bonino.

I don't even know where to begin with this. So many errors in logic here. So, so many.

 

[plaidchuck]

May the best man win for that lone spot. If plots or.bennett. can't beat out kunitz or dupuis, shame on them. FWIW, dupuis quietly put up 11 in 16 last year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bonino played wing in Anaheim a decent amount, and was successful there. Particularly LW.

In 13-14, Bonino's most common linemates were Palmieri, Belesky, Selanne and Maroon at ES. None of those are centers. In 12-13, they were Selanne, Ryan and Palmieri. None of those are centers. In 11-12, they were Cogliano, Blake, Belesky and Ryan. Only Cogliano there is a center, but Bonino took significantly more faceoffs than he did while playing significantly less games. So no, he didn't play a wing a decent amount, at least at ES. There's a reason that Bonino specifically said that he was a center and hasn't played wing since he played in juniors.

Saying that Hornqvist's place as a top six winger validates Dupuis' is ridiculous.

I'm not saying that validates Dupuis being a top-6 forward, I'm saying that because your criteria of a top-6 forward is stupid. You're basically saying you have to be like Ales Hemsky to be a top-6 forward and those are the only kind of top-6 forwards.

Hornqvist is the best in the league at being a net front presence, his hands in tight are phenomenal, and he's a Hell of a worker who has an extremely high hockey IQ.

I don't think Hornqvist's hockey IQ is any higher than Dupuis' and his work ethic is no better or worse than Dupuis'. You seem to think Crosby just bounced pucks off of Dupuis for him to get points. What makes Hornqvist get points is that he goes to the dirty areas and battles hard, he doesn't have some astronomically high hockey IQ like you're saying.

The last part is exactly why he worked so perfectly with Sid. Everyone thinks the key for Sid's line is speed, when it's being able to think the game similar to Sid.

Which Dupuis did, hence his crazy good production in his recent years with Crosby.

There is not one aspect of Dupuis' game that is elite, or anywhere near the level of Hornqvist's skillset. He's good defensively and fast, but has hands of stone, no vision, and no creativity? Fantastic, sounds like a bottom sixer. The eye test supports that mindset, especially when you factor in the dozens of chest snipes, missed nets, and flubbed chip-in goals.

Again, you seem to think that a player needs to be like Hemsky to be a top-6 forward. He doesn't need to be elite in any aspect of his game, that doesn't not make him a top-6 forward. You're severely generalizing what a top-6 winger and what a bottom-6 winger is, as if a player has to be Hemsky to be a top-6 forward and has to be Winnik to be a bottom-6 forward.

I'd like to see a list of players who produced at over a 55 point pace over a 4 year span that isn't a top-6 forward.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't even know where to begin with this. So many errors in logic here. So, so many.

I mean, I guess I just sorta fail to grasp what's wrong with the post.

Kunitz is going to magically turn around his game after 2 and a half seasons of atrocious, lazy, unacceptable play and return to his effective form? Wouldn't that be somethin'.

We should hand Dupuis, a 36 year old coming off of a life-threatening condition where he couldn't exert himself and stay in shape a spot on our top line? Forget the fact that the season before he had major reconstructive knee surgery, and his effectiveness relies 100% upon his speed. Forget the fact that he's had hands of stone his entire career, and doesn't think the game like a scoring line player. Forget the dozens upon dozens of botched scoring opportunities of the past, by a younger and healthy/in shape Dupuis. It just feels right to have Duper in the top six, let him live the dream.

I know the rub with Perron is his skating--which isn't as catastrophic as people would love to believe--and his defensive game. Fact is, our top two lines won't have to be playing defense very much. It seems like people are willing to render final judgement on a guy who has, for his entire career, been an effective and skilled scoring line player just because of a poor showing last season. Nevermind the fact that the entire team--save for Letang and Fleury--were completely terrible for varying lengths of time, and the team itself was in the midst of the worst stretch of hockey we've seen in a decade.

Plotnikov, by all accounts, is a big, fairly skilled winger who loves the physical aspect of the game and has a deceptively good shot. Whether or not he's going to be able to acclimate to the NA game quickly is up for discussion, but Plotnikov has proven successful with good players in the past. And it's not like he's been playing in some C-tier Swiss league overseas.

While Bennett isn't my top pick for a scoring line role, I still think he'd be better than Kunitz or Dupuis. Besides his inability to stay healthy for any length of time, his skating is the only thing really holding him back. He's got all of the tools to be successful, and his defensive game and physicality have gotten much better over time.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fun stat: Bennett had 1 more point and 2 less goals in 33 more games than Dupuis last year. But yes, let's continue saying that Bennett would be better in the top-6 than Dupuis would be because reasons.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm not saying that validates Dupuis being a top-6 forward, I'm saying that because your criteria of a top-6 forward is stupid. You're basically saying you have to be like Ales Hemsky to be a top-6 forward and those are the only kind of top-6 forwards.

You can think it's stupid if you want. I think wasting a top six spot on a skating dumpster fire in Kunitz, or a guy who has always been a bottom sixer forced into a top six role (Dupuis) is idiotic. Especially now that we have a multitude of options for the first time in Sid and Geno's career.

You just seem to simply not get it, and continue to make stupid connections that aren't there.

Again, you seem to think that a player needs to be like Hemsky to be a top-6 forward. He doesn't need to be elite in any aspect of his game, that doesn't not make him a top-6 forward. You're severely generalizing what a top-6 winger and what a bottom-6 winger is, as if a player has to be Hemsky to be a top-6 forward and has to be Winnik to be a bottom-6 forward.

No, you seem to think I am implying I want a guy who is essentially Kovalev and nothing else. Which you're wrong about, but that's no big surprise. Try to keep up, and actually read the posts instead of inferring some non-existent, between the lines message.

I absolutely love Hornqvist in the top six, despite his lack of blazing speed and puck skills. Why? Because he has very tangible, effective skills that lead to him producing, and making life for his linemates easier. He's produced in the past without anything even close to resembling the centers Kunitz and Dupuis have worked with, on an (at the time) offensively inept Preds team.

I'd like to see a list of players who produced at over a 55 point pace over a 4 year span that isn't a top-6 forward.

Fair enough. Now take into account that Dupuis did that on a line with one of the two best players on Earth. I'd bet that skewed the numbers a bit.

If a guy is going to be in the top six, he needs to not be a black hole of offense and creativity. Yes, Dupuis--much like Kunitz--has put up decent numbers in the past. The simple fact is that they've been slotted alongside the best player on Earth and we had absolutely no other option.

I will concede that I'd rather Dupuis in the top six, if all other options have been exhausted and proven to fail, than Kunitz. As you've said, he does have some redeeming qualities, I just don't think they're nearly enough to take away from the fact that his hands, creativity, and shot are just simply not there.

If Dupuis is as phenomenal a two-way player and his speed is such an asset, as people are suggesting, then why in the world is everyone so opposed to playing him in the role he's tailor-made for? Hint: it's the bottom six.

Saying a guy is a bottom six player isn't some insult. It's not a knock against Dupuis' character, or some sleight to him as a person. He's just the epitome of a very good third line guy. I'm not sure what the issue is there. It's like some of you have developed some sort of personal connection to the dude, and saying anything other than "Man, this guy's an all-world player" is some heinous smear campaign.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Fun stat: Bennett had 1 more point and 2 less goals in 33 more games than Dupuis last year. But yes, let's continue saying that Bennett would be better in the top-6 than Dupuis would be because reasons.

Fun stat: Bennett played the vast majority of his minutes with the least effective top nine player I've ever seen in Sutter, and on a line with Craig Adams.

But let's continue to cherry pick stats because, well, agenda.

 

[#66]

Going by the past two days of informal skates both Kunitz and Dupuis looked better than Plotnikov.

If Tangradi doesn't make a push this year then forget it... Its the best I've ever seen him.

I usually try and stick up for Scuds but time has clearly passed him by.

 

[billybudd]

While Bennett isn't my top pick for a scoring line role, I still think he'd be better than Kunitz or Dupuis. Besides his inability to stay healthy for any length of time, his skating is the only thing really holding him back. He's got all of the tools to be successful, and his defensive game and physicality have gotten much better over time.

Your basis for believing this is absolutely nothing.

The situation is thus

-Last year player A scored X points in 15 or so games. Player A is, if not our best defensive forward, then certainly our best defensive forward at wing.

-Player B also scored X points, but it took him 3 times as many games to get there. Player B is, if not our worst defensive forward, then almost definitely bottom 3.

-The pattern of player A scoring more than player B in similar situations has existed throughout their entire careers. First line, third line, at the same age, at different ages, on the same team, on different teams, everything. Player B's best season is worse than player A's worst.

-Both players have missed more than 90 games in the last two seasons due to health.


You are taking these givens and declaring that player A shouldn't be in a scoring role in any circumstance, citing X as inadequate as well as injury history.

Fine. Whatever.

But you cannot then turn around and try to say, unironically, that player B should be, as it takes him far longer to reach X, and he has no remotely comparable ability to keep pucks out of his own (in fact, player B shot 1 puck in his own net for every 4 he shot in the other). Nor can you cite health concerns for player A, while ignoring that player B has been even more unhealthy since player B was drafted.

And this is without even touching on the notion of disqualifying Kunitz for Plotnikov sight unseen or hammering Kunitz for his late season work while ignoring that Perron was even worse for more than half his time on this club.

If you're going to have a standard that disqualifies people, you need to apply it equally. You cannot disqualify a guy who "was playing like a corpse" last then offer as an alternative a player who was playing like a corpse last year. You can't say one guy who misses a lot of games should be out because of it, then suggest another guy who misses even more should be in. You can't say a particular level of production is inadequate then say a level of production that is fractional of the first is not.

 

[Headshot77]

OH MY GOD, This "Dupuis was never a legit top 6 forward" stuff has the dumbest stuff I've ever read on HFboards. Not only has Dupuis previously had multiple 20 goal seasons (one of which being the half season in 12-13), he brings energy, speed, and tenacity onto the ice every. damn. time. Dupuis was far and away worthy of being on any decent team's second line during his prime here.