What Is Truly Wrong With The Oilers?

[ThePhoenixx]

Are you advocating for them to keep the forward group pretty much the same? Next season is a complete write off if they don't make at least one significant addition to the forward group.

I am saying that you fix the defense first. Once you do that you work on the wingers.

A winger you can hide. You can't hide a dman except for a limited amount at home. They always get exposed. Young dmen like Benning should be doing more watching than playing. Working on his skating after practice. Watching from above as plays develop. Learning. He was rushed from day one. They all were. They all will be again if the Oilers don't fix that.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Not for 6M

Won't get in to that argument. I'm just saying that when he puts his mind to it he looks damn good.

 

[frag2]

Won't get in to that argument. I'm just saying that when he puts his mind to it he looks damn good.

Keyword is "when" lol. The problem with him is he seemingly picks and chooses and we can't have that anymore. Especially from a 6M 'leader'

The sooner he is off the team, the more breathing room the team has to get better.

 

[CupofOil]

I am saying that you fix the defense first. Once you do that you work on the wingers.

A winger you can hide. You can't hide a dman except for a limited amount at home. They always get exposed. Young dmen like Benning should be doing more watching than playing. Working on his skating after practice. Watching from above as plays develop. Learning. He was rushed from day one. They all were. They all will be again if the Oilers don't fix that.

Not even McDavid and Draisaitl can hide low level NHL talent as has been proven the last 2 years. The Oilers are one of the worst teams in the league when those two are off the ice and when both are separated, whoever receives the scrub wingers can't produce at a high enough level, not even McDavid.

They can't go into next season without at least one significant upgrade up front. I don't think they need two or three top 6 wingers like some seem to think but they need one who can play with McDavid or Drai and a 3rd line center. Standing relatively pat with this forward group is not an option or next season is over before it began.
The defense is passable when healthy, the forward group is not. Don't get me wrong, the defense has its issues too but the forwards are the primary issue right now.

 

[Little Fury]

I am saying that you fix the defense first. Once you do that you work on the wingers.

Ok: how? We'll have some cap space, but the UFA crop is awful. Trade assets are thin on the ground here; no one wants our junk.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Those contracts aren't going anywhere until the expansion draft IMO, that's when the Oilers will be able to make some serious maneuvering.

In the interim, they need to shed the more manageable contracts like the aforementioned Russell, Manning, Benning and maybe Kassian. Reider's 2M comes off the books and Petrovic as well so they'll have a little wiggle room with the rising cap to add a decent player or two even if they don't trade a contract. The only players who need to be re-upped are Khaira and Puljujarvi who will get minimal raises at best so they should have a little breathing room to do something.

We thought the same thing about Pouliot. Seattle's team will likely take a number of lessons from Vegas.

I'm hoping for some more compliance buyouts.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Keyword is "when" lol. The problem with him is he seemingly picks and chooses and we can't have that anymore. Especially from a 6M 'leader'

The sooner he is off the team, the more breathing room the team has to get better.

Those days are becoming more frequent. I can't even imagine having to go through what he did. It takes a long time to recover from something like that.

I think he is coming around. You are right. Only time will tell.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Not even McDavid and Draisaitl can hide low level NHL talent as has been proven the last 2 years. The Oilers are one of the worst teams in the league when those two are off the ice and when both are separated, whoever receives the scrub wingers can't produce at a high enough level, not even McDavid.

They can't go into next season without at least one significant upgrade up front. I don't think they need two or three top 6 wingers like some seem to think but they need one who can play with McDavid or Drai and a 3rd line center. Standing relatively pat with this forward group is not an option or next season is over before it began.
The defense is passable when healthy, the forward group is not. Don't get me wrong, the defense has its issues too but the forwards are the primary issue right now.

Passable when healthy? That is exactly my point. I guess we will agree to disagree then. It certainly would be good to add a winger. It should not be their focus though.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Ok: how? We'll have some cap space, but the UFA crop is awful. Trade assets are thin on the ground here; no one wants our junk.

The Oilers have assets. The price of a number #3 is Muzzin, no?

The Oilers have the assets, but I didn't say it was easy. Hence the not much faith comment.

 

[CupofOil]

Passable when healthy? That is exactly my point. I guess we will agree to disagree then. It certainly would be good to add a winger. It should not be their focus though.

I'm saying the D is passable when healthy and the forward group is not even passable. The Oilers 4th best forward is a guy who was traded for Spooner and was playing in the AHL at 30 years old, that's how dire the situation is.

We agree that the D needs upgrades at some point but the forward group needs upgrades NOW.
It's, by far, the worst group in the league outside of its top 3 players.
Would you honestly be fine with this forward group going into next season outside of a minor shuffle here and there?

 

[Little Fury]

The Oilers have assets. The price of a number #3 is Muzzin, no?

So Puljujarvi/Yamo, a prospect and a 1st round pick? That's pretty steep for a team that isn't awash in talent as it is.

Not to mention the assets you spend on a 3D are assets you can't spend to patch the open wounds up front.

Unless someone drops into our lap, I think the immediate needs are at forward. Try and build at least two scoring lines.

 

[Little Fury]

Passable when healthy? That is exactly my point. I guess we will agree to disagree then. It certainly would be good to add a winger. It should not be their focus though.

25th in the league in GF despite having two players in the top 10 in league scoring, you're g-d right forwards should be their focus.

 

[Draiskull]

They should have done that, I guess they felt like since they were selling off Gretzky like a piece of meat, they at least owed him some input on where he was going.

Granted they couldn't have afforded to keep Yzerman and Oates in the long run anyway.

Looks like EDM got the players they wanted from DET for Gretzky anyway.

Edmonton Oilers acquire	Date	Detroit Red Wings acquire
Adam Graves Petr Klima Joe Murphy Jeff Sharples [TBODY] [/TBODY]	November 2, 1989	Jimmy Carson Kevin McClelland 1991 5th round pick (#100-Brad Layzell) [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ThePhoenixx]

So Puljujarvi/Yamo, a prospect and a 1st round pick? That's pretty steep for a team that isn't awash in talent as it is.

Not to mention the assets you spend on a 3D are assets you can't spend to patch the open wounds up front.

Unless someone drops into our lap, I think the immediate needs are at forward. Try and build at least two scoring lines.

Their first is equal to our second.

A high second, Yamo and a lower end prospect? I make that deal everyday for a true #3 right side dman. I would give a bit more even.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

25th in the league in GF despite having two players in the top 10 in league scoring, you're g-d right forwards should be their focus.

11 goals from all their dmen combined.

Dougie Hamilton, who rarely gets power play time, has more goals than the whole Oiler defense combined.

 

[gordonhught]

Looks like EDM got the players they wanted from DET for Gretzky anyway.

Edmonton Oilers acquire	Date	Detroit Red Wings acquire
Adam Graves Petr Klima Joe Murphy Jeff Sharples [TBODY] [/TBODY]	November 2, 1989	Jimmy Carson Kevin McClelland 1991 5th round pick (#100-Brad Layzell) [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The old days where the Oilers actually won a trade.

 

[joestevens29]

Lucic has still got it. He's had a rough ride. Nice to see him truly having fun again.

Also like Cage. Should keep him around. All three of those players are not scared to go in the corners and dig. Great energy. It must be nice to have Lucic on your line when you are a young rookie who has to go to the boards and battle. I remember the bus stop years..

Cave probably should be bumped to 4th line. Not sure he's a guy that you can bank on being your number 3 for a whole year.

 

[Little Fury]

11 goals from all their dmen combined.

Dougie Hamilton, who rarely gets power play time, has more goals than the whole Oiler defense combined.

What math are you using?

Nurse: 7
Klef: 4
Larsson: 3
Benning: 2
Russell: 2

That's 18 goals.

 

[Connorrhea]

What math are you using?

Nurse: 7
Klef: 4
Larsson: 3
Benning: 2
Russell: 2

That's 18 goals.

What's even more amazing is the Oilers defense has 18 goals combined while the guys who played regularly this year, Lucic, Brodziak, Rieder, JP, Khaira, Rattie have a combined 20!!!! Darnell Nurse should not have more goals than most of our forward group.

Jesus Christ Brad Richardson alone has 16 goals this year on an injury riddle Arizona team....BRAD RICHARDSON!

 

[ThePhoenixx]

What math are you using?

Nurse: 7
Klef: 4
Larsson: 3
Benning: 2
Russell: 2

That's 18 goals.

Oops. Missed Nurse.

Ok, the whole entire d corps has six more goals than Dougie Hamilton. Not that it is really any better. Their D have 89 points. Take away Darnell and it is 57. He is 27th overall.

They ignore the D and grab some wingers then they are once again doomed. Can't win with an AHL defense. You think that after 15 years they would have realized that.

 

[Little Fury]

Oops. Missed Nurse.

Ok, the whole entire d corps has six more goals than Dougie Hamilton. Not that it is really any better. Their D have 89 points. Take away Darnell and it is 57. He is 27th overall.

Yeah D points tend to be a product of the scoring ability of the forwards. That's why the Leafs' D have a combined 149 points, but just 31 goals. Hell, the Sharks' entire D with Burns and Karlsson has as many goals as that of the Oilers, but they have 181 points because they actually have scoring depth up front. It's a two-way street to a large extent, but you could swap our D for San Jose's and I bet Burns and Karlsson would struggle to crack 40 points with this bunch of plugs at forward.

Fix the forwards and the D's point totals will increase.

They ignore the D and grab some wingers then they are once again doomed. Can't win with an AHL defense. You think that after 15 years they would have realized that.

Good thing we don't have an AHL D, then.

Is it a great D? Of course not. It's a below average bunch that could stand to add one more bona fide top 4 guy. Is it the biggest problem? Not by a longshot.

 

[MaxR11]

I know this article was out a couple months ago but it really gives insight into "what's wrong". I don't care what people think of Ference because he's been there and knows way more about this situation than any of us here sitting on our computers. And his overwhelming message is the problem is CULTURE. https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/...s-party-atmosphere-of-2013-15-edmonton-oilers

Here's quotes....

It was a combination of problems, Ference said, including hardcore pressure from the fans and media. “That aspect of feeling, uh, like more so scared to make a mistake and be the whipping boy rather than being bold and taking your chances and having that confidence to try the play. I think some guys might get into that role of just being scared to be the whipping boys… You take less risks. Your urge to win and be bold is less than your urge to not be the whipping boy or stand out. I think that is one aspect.

“I think that the quickness that radio or newspaper or fans jump and attack their own guys is horrible. I think that the (lack of) quickness to defend players within the organization. I remember Jeff Petry or Schultz getting raked over the coals and nobody coming to defend them and just trading them after they’ve beaten them down for months, then trading them. It’s like, ‘God.’ It’s not just for those guys but it’s for other guys on the team, you’re looking at it and saying, ‘They don’t have his back. Are they going to have mine when it’s my turn to be the whipping boy?’”

Next Ference got into a second issue, the lack of commitment of some of the younger Oilers players. “I think the most frustrating part for me as a player — I went in there straight from Boston — was that talk is cheap. I went in and Dallas Eakins is a fantastic coach. There’s another whipping boy who got raked over the coals. There’s a fantastic coach that was dealt just a pure crap hand in a team that would actually listen.

“You had a group of players that talked about how they wanted to make the playoffs, and talked about how sick they were of losing, and then by Game Three after losing 6-1, they’re straight out to the bar to three in the morning, lighting up the night life scene in Edmonton. Like, come on, give me a break. It was to the point where it was ridiculous where the lifestyle was way more important than actually playing the game and making the playoffs. Like I said, talk is cheap.

“Even in practice, I came from a group where you’re practising against guys like (Patrice) Bergeron or (Zdeno) Chara, and you’re going at each other, like game intensity — and that is how you get better. That is how you be a playoff contender. That is how you be a champion. And you try to instil some of those VALUES. We had some other guys who had been on the playoff teams and they had the same frustration. They’d come and practice hard and there was a group of guys there that had like, it was too cool to try hard. Derogatory terms for trying too hard in practice. That’s the CULTURE, right.

1. Ference has said similar things in the past. In February 2017, when the Edmonton Oilers were on a strong run of play, he mentioned he sometimes visited the Oilers dressing room. “To see guys smiling, and just kind of that atmosphere of positivity, it’s really good. The atmosphere in the room had to change — beyond just losing. The vibe and just the attitude towards being a professional had to change, and that did. And Peter (Chiarelli) did that in Boston. He moved guys around that didn’t buy into the atmosphere that he wanted to create which he knows as a winner. And he did the same thing here… This year you’re obviously seeing a step in the right direction with the professionalism of the team, the battle, the way they’re playing on the ice, the way they’re acting in the city or down in the room… Just that culture, I can’t emphasize it enough, how important it is to come into a room and to know that everybody has bought in and everybody is going to be there for each other.”
2. 1. Some will downplay Ference’s characterization but I put a lot of weight in it. There was indeed something wrong with the spirit of those Oilers teams. They had so little fight and so little stick-to-it-iveness in the face of adversity. They never got better. Of course terrible management was to blame, but the young leaders on that team also shared in that failure.

 

[Soundwave]

Ference can go f*** off. He's exactly the type of player the Oilers don't need more of, all talk, can't back up anything up on the ice.

If practising against high end players makes you great magically our D should be at least decent given McDavid probably dummies them 3-4 times a day at practice.

 

[Little Fury]

Andrew Ference is another great example of how this org puts incompetent people in key positions in this org, resulting in failure and poor culture.

The Oilers were a team that was struggling to find success due to not having enough good players and the management team's answer was to bring in a past-his-prime bottom pairing D man and anoint him captain before he had even played a game. Sheer incompetence.

 

[Little Fury]

Ference can go **** off. He's exactly the type of player the Oilers don't need more of, all talk, can't back up anything up on the ice.

If practising against high end players makes you great magically our D should be at least decent given McDavid probably dummies them 3-4 times a day at practice.

The article is actually extremely instructive but it doesn't prove the point the poster thinks it does.

It shows how important good players are (a team with guys like prime chara, Bergeron etc is going to be a good hockey team no matter what the "culture" is). It shows that on-ice success leads to good culture and not the other way around. And of course, as I said above, it is another data point showing the importance of finding the right people for the job.